reply
Whilist your on the subject of 'hope of the victims of white van syndrome'.
I've only bought a pair of speakers a while back from a white van.
These were 3 way disco speakers-later i found out they were imitation disco speakers.
12 inch bass
5 1/4 inch mid
12 x 10 inch piezo horn
150w
carpet covered cabinet.
plastic corners
1/4 inch jack connector.
I bought them when i first started djing,but I was hugelly dissapointed ,they even blew up when I used them for my first disco at a local church hall--my first ever time i played out aged 15.
When I opened the cabinet to replace the burnt out drivers they were so poorly made--- 1/2 inch chipboard only glued together no nails,screws or rivets.No bracing or any internal wadding,
the 12 inch woofer which on the packaged said it had a cloth surround had a crappy light foam surround, and a tiny 12 0z ceramic magnet for a 12 inch woofer and 100w was stamped on the back with NO vented pole piece.And the mid only had a electrolytic cap 50v 6.8uf in series with the mid,no other componets whatsoever.
The internal wiring was the same as doorbell wire ultra thin and crappy.
And worse of all the cabinets had no make and the drivers had no make either or no model number.
So I pulled out all the rubbish wire and lousy speaker drivers[even ripping apart burnt the 12 inch woofer,to find it had a 1 inch voice coil on a paper former].
So the cabinet was too fimsy to support to use for any pro drivers,even the metal speaker grilles were inferior quality.
I never trust white vans anymore since once I also bought a LG[a known make at least]camcorder from a White van for £150 and it didn't work---no come back on that like with shops.
Whilist your on the subject of 'hope of the victims of white van syndrome'.
I've only bought a pair of speakers a while back from a white van.
These were 3 way disco speakers-later i found out they were imitation disco speakers.
12 inch bass
5 1/4 inch mid
12 x 10 inch piezo horn
150w
carpet covered cabinet.
plastic corners
1/4 inch jack connector.
I bought them when i first started djing,but I was hugelly dissapointed ,they even blew up when I used them for my first disco at a local church hall--my first ever time i played out aged 15.
When I opened the cabinet to replace the burnt out drivers they were so poorly made--- 1/2 inch chipboard only glued together no nails,screws or rivets.No bracing or any internal wadding,
the 12 inch woofer which on the packaged said it had a cloth surround had a crappy light foam surround, and a tiny 12 0z ceramic magnet for a 12 inch woofer and 100w was stamped on the back with NO vented pole piece.And the mid only had a electrolytic cap 50v 6.8uf in series with the mid,no other componets whatsoever.
The internal wiring was the same as doorbell wire ultra thin and crappy.
And worse of all the cabinets had no make and the drivers had no make either or no model number.
So I pulled out all the rubbish wire and lousy speaker drivers[even ripping apart burnt the 12 inch woofer,to find it had a 1 inch voice coil on a paper former].
So the cabinet was too fimsy to support to use for any pro drivers,even the metal speaker grilles were inferior quality.
I never trust white vans anymore since once I also bought a LG[a known make at least]camcorder from a White van for £150 and it didn't work---no come back on that like with shops.
So what are you saying? I shouldn't buy a pair? 🙄cowanrg said:
OK, I get the point. No more turd polishing. Over and out.
Come out of your box, Steve, it's all right. 🙂
Actually, my last post was dealing with Steve Eddy's idea that if a speaker gives you enjoyment, then it is a good speaker.
I can think of one set of curcumstances where a pair of these White Van speakers can have a use.
That would be for an apartment dweller or someone who does not have a lot of woodworking tools or knowledge who still wants to build his own.
He doesn't want to get into gluing jigs or whatever. Doesn't want to refinish.
A pair of these could make a decent outside for a project. You wouldn't have to even cut through the outside of the enclosure.
First, I would cut some 1/2 particle board or plywood, in strips that can be passed through the woofer hole. The new material would not have to go all the way to the top or bottom, since the 1/2" chipboard will be rigid near the edges.
Alternatively, I would pass 2" hardboard barces through the woofer hole and put braces a few inches apart on the interior walls. Even 1/2" material become rigid if it is braced enough.
Front and back would require bracing, as much as possible respecting the speaker cutouts.
A couple of cross braces between sides and front and back would stiffen things a lot.
Silicone sealant or Liquid Nails would be needed to seal leaks from the inside.
After that, you can just check out Parts Express, Maplins or someplace that has woofers on sale. Actually, with a properly braced and sealed box, you can even get good woofers.
One problem I see with these from the pictures I have seen of them is that the speaker cutouts are positioned to look good, maybe not the best for your crossover. Spacing between drivers is important, crossoverwise. But you might be able to do something there.
Most lumber yards and home improvement stores will cut lumber and particle board for you at a nominal cost. So no need to get expensive equipment there. You might be able to borrow or even buy a handheld saw to cut the braces to correct length.
In short, by passing braces through the woofer hole, you should be able to use the enclosure as a skin to make a decent box, in my opinion. And it can be just the thing for a person willing to measure and go down to the lumber yard, but doesn't want to get involved with advanced woodworking or refinishing. The braces, sealant and the rest might cost $50 or so. So if you bought these things for $150, you have a usable pair of boxes for $200. Maybe not such a bad deal.
Actually, my last post was dealing with Steve Eddy's idea that if a speaker gives you enjoyment, then it is a good speaker.
I can think of one set of curcumstances where a pair of these White Van speakers can have a use.
That would be for an apartment dweller or someone who does not have a lot of woodworking tools or knowledge who still wants to build his own.
He doesn't want to get into gluing jigs or whatever. Doesn't want to refinish.
A pair of these could make a decent outside for a project. You wouldn't have to even cut through the outside of the enclosure.
First, I would cut some 1/2 particle board or plywood, in strips that can be passed through the woofer hole. The new material would not have to go all the way to the top or bottom, since the 1/2" chipboard will be rigid near the edges.
Alternatively, I would pass 2" hardboard barces through the woofer hole and put braces a few inches apart on the interior walls. Even 1/2" material become rigid if it is braced enough.
Front and back would require bracing, as much as possible respecting the speaker cutouts.
A couple of cross braces between sides and front and back would stiffen things a lot.
Silicone sealant or Liquid Nails would be needed to seal leaks from the inside.
After that, you can just check out Parts Express, Maplins or someplace that has woofers on sale. Actually, with a properly braced and sealed box, you can even get good woofers.
One problem I see with these from the pictures I have seen of them is that the speaker cutouts are positioned to look good, maybe not the best for your crossover. Spacing between drivers is important, crossoverwise. But you might be able to do something there.
Most lumber yards and home improvement stores will cut lumber and particle board for you at a nominal cost. So no need to get expensive equipment there. You might be able to borrow or even buy a handheld saw to cut the braces to correct length.
In short, by passing braces through the woofer hole, you should be able to use the enclosure as a skin to make a decent box, in my opinion. And it can be just the thing for a person willing to measure and go down to the lumber yard, but doesn't want to get involved with advanced woodworking or refinishing. The braces, sealant and the rest might cost $50 or so. So if you bought these things for $150, you have a usable pair of boxes for $200. Maybe not such a bad deal.
Re: Re: Re: Hold on a minute!
Yep that's pretty much it. I thought it was a scam restricted to Australia, but apparently not. There are probably differing models on offer, but from the sounds of it, it's almost like it's organised. Maybe like the Amway of speakers.......... When it happened to me I hadn't heard about WVS, and thought that the speakers were probably stolen, and didn't want to get involved, so I never saw the actual speakers, but I read about it a few weeks later in the newspaper.
It seems the basic Idea is to make the speakers as cheaply as possible whilst looking expensive, then sell them for the highest price possible by convincing the person they are getting an absolute bargain.
Regards,
Tony.
Christer said:
Yep that's pretty much it. I thought it was a scam restricted to Australia, but apparently not. There are probably differing models on offer, but from the sounds of it, it's almost like it's organised. Maybe like the Amway of speakers.......... When it happened to me I hadn't heard about WVS, and thought that the speakers were probably stolen, and didn't want to get involved, so I never saw the actual speakers, but I read about it a few weeks later in the newspaper.
It seems the basic Idea is to make the speakers as cheaply as possible whilst looking expensive, then sell them for the highest price possible by convincing the person they are getting an absolute bargain.
Regards,
Tony.
Re: 54 posts and still no hope
Hi 7V,
Based on what people have said about the crossovers, I guess this is an area that could probably be improved without too much expense (obviously you wouldn't go all out buying expensive caps)...... I think what most people are saying is that it isn't worth spending any more money on something that's rubbish to start with, but, if you can improve it for relatively little more (eg maybe $20-$50) and the improvement is substantial then I guess it's worth it. After all they have allready spent the money and spending an extra $50 to get an improvment may seem to the owner much more palatable than throwing the speakers away and buying a new pair for maybe $500-$1000.
I suspect that the main problem with your plan though, is that there probably wont be any consistency with what drivers are used from box to box (more than likely whatever is cheapest each time they do a production run), but I guess a good quality xover at say 800Hz and 3500Hz may be an improvement in any of these boxes compared to what they come with.
Regards,
Tony.
7V said:
Hi 7V,
Based on what people have said about the crossovers, I guess this is an area that could probably be improved without too much expense (obviously you wouldn't go all out buying expensive caps)...... I think what most people are saying is that it isn't worth spending any more money on something that's rubbish to start with, but, if you can improve it for relatively little more (eg maybe $20-$50) and the improvement is substantial then I guess it's worth it. After all they have allready spent the money and spending an extra $50 to get an improvment may seem to the owner much more palatable than throwing the speakers away and buying a new pair for maybe $500-$1000.
I suspect that the main problem with your plan though, is that there probably wont be any consistency with what drivers are used from box to box (more than likely whatever is cheapest each time they do a production run), but I guess a good quality xover at say 800Hz and 3500Hz may be an improvement in any of these boxes compared to what they come with.
Regards,
Tony.
Amazing...I was approached by a pair of guys in their "white van" some yrs. ago in a shopping center parking lot south of seattle,wa. Took a look and passed on their 'offer'. Having worked summers for the carnival though,I felt obligated to listen to their pitch...Then contacted police. I was told there's no law against it...and that I was the 14th call they'd received in last 2 days. What is surprising,is fact it appears to be an (almost) worldwide phenoma.
vince8 said:
Fortunate I haven't heard of any such vans here in Sweden
at least. We've had ice-cream vans for over thirty years , though,
but their products are quite OK. 🙂
In America, the phenomenon goes back to at least 1981. I know that because that year a white van was cruising the streets of Manchester, Connecticut. A friend bought a pair for, I believe, $150, (equivalent of $284 today), and gushed about his good fortune for about two weeks. However, a month or so later he said he was "disappointed" in the sound.
Somebody has to be making money if they keep it up year after year.
Somebody has to be making money if they keep it up year after year.
So why just speakers? Or do they sell amps and CD palyers
as well? Seems they are missing out on a lot of opportunity
to make more money. 🙂
Anyway, always be careful with travelling salesmen. In the best
case the product is OK, but the price is usually far too high.
Her in Sweden it si common with people selling fire extinguishers,
telling people, rightly so, how important it is to have one. A friend
of min who got such a visit, not buying one, and asked his
neighbour who is a fireman. He dismissed it as a not very good one and priced at lest three times higher than it should be.
as well? Seems they are missing out on a lot of opportunity
to make more money. 🙂
Anyway, always be careful with travelling salesmen. In the best
case the product is OK, but the price is usually far too high.
Her in Sweden it si common with people selling fire extinguishers,
telling people, rightly so, how important it is to have one. A friend
of min who got such a visit, not buying one, and asked his
neighbour who is a fireman. He dismissed it as a not very good one and priced at lest three times higher than it should be.
Looks like it's illegal here in Aus.
Found this cached article.
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...111655.html+white+van+speakers&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
and this one.
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...tm+selling+speakers+from+a+van&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
and this one.
http://anthonyjhicks.com/ajh/weblog.nsf/l/2E10221087D8F75A85256A000077FE80
All three mention different brands, so maybe its more of a case of the scam is universal but the products aren't. some being better than others, as would be indicated by the Queensland UNI evaluation of the speakers being worth about $500, compared to the West Australian, at about $100.
Regards,
Tony.
Found this cached article.
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...111655.html+white+van+speakers&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
and this one.
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...tm+selling+speakers+from+a+van&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
and this one.
http://anthonyjhicks.com/ajh/weblog.nsf/l/2E10221087D8F75A85256A000077FE80
All three mention different brands, so maybe its more of a case of the scam is universal but the products aren't. some being better than others, as would be indicated by the Queensland UNI evaluation of the speakers being worth about $500, compared to the West Australian, at about $100.
Regards,
Tony.
7V: I think the only hope of saving the world from white van syndrome is for some audio super-heroes to follow them around in a black van and start selling true bargain-phile speakers for the same price. You could have a pair of TL-towers on sale, drive with a couple of GCs with internal 12VDC/120VAC power supplies. Plug into a car battery for demo in situ and let the white van spankings begin!
🙂ensen.
🙂ensen.
Now you're talking pp.purplepeople said:
"Wherever bad hi-fi exists you will find us. Whenever music is massacred we'll be there. The Black Van Guys - Bargain-phile speakers from the audio super-heroes."
Yeah, we could have suits made from black heat-shrink. The van itself could have all outside surfaces made with electrostatic panels for maximum high frequency SPLs. Of course, there would have to be an audiophile quality subwoofer system - not in the van, but towed behind in a trailer. Imagine, if you will, of row upon row of M&K transmission line subwoofers powered by a Honda generator mounted in it's own anechoic chamber and mounted above them, an honeycomb array of mid-drivers (your design, of course). There would be no need for an engine since the whole thing would be propelled forward by the force of transduced air. Imagine showing up to a boom show playing Carmina Burana. How many homeboys do you think would be in awe!
But I digress...
🙂ensen.
But I digress...
🙂ensen.
As we added super-heroes to the group, there could be a second van and 3 smaller vehicles for truly outdoor surround sound. We could usher in a true revival of the drive-in theatre and become the rage at these multi-act festivals. Oh.... the possibilities are endless!
🙂ensen.
How can you tell it's a Friday and the solar storm is having its effect?
🙂ensen.
How can you tell it's a Friday and the solar storm is having its effect?
It should be pointed out that 1.0 Ft³ cabinets with MTM cutouts retail for $175 each. So a pair costs $350.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=302-752&DID=7
I doubt these White Van speaker cabinets have genuine veneer. Still, if they are widely available for $150, and $50 of bracing and materials brings them up to speed-suddenly the idea of buying the White Van speakers for the cabinets only begins to make a certain amount of sense.
Some of those White Van speakers seem to be bigger than 1Ft³.
Of course, you can save even more money by checking out tag sales and buying twenty year old speakers with rotted foam surrounds and cabinets in decent shape for twenty bucks the pair. But that is hit-and-miss at best, though cabinets such as this are seen frequently at tag sales.
Regardless, if you take the White Van boys down to $150 for the pair, you could do a lot worse. Choose your replacement components carefully, and you can actually end up with a bargain.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=302-752&DID=7
I doubt these White Van speaker cabinets have genuine veneer. Still, if they are widely available for $150, and $50 of bracing and materials brings them up to speed-suddenly the idea of buying the White Van speakers for the cabinets only begins to make a certain amount of sense.
Some of those White Van speakers seem to be bigger than 1Ft³.
Of course, you can save even more money by checking out tag sales and buying twenty year old speakers with rotted foam surrounds and cabinets in decent shape for twenty bucks the pair. But that is hit-and-miss at best, though cabinets such as this are seen frequently at tag sales.
Regardless, if you take the White Van boys down to $150 for the pair, you could do a lot worse. Choose your replacement components carefully, and you can actually end up with a bargain.
For $150 bucks it would be almost easier to find a cabinet-maker to cut the panels for you from 3/4" MDF. I know some of the big hardware chains will cut panels for nearly free.
🙂ensen.
🙂ensen.
Purple:
Absolutely correct. And the lumber yard or home improvemeent store will cut panels for very little money.
Then our decidedly un-handy, toolless apartment dweller, (which might explain why he decided to live in an apartment in the first place), then brings home all these boards and tries to figure out how to glue them all together so that they a least look like 90º angles. Hopefully, he gets the cutouts done first, or he gets a lesson on how to cut passably round holes for the speakers.
Assuming he is able to blanks out harsh memories of derisive laughter directed his way from the other students in the junior high school woodworking class, he now has a reasonably square box of pure particle board, with no concept on how to refinish. Whoopee.
If he brings home cheap speakers for $150 and simply gets hardwood braces cut at the home improvement store, then some yellow glue, our intrepid apartment dweller simply takes out all the old components, takes a cheap or borrowed Skilsaw-most homeowners have them- and cuts the braces so they fit through the woofer hole. Since the particle board is thin, he probably could use two braces or more per panel. A cheap or borrowed drill will allow him to screw them in from the inside. Then he cuts cross braces for side-to-side and front-to-back support. It is possible for a beginner to do this in a few hours.
After that, he just gets his new components-which he would have to do anyway if he had the box custom made.
I think you will agree that that bracing an already assembled box for extra strength is much easier for this individual. 🙂
Absolutely correct. And the lumber yard or home improvemeent store will cut panels for very little money.
Then our decidedly un-handy, toolless apartment dweller, (which might explain why he decided to live in an apartment in the first place), then brings home all these boards and tries to figure out how to glue them all together so that they a least look like 90º angles. Hopefully, he gets the cutouts done first, or he gets a lesson on how to cut passably round holes for the speakers.
Assuming he is able to blanks out harsh memories of derisive laughter directed his way from the other students in the junior high school woodworking class, he now has a reasonably square box of pure particle board, with no concept on how to refinish. Whoopee.
If he brings home cheap speakers for $150 and simply gets hardwood braces cut at the home improvement store, then some yellow glue, our intrepid apartment dweller simply takes out all the old components, takes a cheap or borrowed Skilsaw-most homeowners have them- and cuts the braces so they fit through the woofer hole. Since the particle board is thin, he probably could use two braces or more per panel. A cheap or borrowed drill will allow him to screw them in from the inside. Then he cuts cross braces for side-to-side and front-to-back support. It is possible for a beginner to do this in a few hours.
After that, he just gets his new components-which he would have to do anyway if he had the box custom made.
I think you will agree that that bracing an already assembled box for extra strength is much easier for this individual. 🙂
keltic: You suggest improving the WVS purchased at some "discount" by bracing, etc. If the unwitting "victim" is even able to do that modification, s/he can certainly screw together some panels cut at the hardware store and bored out by a good cabinetmaker. Better yet, they could just get a DIY speaker kit so the drivers are even included. Since we don't expect that same "victim" to have that level DIY skill, they are, unfortunately, a lost cause. The only way to "save" them is to prevent them from being duped in the first place.
🙂ensen.
🙂ensen.
Purple:
I disagree. Screwing together some custom cut boards at 90° angles, making sure the corners match, etc, is a pretty big job. Then there is refinishing.
Here, he simply cuts some 2" by 1" hardwood bracing down to a size that passes through the woofer hole, does a quick pilot hole and screw down, and there he goes. Plus he seals with a silicone gun. He can order good speakers from Madisound, and they will even tell him the correct crossover components to buy. (I am not sure Parts Express does this-they might).
A kit is also an option. But in this case, I do believe that you can modify a cheap box and the experience might not be that much more difficult than putting together a kit.
Plus, he already has bought the El Crappo speakers. So in a sense, the cabinets are for free.
Would I recommend he buy the cheap speakers for modification purposes? Let me put it this way-I think it is an option if you can get the White Van boys down to $150 or so. You can go the kit route if you want to, certainly. But the cheap speaker mod route could be a perfectly good way to go.
I disagree. Screwing together some custom cut boards at 90° angles, making sure the corners match, etc, is a pretty big job. Then there is refinishing.
Here, he simply cuts some 2" by 1" hardwood bracing down to a size that passes through the woofer hole, does a quick pilot hole and screw down, and there he goes. Plus he seals with a silicone gun. He can order good speakers from Madisound, and they will even tell him the correct crossover components to buy. (I am not sure Parts Express does this-they might).
A kit is also an option. But in this case, I do believe that you can modify a cheap box and the experience might not be that much more difficult than putting together a kit.
Plus, he already has bought the El Crappo speakers. So in a sense, the cabinets are for free.
Would I recommend he buy the cheap speakers for modification purposes? Let me put it this way-I think it is an option if you can get the White Van boys down to $150 or so. You can go the kit route if you want to, certainly. But the cheap speaker mod route could be a perfectly good way to go.
kelticwizard said:
I guess the other thing is how loud are they going to play these things. If they just play at moderate levels, then cabinet deficiencies may not be too much of a concern, especially if extra bracing is added as Keltic suggests. Some damping material probably wouldn't go astray either.
I guess the main point is that we are trying to improve the speakers some what, so that the poor victim doesn't feel quite so duped. Yes prevention is better than cure, but we can't ignore the fact that some people will always fall victim to these sort of scams 🙂
Regards,
Tony.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.