AKSA
This thread started as an analysis of hugh's "conceptual" amplifier and has turned into another runaway offtopic thread about subjectivism vs. science. As you can see from the myriad of random responses from different members, a clear understanding of what many people hear cannot be agreed upon. Hence, I offer the conclusion that subjectivism is not a valid philosophy for measuring the quality of any audio component. the only exception might be musical instrument (ie. guitar) pre's and amplifiers in which people 'prefer' certain voicings, non-flat FR, THD, etc... I believe a home hi-fi system does not fit this definition, it should aspire to be the proverbial "straight wire with gain" and should not 'add' it's own sonic signature (ie. 2nd order Harmonics or whatever is popular this week). It should be clinical, analytical and representitive of the source signal, that's it. period... If you want a 'niceness control' make sure it has a defeat switch, that way I can turn off what YOU think sounds good...
This thread started as an analysis of hugh's "conceptual" amplifier and has turned into another runaway offtopic thread about subjectivism vs. science. As you can see from the myriad of random responses from different members, a clear understanding of what many people hear cannot be agreed upon. Hence, I offer the conclusion that subjectivism is not a valid philosophy for measuring the quality of any audio component. the only exception might be musical instrument (ie. guitar) pre's and amplifiers in which people 'prefer' certain voicings, non-flat FR, THD, etc... I believe a home hi-fi system does not fit this definition, it should aspire to be the proverbial "straight wire with gain" and should not 'add' it's own sonic signature (ie. 2nd order Harmonics or whatever is popular this week). It should be clinical, analytical and representitive of the source signal, that's it. period... If you want a 'niceness control' make sure it has a defeat switch, that way I can turn off what YOU think sounds good...
AKSA
Here's a thought for all the 2nd Harmonic lovers out there, and I say this with all seriousness. Why don't you build the "niceness control" into the low level stage (ie. the preamp) and build a conventional low THD amplifier section, that way you would be able to manipulate and tweak it to your own personal liking or defeat it if you get tired of it? It would be a lot easier design into the small signal stages than the power amplifier, just a thought.
Here's a thought for all the 2nd Harmonic lovers out there, and I say this with all seriousness. Why don't you build the "niceness control" into the low level stage (ie. the preamp) and build a conventional low THD amplifier section, that way you would be able to manipulate and tweak it to your own personal liking or defeat it if you get tired of it? It would be a lot easier design into the small signal stages than the power amplifier, just a thought.
Hi,
With all due repect.....
We cannot ask everyone to agree to the same.......
Niceness controls have never really kicked off, I guess that's another illogical human trait we can't fully address with logic.
Amps are engineered products and will always attract logical scientific people, they will also attract lovers of certain types of sound, we should not expect any less, that is the diversity of nature and choice.
Thanks
Raja
With all due repect.....
We cannot ask everyone to agree to the same.......
Niceness controls have never really kicked off, I guess that's another illogical human trait we can't fully address with logic.
Amps are engineered products and will always attract logical scientific people, they will also attract lovers of certain types of sound, we should not expect any less, that is the diversity of nature and choice.
Thanks
Raja
Hi BLM,
Thank you for your input. You say:
You go on to say that you believe - your opinion - that an amp should be '...a straight wire with gain'.
I would restate this thusly:
As you can see from the myriad of random responses from different members, a clear understanding of what many people perceive cannot be agreed upon. Hence, I offer the conclusion that subjectivism is not a valid philosophy for measuring the objective quality of any audio component.
To continue along this line, I believe it makes good sense to point out that not everyone agrees with this dictum, and that a subjective coloration of recorded music is de rigeur for the music industry - yea, verily, even the classical industry - and that lovers of vinyl greatly value the perceived warmth and depth of their records, quite regardless of what the measurements tell us. Remember that the vast bulk of music lovers are not technocrats, and merely like or dislike what they hear without prejudice.
I'm reminded of Bob Newhart's comment about country music, which I'll restate here with credits:
I could go on and on, but I would posit that designers and sellers of amps, of which I am happily one, are obliged to carefully study their target market and DELIVER WHAT THE MARKET LIKES. To fail to take up this challenge is to go broke. I could be cynical and say that designers deliver what the market is educated to want, which may not be the same thing, but I think it significant that over five decades some of the best engineers in the world have struggled manfully to deliver straight wires with gain and their designs show little correlation with either perceived sonic excellence or documented economic success.
The so-called 'straight wire with gain' is a noble ideal, but it is a purist, almost academic exercise and it is not necessarily, in my opinion (and I'm only one man!) a fruitful path either sonically or economically. Those who pursue it have produced some extraordinary innovation, however, and any designer would be a fool to ignore this progress, most of it in topology. BUT, that said, my commercial design, the AKSA, will deliver 0.045% THD at moderate power into 8R at 20KHz. This is, by most THD standards, a very good result, so it might just be that I'm running with the foxes and the hounds......
I hope by this I have stimulated debate but not incensed other forum members. I will admit to enjoying stirring the pot from time to time, and anyone who chooses to flame me for my heresy is more than welcome to shoot me down. Heck, I might be absolutely wrong, but frankly I doubt it.
Cheers,
Hugh
Thank you for your input. You say:
You go on to say that you believe - your opinion - that an amp should be '...a straight wire with gain'.
I would restate this thusly:
As you can see from the myriad of random responses from different members, a clear understanding of what many people perceive cannot be agreed upon. Hence, I offer the conclusion that subjectivism is not a valid philosophy for measuring the objective quality of any audio component.
To continue along this line, I believe it makes good sense to point out that not everyone agrees with this dictum, and that a subjective coloration of recorded music is de rigeur for the music industry - yea, verily, even the classical industry - and that lovers of vinyl greatly value the perceived warmth and depth of their records, quite regardless of what the measurements tell us. Remember that the vast bulk of music lovers are not technocrats, and merely like or dislike what they hear without prejudice.
I'm reminded of Bob Newhart's comment about country music, which I'll restate here with credits:
I could go on and on, but I would posit that designers and sellers of amps, of which I am happily one, are obliged to carefully study their target market and DELIVER WHAT THE MARKET LIKES. To fail to take up this challenge is to go broke. I could be cynical and say that designers deliver what the market is educated to want, which may not be the same thing, but I think it significant that over five decades some of the best engineers in the world have struggled manfully to deliver straight wires with gain and their designs show little correlation with either perceived sonic excellence or documented economic success.
The so-called 'straight wire with gain' is a noble ideal, but it is a purist, almost academic exercise and it is not necessarily, in my opinion (and I'm only one man!) a fruitful path either sonically or economically. Those who pursue it have produced some extraordinary innovation, however, and any designer would be a fool to ignore this progress, most of it in topology. BUT, that said, my commercial design, the AKSA, will deliver 0.045% THD at moderate power into 8R at 20KHz. This is, by most THD standards, a very good result, so it might just be that I'm running with the foxes and the hounds......
I hope by this I have stimulated debate but not incensed other forum members. I will admit to enjoying stirring the pot from time to time, and anyone who chooses to flame me for my heresy is more than welcome to shoot me down. Heck, I might be absolutely wrong, but frankly I doubt it.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
a perfectly honest, rational and logical statement, there will always be those here who will not accept fully, any posts you make. Due to apprehension of profit makers posting or 'cleverly advertisiing' on this forum, we are ready to pounce on anything we consider 'marketing'.
I guess that's our loss. The above post by Hugh is perfect in my opinion (just my opinion!?!) and must have taken some time to write in order to cover all bases!
BTW I don't have any AKSA products....
But I do appreciate the mans input, philosophy and understanding.
Thanks
Raja
a perfectly honest, rational and logical statement, there will always be those here who will not accept fully, any posts you make. Due to apprehension of profit makers posting or 'cleverly advertisiing' on this forum, we are ready to pounce on anything we consider 'marketing'.
I guess that's our loss. The above post by Hugh is perfect in my opinion (just my opinion!?!) and must have taken some time to write in order to cover all bases!
BTW I don't have any AKSA products....
But I do appreciate the mans input, philosophy and understanding.
Thanks
Raja
Re: AKSA
Not so. You are missing the point. The discussion has been whether single number THD is a relevant measure of what an amplifier sounds like.
I argue that this specification removes far too much context to be relevant. Go one step back -- the THD spectrum -- and you do have a very useful tool in determining how an amplifier sounds. The single THD number is bad science.
Perhaps an analogy will help. Take a rainbow (which is a spectrum). Now collapse the colours of a rainbow into a single colour. What do you get -- some shade of brown (BTW the same color as a descriptive word that describes how valid this metric -- single number THD -- is at predicting sonics)
To have any meaning, THD has to be viewed in at least 2 dimensions (3 is better). The single number is 1 dimensional -- it throws away too much information to be of any value.
dave
bmcevers said:
Not so. You are missing the point. The discussion has been whether single number THD is a relevant measure of what an amplifier sounds like.
I argue that this specification removes far too much context to be relevant. Go one step back -- the THD spectrum -- and you do have a very useful tool in determining how an amplifier sounds. The single THD number is bad science.
Perhaps an analogy will help. Take a rainbow (which is a spectrum). Now collapse the colours of a rainbow into a single colour. What do you get -- some shade of brown (BTW the same color as a descriptive word that describes how valid this metric -- single number THD -- is at predicting sonics)
To have any meaning, THD has to be viewed in at least 2 dimensions (3 is better). The single number is 1 dimensional -- it throws away too much information to be of any value.
dave
MikeB said:
Hello Mike,
I certainly can. Here is the RightMark result for loopback mode, 16bit/96kHz:
http://web.telecom.cz/macura/spectra/USB SB Live! 24bit external.htm
And I am attaching a measurement of the power amp by the same card, but external generator (6kHz, so the test is more severe compared to 1kHz). Curls on the baseline are measurement method principle problem.
Regards, Pavel
Attachments
The result of 16bit/48kHz loopback mode for the same card is here:
http://www.audiocity.cz/testy/Creat...xternal/Creative SB Live! 24-bit External.htm
http://www.audiocity.cz/testy/Creat...xternal/Creative SB Live! 24-bit External.htm
AKSA
I will make one more off topic rebuttal and then I'll retire, since it doesn't look like we are going to get any technical background into Hugh's amp, which is fine. All that I have read is 'How' it sounds and not the better question of 'why'.
Planet 10, I mean no personal offense to you but I have to say in all honesty that you don't really grasp the fundamental understanding of THD measurements and what they are, your color spectrum analogy has no valid comparison with audio fundamentals and their corresponding harmonics, I humbly suggest you do a little more research.
Hugh, I do offer what I have to say on this forum as "my opinion" I realize that there are many valid ways to analyze a design, it is "my opinion" that when so many people have different sense of what sounds good that there isn't enough common ground (if you will) to make any valid points.
THD, signal to noise, etc.. at least have the quality of being REPEATABLE, something that people can quantify, they can tell if they are heading in a positive or negative direction. How can you improve subjectively?? What defines improvement or degradation???
Again I do not mean to offend I am only searching for the truth, whatever that may be. I realize different people have different tastes and that brings diversity into the world which is generally a good thing, thanks for letting me put in my two cents.
goodnight,
I will make one more off topic rebuttal and then I'll retire, since it doesn't look like we are going to get any technical background into Hugh's amp, which is fine. All that I have read is 'How' it sounds and not the better question of 'why'.
Planet 10, I mean no personal offense to you but I have to say in all honesty that you don't really grasp the fundamental understanding of THD measurements and what they are, your color spectrum analogy has no valid comparison with audio fundamentals and their corresponding harmonics, I humbly suggest you do a little more research.
Hugh, I do offer what I have to say on this forum as "my opinion" I realize that there are many valid ways to analyze a design, it is "my opinion" that when so many people have different sense of what sounds good that there isn't enough common ground (if you will) to make any valid points.
THD, signal to noise, etc.. at least have the quality of being REPEATABLE, something that people can quantify, they can tell if they are heading in a positive or negative direction. How can you improve subjectively?? What defines improvement or degradation???
Again I do not mean to offend I am only searching for the truth, whatever that may be. I realize different people have different tastes and that brings diversity into the world which is generally a good thing, thanks for letting me put in my two cents.
goodnight,
Hi BLM,
I did not realize you wanted technical insights into my design. OTOH, I'm not disposed in a public forum to reveal them; if you want the details, then you have only to purchase the kit and it's all supplied. However, a few general comments.
The voltage amplifier must be brutally fast, a 100MHz transistor with less than 3pF interelectrode capacitance is required.
Feedback factor should be high. I use more than 60dB. This requires use of very fast semis to keep spurious high order artefact production low.
Output stage must have special topology and component choices to minimize crossover artefacts, which are highly audible. I use the double emitter follower with charge suckout as described by Doug Self.
The feedback stage uses two AC paths; one through the shunt cap from the voltage divide function, and another direct from the output. This seems to minimize phase shift in this network, and permits use of a smaller electrolytic.
Lag compensation and phase lead are both used. The capacitor type is important, and the dimension is critical. Get it wrong and the amp sounds very ordinary. Get it right and you hit the sweet spot.
The result of this attention to detail is a genuinely improved amplifier. You would only achieve this after a lot of listening and testing.
Hope this is in some small way helpful!
Cheers,
Hugh
I did not realize you wanted technical insights into my design. OTOH, I'm not disposed in a public forum to reveal them; if you want the details, then you have only to purchase the kit and it's all supplied. However, a few general comments.
The voltage amplifier must be brutally fast, a 100MHz transistor with less than 3pF interelectrode capacitance is required.
Feedback factor should be high. I use more than 60dB. This requires use of very fast semis to keep spurious high order artefact production low.
Output stage must have special topology and component choices to minimize crossover artefacts, which are highly audible. I use the double emitter follower with charge suckout as described by Doug Self.
The feedback stage uses two AC paths; one through the shunt cap from the voltage divide function, and another direct from the output. This seems to minimize phase shift in this network, and permits use of a smaller electrolytic.
Lag compensation and phase lead are both used. The capacitor type is important, and the dimension is critical. Get it wrong and the amp sounds very ordinary. Get it right and you hit the sweet spot.
The result of this attention to detail is a genuinely improved amplifier. You would only achieve this after a lot of listening and testing.
Hope this is in some small way helpful!
Cheers,
Hugh
Even the ones that believe the specifications can be good informs related the sound
produced, when go to decide to buy something, because of practical reasons, enter shops to listen and evaluate sound using ears...the final and decisive instrument, produced by God, and connected to subjectivism of the person that will evaluate.
Only feel guys could measure completely some equipment, before decide to construct/buy...so.... real thing that happens, is evaluate by ears.
Instruments are indication of quality,not guarantee of sonic reproduction quality... they serve as a reference that can say:
"It is probable that this equipment sound good, as it is precise"...if you forget that speaker exist..the damn trash, the air pump!!!.
Specifications is usefull to EE competition, to see the one can make usefull 100 kilohertz sound best...maybe marketing their amplifier to but...or other animal that have radar, sonar or other high frequency sensor...it serve to EE competition only.... do not show sonic performance, because depends of speaker matching, speaker equalization, the environment, the sound source and i believe (belief not science) the amplifier to speaker matching, as you have EMF.
There are thousands of units sold.... more than 1K as i could have inform last year...well, may be some AKSA near you...try a visit, ask the one to show you....but go without negative intention...because this way...some guys could kill Christ in a cross...just beeing negative, jellows......the one said that was God.
Hugh is not God...he is simple the King!...the one that could produce one amplifier model that could produce better sound than JLH...when everybody is trying to match or even produce better than JLH, as Graham also did.
Ears, human ears, in special your own pair of ears, the more precise "metering system" you can have, can tell you if you feel good listening or not....because only have the knowledge that distorts nothing, that the waveshape is perfect will not produce you the guarantee to feel good listening.... there are speakers too and many other things to take into acount.... also your own mood...because nervous!...you will prefer the sound of a machine gun cutting someone at half!...and not a sound amplifier.
I will repeat again, and will do it the number of times will be needed....i have constructed all my life long amplifiers, and no one could match or even be better than this AKSA-55, reason why there are thousands of units sold, and you could never have the schematics, so satisfied the customers are, that decide to help Hugh to keep his secret, as he deserve to explore his developed amplifier...... observe that no one betrayed Hugh!...you cannot have the last 55 upgrade.... all you can have is to obtain, from Russian sites, something was a single step in Hugh amplifier evolution...when he was starting to research and first results appearing....but more modern upgrades turn amplifier different and better.
The trebles are beautifull boys....keep your instruments and go to measure the 55...ahahahaha!....you will see the "value" of instruments in comparison with audio reproduction reality....you will see that it will triangulate a 20 Kilohertz sinusoidal waveform.
And you will listen to magnificent trebles..... observe that our methods and measurement beliefs, also the rules, the old Institute of High Fidelity (IHF) and more modern ones are completelly stupid...for instance... we cannot listen 20 kilohertz..so.... what's the significance, what's the value to someone obtain distortions, waveforms, phase errors or anything related that frequency?......boys, atention, there are some measurements that do not make any sense.
I repeat...speaker will take care to produce much more distortion..... it is not needed to polish any cannon ball.... no one will observe the cannon ball beauty!!!...it will cross the air too much fast, and the intention is not pretty!!!...it is an absurd to think about the cannon ball beauty, also 20 kilohertz wave shape...this is completelly non sense!
better to put the feet over the ground.... the mother earth and start to adapt the hi measurable science to human characteristics, to start to study some Psychology, perception is wonderfull, you will see how much the brain adjust, you will see how much the brain include and exclude informations, you will understand why MP3 are so good as wave or PCM, well, will open you mind...observe the ones that have studied...Eva for instance..see the positions, how ahead she is related the average of EE guys on forum...she studied....John Curl too, and many others are taking care of that.
The first step to broke the chains that arrest some guys, against some more flexible and advanced point of view, is when you perceive that some amplifiers, even distorting the wave shape, and producing harmonics can sound fine (Pass).... the next step is to produce Blamelless philosophie...and perceive that exclusion of some kind of distortion, do not produce wonderfull sound...those things, turning reality to you, will also let you believe that instruments are wonderfull reference...also something that is better than language, as can be understood by whole world of EE and some advanced audiophiles....reference, and easy communications of probability of good sonic performance...not guarantee...... the warranty or guarantee, do not know how to write in English...eu falo portugues pipocas!, can be produced by humans....and this is a little different from World place compared to another world place...because culture...so, the amplifier good response to percusion.... high slew rate , hi damping, will be better in my culture...people will consider the one better, as my culture is percursive.... drums...things beeing hitted is our preference.... came from Africans, our ancestors if you do not apreciate their skin...wide whole world ancestors they were...proved by your measurement science of instruments....yeah!
Now may be someone, maybe two to discuss..... forgeting the instruments...because your own beliefs..... oh!...subjective ideas!!! on you man?
regards,
Carlos
produced, when go to decide to buy something, because of practical reasons, enter shops to listen and evaluate sound using ears...the final and decisive instrument, produced by God, and connected to subjectivism of the person that will evaluate.
Only feel guys could measure completely some equipment, before decide to construct/buy...so.... real thing that happens, is evaluate by ears.
Instruments are indication of quality,not guarantee of sonic reproduction quality... they serve as a reference that can say:
"It is probable that this equipment sound good, as it is precise"...if you forget that speaker exist..the damn trash, the air pump!!!.
Specifications is usefull to EE competition, to see the one can make usefull 100 kilohertz sound best...maybe marketing their amplifier to but...or other animal that have radar, sonar or other high frequency sensor...it serve to EE competition only.... do not show sonic performance, because depends of speaker matching, speaker equalization, the environment, the sound source and i believe (belief not science) the amplifier to speaker matching, as you have EMF.
There are thousands of units sold.... more than 1K as i could have inform last year...well, may be some AKSA near you...try a visit, ask the one to show you....but go without negative intention...because this way...some guys could kill Christ in a cross...just beeing negative, jellows......the one said that was God.
Hugh is not God...he is simple the King!...the one that could produce one amplifier model that could produce better sound than JLH...when everybody is trying to match or even produce better than JLH, as Graham also did.
Ears, human ears, in special your own pair of ears, the more precise "metering system" you can have, can tell you if you feel good listening or not....because only have the knowledge that distorts nothing, that the waveshape is perfect will not produce you the guarantee to feel good listening.... there are speakers too and many other things to take into acount.... also your own mood...because nervous!...you will prefer the sound of a machine gun cutting someone at half!...and not a sound amplifier.
I will repeat again, and will do it the number of times will be needed....i have constructed all my life long amplifiers, and no one could match or even be better than this AKSA-55, reason why there are thousands of units sold, and you could never have the schematics, so satisfied the customers are, that decide to help Hugh to keep his secret, as he deserve to explore his developed amplifier...... observe that no one betrayed Hugh!...you cannot have the last 55 upgrade.... all you can have is to obtain, from Russian sites, something was a single step in Hugh amplifier evolution...when he was starting to research and first results appearing....but more modern upgrades turn amplifier different and better.
The trebles are beautifull boys....keep your instruments and go to measure the 55...ahahahaha!....you will see the "value" of instruments in comparison with audio reproduction reality....you will see that it will triangulate a 20 Kilohertz sinusoidal waveform.
And you will listen to magnificent trebles..... observe that our methods and measurement beliefs, also the rules, the old Institute of High Fidelity (IHF) and more modern ones are completelly stupid...for instance... we cannot listen 20 kilohertz..so.... what's the significance, what's the value to someone obtain distortions, waveforms, phase errors or anything related that frequency?......boys, atention, there are some measurements that do not make any sense.
I repeat...speaker will take care to produce much more distortion..... it is not needed to polish any cannon ball.... no one will observe the cannon ball beauty!!!...it will cross the air too much fast, and the intention is not pretty!!!...it is an absurd to think about the cannon ball beauty, also 20 kilohertz wave shape...this is completelly non sense!
better to put the feet over the ground.... the mother earth and start to adapt the hi measurable science to human characteristics, to start to study some Psychology, perception is wonderfull, you will see how much the brain adjust, you will see how much the brain include and exclude informations, you will understand why MP3 are so good as wave or PCM, well, will open you mind...observe the ones that have studied...Eva for instance..see the positions, how ahead she is related the average of EE guys on forum...she studied....John Curl too, and many others are taking care of that.
The first step to broke the chains that arrest some guys, against some more flexible and advanced point of view, is when you perceive that some amplifiers, even distorting the wave shape, and producing harmonics can sound fine (Pass).... the next step is to produce Blamelless philosophie...and perceive that exclusion of some kind of distortion, do not produce wonderfull sound...those things, turning reality to you, will also let you believe that instruments are wonderfull reference...also something that is better than language, as can be understood by whole world of EE and some advanced audiophiles....reference, and easy communications of probability of good sonic performance...not guarantee...... the warranty or guarantee, do not know how to write in English...eu falo portugues pipocas!, can be produced by humans....and this is a little different from World place compared to another world place...because culture...so, the amplifier good response to percusion.... high slew rate , hi damping, will be better in my culture...people will consider the one better, as my culture is percursive.... drums...things beeing hitted is our preference.... came from Africans, our ancestors if you do not apreciate their skin...wide whole world ancestors they were...proved by your measurement science of instruments....yeah!
Now may be someone, maybe two to discuss..... forgeting the instruments...because your own beliefs..... oh!...subjective ideas!!! on you man?
regards,
Carlos
AKSA
Hugh,
Thanks for the response, it's good to see we are back on topic.
I appreciate your insight, and I respect your wishes of keeping your design details private, we all must make a living, that is understandable. I also appreciate the technical info you have given, I will take some time to digest your and post and give an appropriate response but I must get some rest as it has been a very long day. Have a great day ( or night ) and I hope I will have the opportunity to join this thread later this weekend,
goodnight
Hugh,
Thanks for the response, it's good to see we are back on topic.
I appreciate your insight, and I respect your wishes of keeping your design details private, we all must make a living, that is understandable. I also appreciate the technical info you have given, I will take some time to digest your and post and give an appropriate response but I must get some rest as it has been a very long day. Have a great day ( or night ) and I hope I will have the opportunity to join this thread later this weekend,
goodnight
Carlos,
The nature and spectrum of distortion of the speaker is very different from that of electronics. That's why you are able to distinguish even small dynamic spectrum changes by the speaker. Off course different speaker sounds different. That's sure, but not the case now. The question is if you want to build an amplifier or a musical instrument. I like to build amplifiers, and do not like persuading to build a musical instrument. In fact an amplifier - musical instrument is totally unmusical, as it creates disharmonic components from complex music signal.
Everybody has ears and can listen, but not everybody is a circuit designer, who listens as well. Long distance argueing about wonderfull sound is good absolutely for nothing, as there is no chance to compare different designs under same and correct conditions (listening conditions).
The nature and spectrum of distortion of the speaker is very different from that of electronics. That's why you are able to distinguish even small dynamic spectrum changes by the speaker. Off course different speaker sounds different. That's sure, but not the case now. The question is if you want to build an amplifier or a musical instrument. I like to build amplifiers, and do not like persuading to build a musical instrument. In fact an amplifier - musical instrument is totally unmusical, as it creates disharmonic components from complex music signal.
Everybody has ears and can listen, but not everybody is a circuit designer, who listens as well. Long distance argueing about wonderfull sound is good absolutely for nothing, as there is no chance to compare different designs under same and correct conditions (listening conditions).
Destroyer X
Carlos,
you are so eloquant, I visualize you as an artist ( painter), you should write for stereophile or some other hi-fi rag, I think you definitely missed your calling...lol..have a great weekend...
Carlos,
you are so eloquant, I visualize you as an artist ( painter), you should write for stereophile or some other hi-fi rag, I think you definitely missed your calling...lol..have a great weekend...
BMcevers, thank you very much, you made my day, as i decide to open my big mouth
And very afraid to loose friends, as my beliefs and experience, is really opposite related many guys.
I study Psychology....and also electronics in technical level, not EE, and all life constructing and evaluating amplifiers in a A to B comparison form...i developed some method, referenced in The Audio Enciclopedia my mother gave me...precious book, two enormous 1200 page books, explaining all, and teaching me spanish!
I had a book culture, every word i learn, every measurement method, all those Klipchorn, Isobaric Chamber, Cuneiform material.... i know everything...but not deeply.... book that turns daily nigth readings...some Magazine culture...very interesting to exibition..to show myself...but really not deep...but i can use incredible words capable even to confuse Mikeks...the king or those things. (do not tell the guys this secret!...ahahahhaa!)...but could never understand what is "Sin embargo"
PMA, my dear, i can understand you...i know that the EE know how can produce a much better A to B, instruments monitored evaluation....not really evaluation..."comparison" with people listening too...the needed marriage of instruments and subjective evaluation....good this one.
I believe in EE value, my doubts are in the evaluation methods only...excessive values atributed to instruments...when no instrument will buy nothing!...so...better to think in humans.
I could understand you...not entirelly PMA.... but i have strong respect related your person...and i feel afraid when i post my beliefs, as may hit someone so experienced like you...and this is not fair with you.
The marriage of Instruments and hearing...i think this will be the perfect solution, also.... the chance to learn the limits of each one.
Japanese always evaluate in group.... when finished, they go to instruments to see what damned waveshape produce so beautifull flute sound!!!... i worked for Sony and i presenced that...not one told me!...i saw that!.....Atsugi Plant, Tokio, Japan
Their culture.... many thousand years.... are much more evoluted and best than mine..... those Asian are evoluted in medicine too.... despite those ancient beliefs they keep as tradition, but they really do not believe in Insects as GODs!...only keeping ancestor tradition...reason for parties and to share ancient history.
Well....peace PMA.....as i think you are a great guy.... but sometimes we do not agree, and this is a little annoying for us.
regards,
Carlos
And very afraid to loose friends, as my beliefs and experience, is really opposite related many guys.
I study Psychology....and also electronics in technical level, not EE, and all life constructing and evaluating amplifiers in a A to B comparison form...i developed some method, referenced in The Audio Enciclopedia my mother gave me...precious book, two enormous 1200 page books, explaining all, and teaching me spanish!
I had a book culture, every word i learn, every measurement method, all those Klipchorn, Isobaric Chamber, Cuneiform material.... i know everything...but not deeply.... book that turns daily nigth readings...some Magazine culture...very interesting to exibition..to show myself...but really not deep...but i can use incredible words capable even to confuse Mikeks...the king or those things. (do not tell the guys this secret!...ahahahhaa!)...but could never understand what is "Sin embargo"
PMA, my dear, i can understand you...i know that the EE know how can produce a much better A to B, instruments monitored evaluation....not really evaluation..."comparison" with people listening too...the needed marriage of instruments and subjective evaluation....good this one.
I believe in EE value, my doubts are in the evaluation methods only...excessive values atributed to instruments...when no instrument will buy nothing!...so...better to think in humans.
I could understand you...not entirelly PMA.... but i have strong respect related your person...and i feel afraid when i post my beliefs, as may hit someone so experienced like you...and this is not fair with you.
The marriage of Instruments and hearing...i think this will be the perfect solution, also.... the chance to learn the limits of each one.
Japanese always evaluate in group.... when finished, they go to instruments to see what damned waveshape produce so beautifull flute sound!!!... i worked for Sony and i presenced that...not one told me!...i saw that!.....Atsugi Plant, Tokio, Japan
Their culture.... many thousand years.... are much more evoluted and best than mine..... those Asian are evoluted in medicine too.... despite those ancient beliefs they keep as tradition, but they really do not believe in Insects as GODs!...only keeping ancestor tradition...reason for parties and to share ancient history.
Well....peace PMA.....as i think you are a great guy.... but sometimes we do not agree, and this is a little annoying for us.
regards,
Carlos
Re: Even the ones that believe the specifications can be good informs related the sou
Sorry it sounds so Halojoy like........
But that is meant as a compliment............
I must be a diabolic artist using only my ears
Yet my clock is well received. Using no measuring equipment at all.
😎Or preamp or DAC........
Back to my GFs.
Hahahahahaaaaa Carlos you put it so eloquently.........destroyer X said:
Sorry it sounds so Halojoy like........
But that is meant as a compliment............I must be a diabolic artist using only my ears
Yet my clock is well received. Using no measuring equipment at all.
😎Or preamp or DAC........
Back to my GFs.
Re: AKSA
Reminds me of the joke about the drunk looking for his lost keys under the lamp post... he is never going to find them because that isn't where he lost them, but it is where the light is.
dave
bmcevers said:
Reminds me of the joke about the drunk looking for his lost keys under the lamp post... he is never going to find them because that isn't where he lost them, but it is where the light is.
dave
the drunks I have seen all put their fingers in the air to tell them where their keys are: that way, they usually end up in different ditches across town.
Halojoy is alive, and his spirit is atractive to the dark shadows ones
They came from the shadows
To feed their souls
With halojoy esplendorous brigth.
They came from the shadows
To feed their souls
With halojoy esplendorous brigth.
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