I was just making up a set of short speaker test cables. I had a spool of CL rated 16 gauge "audio speaker cable" I got probably from Amazon, don't remember, to run my HT speakers. Nothing special. Well really nothing special as I just discovered, it is ALUMINUM WIRE, coper clad strands. OK, the box did not say it was copper, or say it was aluminum. But, it may be physically 16 gauge stranded, but not electrical. Kind of pushing the limits!
I run my whole home on a #2 Aluminum feeder wire. The Neutral is partly steel.
Pick your Aluminum one gauge larger than you need in Copper. A "short #16" is probably overkill already.
Terminate carefully. CCA may be OK indoors for years. Serious Al termination supplies (NoAlOx, brush, AL-rated clamps) are in the electric aisle in the home store.
At 500 feet, I can feel the Ohms in my feeder (especially the Neutral), but it's not worth the very high cost to re-run the feeder.
Remember many tweet-speakers are Aluminum inside.
Yes, Al wire is lighter than Cu for the same conductivity, but I'm sure in car sound it is about wire FATNESS versus cost. Fat amps and fat caps deserve fat wires. #00 Copper is wicked expensive ($4/foot), #00 Al is just as eye-impressive at much less cost.
Pick your Aluminum one gauge larger than you need in Copper. A "short #16" is probably overkill already.
Terminate carefully. CCA may be OK indoors for years. Serious Al termination supplies (NoAlOx, brush, AL-rated clamps) are in the electric aisle in the home store.
At 500 feet, I can feel the Ohms in my feeder (especially the Neutral), but it's not worth the very high cost to re-run the feeder.
Remember many tweet-speakers are Aluminum inside.
Yes, Al wire is lighter than Cu for the same conductivity, but I'm sure in car sound it is about wire FATNESS versus cost. Fat amps and fat caps deserve fat wires. #00 Copper is wicked expensive ($4/foot), #00 Al is just as eye-impressive at much less cost.
Not for audio. Basic myth.
Yes, most entrance cable is aluminum. Clearly marked, covered by code. Current rating is also irrelevant for speakers or 28 gauge would be just fine. That is totally irrelevant to what I am talking about. Not marked CCA.
BTW, even with CU-AL rated fixtures and no-lox, aluminum house wire is still dangerous due to it not returning to the original dimension when warm and extruded, and still subject to sloppy install causing a tiny nick in the wire which will work harden with thermal cycles and eventually fail. FWIW, I grew up in a house where the second story was aluminum. Several houses burned down and at least one had been pigtailed as was permissible then.
I am talking about a product that is misleading. It's cost was such that it should have been copper.
BTW, you can solder copper clad,
I’ve gotten to where I treat amazon like I would aliexpress, if I were to shop there.
Their technical products and descriptions are woefully lacking, and often, vendors will capitalize upon that.
A few years ago I was looking for a thermostat for my car on there, they listed parts with no application, and no part number, how awesome is that?
Their technical products and descriptions are woefully lacking, and often, vendors will capitalize upon that.
A few years ago I was looking for a thermostat for my car on there, they listed parts with no application, and no part number, how awesome is that?
Amazon doesn't do any product descriptions. When you want to sell there, you have to upload the tech description, price, whatever. Nobody checks if it's true or not.
Jan
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Ships by: Amazon
Sold by: Amazon
Around that time they’d been hiring people to sort that part of the business out, around ten years ago, so hopefully that has improved in that time.
Thread moved to The LoungeAmazon started doing 3rd party book selling in the (late?) 1990s. Nowadays (in recent years, since I don't know when), sellers can send their stock to Amazon and have it "fulfilled by Amazon" and the seller gets paid when the item is sold, and the buyer gets the fast shipping from an Amazon warehouse. "Shipped by" and "sold by" don't mean Amazon has checked anything concerning the actual product or its description. I imagine they rely on customer feedback (after things are sold) to deal with problems.
Amazon DOES have standards for used books, but if it's from (and of course intentionally taken out of circulation by the library, usually has a "withdrawn" stamp somewhere) a public library it's okay, but hopefully described as such. Libraries often have book sales where such books and donated books are sold for cheap, maybe one or two dollars each.
And I'm of course "not defending, just trying to explain to my understanding." I've sold a few books through Amazon off and on over the last 15 years or so.
Aluminum is now OUTLAWED by Code in much of US for wiring for new homes, and many "mainline" insurance companies will not provide homeowners insurance or fire insurance if they are aware of aluminum wiring. It has been reported in several different new sources about the substantial cost needed for homeowners who bought houses wired in the 60s - when aluminum was allowed - to have to run new copper cables to get insurance.
While YMMV, I urge everyone to check your local governmental building authorities before thinking about using aluminum cables. Your electricians may, in fact refuse to do business with you if you insist on aluminum.
On the main subject of this thread, I have decided on following three ironclad principles/rules when buying on Amazon:
1. NEVER buy anything from a manufacturer that is not legiitimate and that I have never heard of.
2. Carefully peruse the item descriptions, and make sure EVERY parameter of interest is expressly specified (or get confirmation by e-mail on a parameter using Amazon's "Contact the Seller" option. SAVE the entire webpage description and the Seller's response. If the Seller's response does not directly answer the questions, follow up until you get a clear and express statement, or move on. This applies even to well-known manufacturers of consumer goods like Kohler, American Standard.
3. For electronic parts, use Mouser or DigiKey's resources to download the spec sheets or various kinds, and carefully review them for each parameter of interest.
In general, the thrill of getting a "bargain" is usually replaced by a sense of "being had," assuming that you know you've been had. Use in point: I was looking for terminal blocks. Most descriptions from non-name sellers did not specify pin and contact material. I do give credit to one who stated that the pin was made of steel. Needless to say, I did not purchase any of those terminal blocks and now have a legit company's terminal block (Phoenix) in my Mouser BOM.
1. NEVER buy anything from a manufacturer that is not legiitimate and that I have never heard of.
2. Carefully peruse the item descriptions, and make sure EVERY parameter of interest is expressly specified (or get confirmation by e-mail on a parameter using Amazon's "Contact the Seller" option. SAVE the entire webpage description and the Seller's response. If the Seller's response does not directly answer the questions, follow up until you get a clear and express statement, or move on. This applies even to well-known manufacturers of consumer goods like Kohler, American Standard.
3. For electronic parts, use Mouser or DigiKey's resources to download the spec sheets or various kinds, and carefully review them for each parameter of interest.
In general, the thrill of getting a "bargain" is usually replaced by a sense of "being had," assuming that you know you've been had. Use in point: I was looking for terminal blocks. Most descriptions from non-name sellers did not specify pin and contact material. I do give credit to one who stated that the pin was made of steel. Needless to say, I did not purchase any of those terminal blocks and now have a legit company's terminal block (Phoenix) in my Mouser BOM.
On the legal angle, as a retired government atty who studied consumer law and contracts in law school and rarely used it thereafter, I think that I can say three things:
1. Fraud is not your first legal theory to be invoked, as it is much more difficult to meet the legal elements of fraud. Contract law and consumer law principles (including implied warranties of merchantability and express warranties, and strict liability) are your first friends.
2. If a particular parameter is not specified, then it is much more difficult to argue that a contract is invalid.
3. You need to determine what State law applies to your situation (usually not Federal), and then determine if the elements of State law are met. Buying on Amazon, I think you need to look at Amazon's policies and I'd bet they are not consumer friendly. I personally have tried to argue with Amazon on an item not delivered, and even though I reached an agreement over chat with Amazon Customer Service Rep, I was still being charged for the item. I finally gave up as the $14 cost was not worth further hassle.
Bottom line, IMO, do not buy electronic parts on Amazon. In US, buy from Digikey, Mouser, Newark, Allied, Markertek, as well as from small vendors like Michael Percy and Handmade Electronics. Stick to legit manufacturers and businesses.
1. Fraud is not your first legal theory to be invoked, as it is much more difficult to meet the legal elements of fraud. Contract law and consumer law principles (including implied warranties of merchantability and express warranties, and strict liability) are your first friends.
2. If a particular parameter is not specified, then it is much more difficult to argue that a contract is invalid.
3. You need to determine what State law applies to your situation (usually not Federal), and then determine if the elements of State law are met. Buying on Amazon, I think you need to look at Amazon's policies and I'd bet they are not consumer friendly. I personally have tried to argue with Amazon on an item not delivered, and even though I reached an agreement over chat with Amazon Customer Service Rep, I was still being charged for the item. I finally gave up as the $14 cost was not worth further hassle.
Bottom line, IMO, do not buy electronic parts on Amazon. In US, buy from Digikey, Mouser, Newark, Allied, Markertek, as well as from small vendors like Michael Percy and Handmade Electronics. Stick to legit manufacturers and businesses.
My Linear Audio Volumes are available at Amazon, so I am familiar with the process. Amazon doesn't concern itself with what I offer, beyond checking it has a valid ISBN and that the copyright is respected. If I don't have an ISBN, they will give me one. Everything else I have to do, upload the contents, the cover, the description, authors, format, etc.
Then I set a sales price and Amazon tells me how much of that they want. That's it.
When someone orders a Volume, Amazon prints it and ships it, and send me the royalties at the end of each month.
Note that when I say 'Amazon does this' or that, I am not talking to a human at any stage unless there's a problem the automated system cannot solve.
Welcome to a brave new world.
Jan
