So I've got a note into the company that makes my DAC, but I think the "glitch" or "skip" issue I've been having with the FIFO Reclocker and HDMIPi might be an issue with my DAC?
After trying nearly everything I can think of - and I can type it all out if anyone wants all the details - but today I resigned myself to the fact that it's just not going to work. Didn't work as a streamer, won't work as a D2D converter/reclocker because of these stupid clicks/glitches that are intermittent, but very obvious when they occur.
In doing so, I decided to give a go with my Pi2AES HAT. It's limited to PCM only, 24/192 via I2S or AES/EBU but through my testing with the FIFO setup, I actually found PCM sounded really damn good through the setup, with the right HQP filters and noise shapers in place.
And damned if the Pi2AES doesn't have a very similar issue with i2S into my DAC. It's a Gustard pinout (going by memory here, I think they're all Gustard pinouts - either way they're all the same across the devices I've tried) and that's what my DAC is setup to accept, as its configurable. The funny thing is - the glitches or whatever you want to call them, they sound different (worse) than off the Ian FIFO.
So who knows, maybe I got a dud i2S input or something. When I initially tried the Pi2AES when I first got the new DAC, I found something odd - this DAC shouldn't require +5V on pin 18 of the HDMI connector, but my DAC doesn't produce any output unless I configure Pi2AES to do just that. May be a red herring, not sure. But something seems weird.
After trying nearly everything I can think of - and I can type it all out if anyone wants all the details - but today I resigned myself to the fact that it's just not going to work. Didn't work as a streamer, won't work as a D2D converter/reclocker because of these stupid clicks/glitches that are intermittent, but very obvious when they occur.
In doing so, I decided to give a go with my Pi2AES HAT. It's limited to PCM only, 24/192 via I2S or AES/EBU but through my testing with the FIFO setup, I actually found PCM sounded really damn good through the setup, with the right HQP filters and noise shapers in place.
And damned if the Pi2AES doesn't have a very similar issue with i2S into my DAC. It's a Gustard pinout (going by memory here, I think they're all Gustard pinouts - either way they're all the same across the devices I've tried) and that's what my DAC is setup to accept, as its configurable. The funny thing is - the glitches or whatever you want to call them, they sound different (worse) than off the Ian FIFO.
So who knows, maybe I got a dud i2S input or something. When I initially tried the Pi2AES when I first got the new DAC, I found something odd - this DAC shouldn't require +5V on pin 18 of the HDMI connector, but my DAC doesn't produce any output unless I configure Pi2AES to do just that. May be a red herring, not sure. But something seems weird.
It's a Denafrips DAC. Plenty of folks use i2S with them with no issues so I don't think my experience is typical, but we'll see.
But I can't really test my theory out with any input from the Ian stack other than i2S so if I do have an issue at the DAC side, it's a little tough to troubleshoot (for me).
So at this point, I have Pi2AES playing the same streams into both the AES input and the i2S input. So far - no issues on AES. And I've used this DAC for months with USB input and have not had any issues there either; so after a bit I'll switch back over to i2S and see if I reproduce the issue.
But I can't really test my theory out with any input from the Ian stack other than i2S so if I do have an issue at the DAC side, it's a little tough to troubleshoot (for me).
So at this point, I have Pi2AES playing the same streams into both the AES input and the i2S input. So far - no issues on AES. And I've used this DAC for months with USB input and have not had any issues there either; so after a bit I'll switch back over to i2S and see if I reproduce the issue.
Well I think, there we go. Right on queue - 4-5 songs played issue-free through AES/EBU
Switch over to i2S and at the beginning of the 2nd song, a little "pop" sound.
And again, this is on the pi2AES which is wholly separate from the Ian goods.
Can't say I'm happy, but I'm kinda relieved, I guess? Now we'll see what the manufacturer comes back with..
Switch over to i2S and at the beginning of the 2nd song, a little "pop" sound.
And again, this is on the pi2AES which is wholly separate from the Ian goods.
Can't say I'm happy, but I'm kinda relieved, I guess? Now we'll see what the manufacturer comes back with..
To be clear - the "pops" happen during tracks. They're intermittent - I've tried to observe a pattern but there is not one that I can discern.
It's like hitting a spec of dust on a vinyl record - except there's one like every 3 tracks.
They occur at all Fs I was able to test, and PCM/DSD doesn't matter either. The last two nights I've been strictly PCM.
It's like hitting a spec of dust on a vinyl record - except there's one like every 3 tracks.
They occur at all Fs I was able to test, and PCM/DSD doesn't matter either. The last two nights I've been strictly PCM.
ahhh, ok, so it wont be anything to do with the automute. Sometimes if a chip is set to automute, the gap between tracks can be too long and it mutes, then enables the output, causing a pop from DC offset. this is solved by adjusting the automute trigger length. it does indeed sound like an issue with your DAC, or at least settings on your DAC. Hopefully they can help.
Dear Toddrhodes,
My stacks are:
- RPi as Streamer
- Station Pi - RPi Side : BridgePi + USB Amanero
- Station Pi - Audio Side : ReceiverPi + FIFOPi Q3 + TransportPi
Connected via I2S to my DAC Denafrips PONTUS II, and yes, sometimes there are "Clicks & Pops" but only happens upon Track changes between different sample rate especially from DSD to PCM.
Currently I manage this issue via Roon Relay sync while waiting for HDMIPi MK II with Auto Mute function.
But I never experience "Clicks & Pops" during tracks playback as per your case with my setup
My current setting:
- I only use NOS Mode (have not tried the OS Mode) on the DAC
- I use USB FW 2006be15R17 on the USB Amanero board which has longer mute period between tracks (not sure if it does have any effect).
Curious about your case, would you mind share which I2S Pin Out you are using and does this case happened on both NOS & OS Mode?
Hope we can find the solution for this
Best
Hi photochum! I'll try to replicate your format:
My stack is:
Rpi4 as streamer, running Miska's 4112 NAA HQPlayer image
- I've also tried running it direct from a PC, same issue
Bridge Pi - receives USB via Ghent cable from Pi4 using an Amanero Combo384 streamer. I'm using the R15 FW, which has the same MUTE function but is only .5s. I think that's the only difference. I've tried 5 or 6 different FW revisions with no change in the behavior
FifoPi Q3 Ultimate - tried it with and without u.fl connected from BridgePi to FifoPi
HDMI Pi - outputs i2S to my Venus II DAC.
- I've tried two different HDMIPis - one powered by LifePO4 and one by GPIO. Same issue. I've also tried various combinations of u.fl cables between Fifo and HDMIPi and appropriate dip switch changes - also no difference
My Venus II is set up with all three LEDs lit for the HDMI Pinout. It would be the bottom row configuration in this shot from the manual:
I'm using NOS mode as well. Never tried it in OS mode but since I was already upsampling with HQP, I didn't want to be redundant in that aspect.
And now that I'm seeing similar behavior out of a totally different device - one that doesn't do anything with USB input or anything like that, I suspect it's just a faulty input on the DAC or something else is amiss.
But that said, I think I'm going to give Ian's dual mono DAC a go, and see how it does.
Can I ask, what function does ReceiverPi do for you? I am just going straight from BridgePi to FifoPi. Is it simply because you have the parts split out on StationPi?
Thank you for the info!!
My stack is:
Rpi4 as streamer, running Miska's 4112 NAA HQPlayer image
- I've also tried running it direct from a PC, same issue
Bridge Pi - receives USB via Ghent cable from Pi4 using an Amanero Combo384 streamer. I'm using the R15 FW, which has the same MUTE function but is only .5s. I think that's the only difference. I've tried 5 or 6 different FW revisions with no change in the behavior
FifoPi Q3 Ultimate - tried it with and without u.fl connected from BridgePi to FifoPi
HDMI Pi - outputs i2S to my Venus II DAC.
- I've tried two different HDMIPis - one powered by LifePO4 and one by GPIO. Same issue. I've also tried various combinations of u.fl cables between Fifo and HDMIPi and appropriate dip switch changes - also no difference
My Venus II is set up with all three LEDs lit for the HDMI Pinout. It would be the bottom row configuration in this shot from the manual:
I'm using NOS mode as well. Never tried it in OS mode but since I was already upsampling with HQP, I didn't want to be redundant in that aspect.
And now that I'm seeing similar behavior out of a totally different device - one that doesn't do anything with USB input or anything like that, I suspect it's just a faulty input on the DAC or something else is amiss.
But that said, I think I'm going to give Ian's dual mono DAC a go, and see how it does.
Can I ask, what function does ReceiverPi do for you? I am just going straight from BridgePi to FifoPi. Is it simply because you have the parts split out on StationPi?
Thank you for the info!!
clicks
FWIW I also get a little snap primarily in the left channel. Could best be described as sounding like the little snaps in a poor vinyl LP. I am most aware of it when I hit play. It is pretty frequent but not terribly intrusive so I can ignore it. I'll have to listen for it to understand if it happens during playback.
This is in a simple stack Rpi3 - FIFOpi - I2StoPCM(I2S) - TDA1541a(I2S) DAC.
One note of interest. I use an SMA cable from FIFOpi to a clock that is separately powered. I get the same little snap if I powerup the clock while everything else is powered.
FWIW I also get a little snap primarily in the left channel. Could best be described as sounding like the little snaps in a poor vinyl LP. I am most aware of it when I hit play. It is pretty frequent but not terribly intrusive so I can ignore it. I'll have to listen for it to understand if it happens during playback.
This is in a simple stack Rpi3 - FIFOpi - I2StoPCM(I2S) - TDA1541a(I2S) DAC.
One note of interest. I use an SMA cable from FIFOpi to a clock that is separately powered. I get the same little snap if I powerup the clock while everything else is powered.
Good to know.
Funny enough, I mentioned it sounds "different" coming from different devices. From Pi2AES it does sound like a "snap," almost like static.
From the Ian stack it's like a speck of dust on a record, fairly quiet but noticeable but the weirdest part? It changes places in the soundstage. I've heard it on the right side, the left side, in a low corner, in the center up high. It's so bizarre.
And what's funny is I am never bothered by that sort of thing on vinyl. But in digital land, it's unexpected so I find myself anticipating it, or listening for it, and I just can't get my brain to ignore it. Pain in the butt is what it is
(My brain, to be specific).
Funny enough, I mentioned it sounds "different" coming from different devices. From Pi2AES it does sound like a "snap," almost like static.
From the Ian stack it's like a speck of dust on a record, fairly quiet but noticeable but the weirdest part? It changes places in the soundstage. I've heard it on the right side, the left side, in a low corner, in the center up high. It's so bizarre.
And what's funny is I am never bothered by that sort of thing on vinyl. But in digital land, it's unexpected so I find myself anticipating it, or listening for it, and I just can't get my brain to ignore it. Pain in the butt is what it is
(My brain, to be specific).Dear toddrhodes,
1.my I2S Pin Out setting is 0-1-0 (line 3 on manual Pin out), suggest you to try this one out first.
2.I am not familiar with your music image, I'm using Moode Audio and Volumio as both Independent Media Player & Roon Endpoint as well as VitOS just for Roon Endpoint, all works well with the above setting. You might want to try out these images just for test purposes. Additional info Moode Audio will soon release new version 7.1 which have Camilla DSP function on top of SoX Upsampler
3. I am using ReceverPi, to connect my old Cambridge CDP as CD Transport via SPDIF to ReceiverPi, so I can still play my CD Collection with the benefit of better Signal Quality via FIFOPi Q3 and I2S Connection rather than simply hook it up directly to the DAC via SPDIF
Please update the result of your test
Best
Thanks! I'd be happy to find it was just an incorrect DAC setting, absolutely.
I'll tweak that and let you know. Many thanks!
As for the Pi images - the reason I like Miska's image, he's the person who develops HQPlayer so he made his own lightweight Pi OS (Linux) that ONLY runs Hqplayerd and networkaudiod, so it's as light as possible.
I've played with SMPD and I'm actually using GentooPlayer right now in concert with my Pi2AES and I really like it, since it can be both a Roon bridge and an HQPlayer NAA. And the options it affords - holy cow it can be customized. Different kernels, operating solely in RAM, it's a neat product.
I will say that with all this I've been doing, thanks to the help of this forum and others - it's amazing how... complicated digital can be when you want to get every last bit of sonic goodness from it.
I'll tweak that and let you know. Many thanks!
As for the Pi images - the reason I like Miska's image, he's the person who develops HQPlayer so he made his own lightweight Pi OS (Linux) that ONLY runs Hqplayerd and networkaudiod, so it's as light as possible.
I've played with SMPD and I'm actually using GentooPlayer right now in concert with my Pi2AES and I really like it, since it can be both a Roon bridge and an HQPlayer NAA. And the options it affords - holy cow it can be customized. Different kernels, operating solely in RAM, it's a neat product.
I will say that with all this I've been doing, thanks to the help of this forum and others - it's amazing how... complicated digital can be when you want to get every last bit of sonic goodness from it.
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