john curl said:
should I accept or go for the dime... ? 😀
I might accept it - but I cannot figure out what question you are referring to - did I ask a question ? not recently
I never referred to doorbell wire - never use it - not even for doorbells... 😕
🙂
Mikelm, I refer to cheap plastic covered hookup wire, like that used for doorbells. What was your original question again?
John - I guess you meant this:
Some people are convinced that the plastic insulation of signal leads significantly affect the sound even if the send and return leads are not physically connected i.e. air gap between the the plastic...
...can anyone explain this ?
sure it's off topic - no problem. I will do an experiment to check it out and if I can hear any difference between insulated & uninsulated and see what I find. I may just post here for sake of interest but for more discussion ( if anyone wants any ) I will start another thread
But I will use 12 gauge solid core for the test with horrible PVC insulation
mean time CD discrete o/p op amps just went pop ...
so I'm out of here for now
cheers
mike
Some people are convinced that the plastic insulation of signal leads significantly affect the sound even if the send and return leads are not physically connected i.e. air gap between the the plastic...
...can anyone explain this ?
sure it's off topic - no problem. I will do an experiment to check it out and if I can hear any difference between insulated & uninsulated and see what I find. I may just post here for sake of interest but for more discussion ( if anyone wants any ) I will start another thread
But I will use 12 gauge solid core for the test with horrible PVC insulation
mean time CD discrete o/p op amps just went pop ...
so I'm out of here for nowcheers
mike
Mike, why not try the green colored copper clear vinyl wire that got that way from the vinyl coating after a period of time? Now that would be a real test.
estuart said:
Emond,
Did he have your last name? I thought it rang a bell with me. 45 years ago I was working with Philips, I heard this name a lot, I think I even had a tube course from someone with that name. Is that possible? 1965-ish? Did he write a book about tubes?
Jan Didden
Jan, I just read your article in 'Audio Express' on the Mundorf company who makes coils. Very interesting! Maybe some of what you learned could be expressed here.
For the record, 'self healing' caps are pretty standard stuff. Mundorf can't really take credit of for it.
For the record, 'self healing' caps are pretty standard stuff. Mundorf can't really take credit of for it.
Hi Jan,
Being ex-Mundorf product dealer, I'm also very interested in the article,
unfortunately since leaving Australia I've no access to AX magazine for the last few year. 🙁
Hartono
Being ex-Mundorf product dealer, I'm also very interested in the article,
unfortunately since leaving Australia I've no access to AX magazine for the last few year. 🙁
Hartono
John,
cd fixed - phew - nothing serious
If I could find some of this corroded wire I would try it - but I don't think they stock it round here !
I never did see such corroded wire - where did you see it ?
perhaps you live in a humid climate there... but the air con should take care of that
mike
cd fixed - phew - nothing serious
If I could find some of this corroded wire I would try it - but I don't think they stock it round here !
I never did see such corroded wire - where did you see it ?
perhaps you live in a humid climate there... but the air con should take care of that
mike
Hi Bob
your post #741 - I did not think I had said that cables were audible. I agree with your comment; I was surmising on whether the cable plus output coil also caused problems in the amplifier which are audible...
I'd like to summarise what seems to be emerging:
- the effect of the audio cable has little effect in respect of transmission line effects per se, despite the fact that there will be such effects on the line
- this also applies to the output coil
- unless they have cause to upset the amplifier
- the cable may influence sound if it has significant capacitance and/or resistance; in the case of capacitance this may be once again because of interaction with the amplifier; in the case of resistance there may just be some attenuation and power reduction
- the use of electrostatic speakers certainly has an effect on some amplifiers for which a coil may be required to improve or make stable
- coils with electrostatics are really bad news and should be avoided (the coils that is)
- I don't think that the case for the audibility of output coils with ordinary lawn-mower grade cable and ordinary moving-coil speakers has been made unequivocally yet, but it is clear that coils will introduce a slight delay (I've argued before that this delay will only be audible IF it is one of a series of delays such that the sum causes undue roll off) but it is entirely feasible that a turn-off transient (of the sort Graham M has been voicing) may cause amplifiers some trouble in absorbing the stored energy...which becomes audible...
cheers
John
your post #741 - I did not think I had said that cables were audible. I agree with your comment; I was surmising on whether the cable plus output coil also caused problems in the amplifier which are audible...
I'd like to summarise what seems to be emerging:
- the effect of the audio cable has little effect in respect of transmission line effects per se, despite the fact that there will be such effects on the line
- this also applies to the output coil
- unless they have cause to upset the amplifier
- the cable may influence sound if it has significant capacitance and/or resistance; in the case of capacitance this may be once again because of interaction with the amplifier; in the case of resistance there may just be some attenuation and power reduction
- the use of electrostatic speakers certainly has an effect on some amplifiers for which a coil may be required to improve or make stable
- coils with electrostatics are really bad news and should be avoided (the coils that is)
- I don't think that the case for the audibility of output coils with ordinary lawn-mower grade cable and ordinary moving-coil speakers has been made unequivocally yet, but it is clear that coils will introduce a slight delay (I've argued before that this delay will only be audible IF it is one of a series of delays such that the sum causes undue roll off) but it is entirely feasible that a turn-off transient (of the sort Graham M has been voicing) may cause amplifiers some trouble in absorbing the stored energy...which becomes audible...
cheers
John
mikelm, my Mac240, probably through a combination of ancient solder flux and jacket reaction, has internal wiring of a nice, minty-forest colour.
Mikelm, 'everybody' who has been in audio for awhile has some green copper clear vinyl wire. I just spoke to SY on the phone. He has some lying around. This stuff is relatively common to those of us who work with this stuff.
Of course, when it comes new, then it looks OK, but just wait a few months or years. Clear Vinyl is the worst, I am told.
Of course, when it comes new, then it looks OK, but just wait a few months or years. Clear Vinyl is the worst, I am told.
janneman said:
Hi Jan.
No, he was an uncle from mothers side, his name was Gerrit (Chuck) Alma. By 1965 he was already retired. A book? and tube course?, sorry, could be, but I don't know. He was involved with radar (H2S) and tiny tubes for proximity fuses. BTW, he didn't like transistors. Nevertheless, he had given me that box full of (alloyed) transistors, happily not (noisy) point-contact transistors (OC50/51).
Maybe, we have met each other at Philips in 1965. I was working there, for a couple of month, as trainee at the "centraal aplicatie laboratorium".
Cheers,
Well if anyone wants to send me some I will include it in the test - I will also need some identical clean stuff as a reference though - otherwise I will not know what causes what.
RDF - what's the post like from the thermionic past to the mid-west ?
For my contribution I will get 12 gauge solid core insulated and make up two sets of leads one as is and one bare copper with connector block used every foot as spacers
But first I have to put sockets on my speakers - at present they are soldered. Should be able to test next w/e with luck
cheers
mike
RDF - what's the post like from the thermionic past to the mid-west ?
For my contribution I will get 12 gauge solid core insulated and make up two sets of leads one as is and one bare copper with connector block used every foot as spacers
But first I have to put sockets on my speakers - at present they are soldered. Should be able to test next w/e with luck
cheers
mike
estuart said:
I think it should work fine as long as there is no HF funny business or instability created by it. This includes under clipping conditions as well.
Bob
john curl said:
sure - but this discussion has got me curious about the insulation thing so I want to check it out - if only to cross of my list of things to think about...
...and if I can get hold of the corroded stuff I will try that as well .. but I never had cable that get's like that - perhaps because I keep my stuff indoors and not in the garage.
cheers
mike
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