Wintermute:
I would say that if your bracing is no more than four inches apart, and is crossbraced to the opposite wall, then you can make a cheap box into a heck of a good box.
What you do with that good box is up to you.
So I would say that good bracing is more than just a palliative to make a poor box somewhat satisfactory. I think good bracing and sealing can make a poor box into a good box.
Of couse, the people who buy these White Van speakers don't know how cheaply made they are, and I would never recommend anyone buy them unless they knew the score. You won't be buying a decent speaker. You'll be buying a project.
I would say that if your bracing is no more than four inches apart, and is crossbraced to the opposite wall, then you can make a cheap box into a heck of a good box.
What you do with that good box is up to you.
So I would say that good bracing is more than just a palliative to make a poor box somewhat satisfactory. I think good bracing and sealing can make a poor box into a good box.
Of couse, the people who buy these White Van speakers don't know how cheaply made they are, and I would never recommend anyone buy them unless they knew the score. You won't be buying a decent speaker. You'll be buying a project.
By the time they have put in the effort and the money to upgrade the pair of WVS's, our victim might as well have bought a pair of little satellites. The Creative Soundworks speakers sound better and would be less effort and money! To rephrase, polishing the turd won't make the stink go away.
You guys keep starting with the $150 like the speakers are a good deal for that price. Waaaayyyy wrong. I have a pair of Tannoy Proto-Js that I got for Cdn$225 (for the pair). Even at the good exchange rates of today, that's still about US$175. Let me tell you, regardless of price, they are better than the baby Paradigms, the little Missions and the mini PSBs. I think we can all agree that the WVS's are crappier than them all. What our "victims" need is for Bose to give them a push/pull/drag trade-in offer for a bottom-line Series 201.
🙂ensen.
You guys keep starting with the $150 like the speakers are a good deal for that price. Waaaayyyy wrong. I have a pair of Tannoy Proto-Js that I got for Cdn$225 (for the pair). Even at the good exchange rates of today, that's still about US$175. Let me tell you, regardless of price, they are better than the baby Paradigms, the little Missions and the mini PSBs. I think we can all agree that the WVS's are crappier than them all. What our "victims" need is for Bose to give them a push/pull/drag trade-in offer for a bottom-line Series 201.
🙂ensen.
My 2 cents is much along the following lines:
With "white van" speakers the external appearance is good, the box build quality is poor, the crossover quality is poor and the driver quality is poor.
To be sure, bracing and lining the box, replacing the drivers with better ones and re-designing the crossover will give you a better product.
Both the drivers and XO definitely will require an upgrade and the use of multpiple large woofers will quickly show up the limitations of the box so that's gotta go too.
A newbie to diy designing a 3 or 4 way will be hard pressed to get a great result. For my money. the best route would be to cut the losses and make a good 2 way.
I'm not sure that it's financially worthwhile to attempt to rescure the WV speaker.
All comments gratefully accepted.
drew
With "white van" speakers the external appearance is good, the box build quality is poor, the crossover quality is poor and the driver quality is poor.
To be sure, bracing and lining the box, replacing the drivers with better ones and re-designing the crossover will give you a better product.
Both the drivers and XO definitely will require an upgrade and the use of multpiple large woofers will quickly show up the limitations of the box so that's gotta go too.
A newbie to diy designing a 3 or 4 way will be hard pressed to get a great result. For my money. the best route would be to cut the losses and make a good 2 way.
I'm not sure that it's financially worthwhile to attempt to rescure the WV speaker.
All comments gratefully accepted.
drew
I can't believe this discussion is actually taking place.
Why even consider buying such low-end speakers and then throwing more time and money at them in the hope that they might actually sound ok? What do you do when they still sound crap? they have no re-sale value. Why don't you just set fire to your $200 and save yourselves the hassle.
Wouldn't a pair of low cost branded (how about a pair of Mission M71i for the equivalent of $80) or second-hand speakers be a much better proposition.
Why even consider buying such low-end speakers and then throwing more time and money at them in the hope that they might actually sound ok? What do you do when they still sound crap? they have no re-sale value. Why don't you just set fire to your $200 and save yourselves the hassle.
Wouldn't a pair of low cost branded (how about a pair of Mission M71i for the equivalent of $80) or second-hand speakers be a much better proposition.
Hi Richard,
I think the original intent was to help those poor souls that had already wasted their money on the speakers, not to suggest that people buy them at a bargain price and then bolster them up..... Yes we are probably flogging a dead horse, but I'm the sort of person that likes tweaking things to get more out of them, so I guess in a way the WVS is the ultimate challenge 🙂....... although in reality it will probably end up like Grandfathers axe!
Regards,
Tony.
I think the original intent was to help those poor souls that had already wasted their money on the speakers, not to suggest that people buy them at a bargain price and then bolster them up..... Yes we are probably flogging a dead horse, but I'm the sort of person that likes tweaking things to get more out of them, so I guess in a way the WVS is the ultimate challenge 🙂....... although in reality it will probably end up like Grandfathers axe!
Regards,
Tony.
I think anyone who has already bought a pair of these WV speakers should just think of it as a lesson for life and try to get out more in future🙂
It's odd but most scams of this nature seem to involve men in white vans. Interesting how ownership of such a vehicle causes some people to behave in this unscrupulous way.
Perhaps van manufacturers should be more responsible and not offer their products in white then we could all walk the streets safely and free from irrational temptation.
It's odd but most scams of this nature seem to involve men in white vans. Interesting how ownership of such a vehicle causes some people to behave in this unscrupulous way.
Perhaps van manufacturers should be more responsible and not offer their products in white then we could all walk the streets safely and free from irrational temptation.
Richard:
1Ft³ ready made cabinets go $200 the pair or more.
½" particle board without bracing is not adequate for speaker building. ½" particle board with bracing every four inches is quite adequate for speaker building.
If you buy your components from Madisound, they will give your crossover component values.
Buying used speakers is nice, if you can find a pair you like. But then, this is diyAudio. 🙂
Buying older speakers at tag sales and inserting new components is great, but most older speakers were boxy as opposed to todays slimmer outline.
Getting wood cut for you at a lumber yard is a good option, but joining wood at the proper angle, lining up seams and refinishing are not everyone's cup of tea.
I feel the project is doable. There are other options, including ready-made kits, of course. But going this route is not crazy.
1Ft³ ready made cabinets go $200 the pair or more.
½" particle board without bracing is not adequate for speaker building. ½" particle board with bracing every four inches is quite adequate for speaker building.
If you buy your components from Madisound, they will give your crossover component values.
Buying used speakers is nice, if you can find a pair you like. But then, this is diyAudio. 🙂
Buying older speakers at tag sales and inserting new components is great, but most older speakers were boxy as opposed to todays slimmer outline.
Getting wood cut for you at a lumber yard is a good option, but joining wood at the proper angle, lining up seams and refinishing are not everyone's cup of tea.
I feel the project is doable. There are other options, including ready-made kits, of course. But going this route is not crazy.
Re: Can we steer this back on topic?
First thing was to ditch the thermal input protector, fit PP caps instead of the BP electros, and rearrange the wiring so that clean star earthing applied.
I also added a brace between the front and rear panels and wired internally with Canare star quad cable.
The result was much improved over the original, and quite good enough for many applications.
In this case, the application was a 20yo playing his kind of noisey rock music.
In this circumstance they were ideal.
These were a 12" 3 way, and gave that eighties efficient 12" 3 way sound that works great for parties etc.
With a bit of tweaking they can improve quite markedly, and would satisfy many listeners.
Eric.
Hello Steve, more than 10 years ago a younger friend of mine exchanged an old guitar and some cash for a pair of these speakers, and I did some improvements.7V said:
First thing was to ditch the thermal input protector, fit PP caps instead of the BP electros, and rearrange the wiring so that clean star earthing applied.
I also added a brace between the front and rear panels and wired internally with Canare star quad cable.
The result was much improved over the original, and quite good enough for many applications.
In this case, the application was a 20yo playing his kind of noisey rock music.
In this circumstance they were ideal.
These were a 12" 3 way, and gave that eighties efficient 12" 3 way sound that works great for parties etc.
With a bit of tweaking they can improve quite markedly, and would satisfy many listeners.
Eric.
Re: Re: Can we steer this back on topic?
Maybe anyone interested could probably pick up a pair from a 'victim' for $50 - $100.
I would like to get a final idea of the cost of cabinet bracing and making good from keltic and the electronics mods from mrfeedback.
I wouldn't be surprised if the modified design wouldn't also gain from a 'replace the weakest driver' modification.
I'd love to see a website made available with photos and details of the modifications. Easy, step-by-step instructions that allow anyone to have a go. Unfortunately, I'm just too tied up with Seventh Veil stuff at the moment.
I think you'd be amazed how many postings threads on this topic get in a whole load of hi-fi forums. Well, just look at this one. Naturally, most people post to have a whine and a moan (even here) but there would certainly be considerable interest out there.
My bet is that the modded WVS could become THE first project for starting speaker builders and the trendiest boxes on campus.
kelticwizard said:
Well there you go guys.mrfeedback said:
Maybe anyone interested could probably pick up a pair from a 'victim' for $50 - $100.
I would like to get a final idea of the cost of cabinet bracing and making good from keltic and the electronics mods from mrfeedback.
I wouldn't be surprised if the modified design wouldn't also gain from a 'replace the weakest driver' modification.
I'd love to see a website made available with photos and details of the modifications. Easy, step-by-step instructions that allow anyone to have a go. Unfortunately, I'm just too tied up with Seventh Veil stuff at the moment.
I think you'd be amazed how many postings threads on this topic get in a whole load of hi-fi forums. Well, just look at this one. Naturally, most people post to have a whine and a moan (even here) but there would certainly be considerable interest out there.
My bet is that the modded WVS could become THE first project for starting speaker builders and the trendiest boxes on campus.
The reason that this speaker scam can be found all over the world is simple. It is too expensive to ship large speakers around the world. If you buy a Yamaha rack system at Sears, the electronics were made in Asia, but the speaker cabinets were made in the country of sale. It isn't worth shipping a 2 big boxes of mostly air from China to Los Angeles.
In LA, for example, there is a big factory that produces speakers for many, many different brands. They have the tooling and the workforce, and manufacture for many diverse customers.
Mr Van White just orders up some impressive and good looking speakers and sells them with a story.
I assume all continets (except Antartica smart alec) has one of these factories.
About 15 years ago the story was "My boss ordered 10 speakers, they sent us 10 pairs, we got extras to get rid of. These "Coustic Monitors" blow away these $2,000.00 speakers, you can have them for $300.00."
In LA, for example, there is a big factory that produces speakers for many, many different brands. They have the tooling and the workforce, and manufacture for many diverse customers.
Mr Van White just orders up some impressive and good looking speakers and sells them with a story.
I assume all continets (except Antartica smart alec) has one of these factories.
About 15 years ago the story was "My boss ordered 10 speakers, they sent us 10 pairs, we got extras to get rid of. These "Coustic Monitors" blow away these $2,000.00 speakers, you can have them for $300.00."
Funny you should mention making cabinets in China, as I only read in "The Guide" (a TV and entertainment guide that comes in the Monday Sydney Morning Herald newspaper), that local speaker manufacturer Orpheus, was having trouble keeping up with demand, until they started sourcing cabinets from China!
It amazes me sometimes just how cheap some of the stuff comming out of China is!
Regards,
Tony.
It amazes me sometimes just how cheap some of the stuff comming out of China is!
Regards,
Tony.
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