I'm sorry, I haven't been here in the forum for a long time.
Thanks to Jesper for pointing this out.
About the questions:
The sand in the upper chamber is not a must, it's just a way to get a little more out of the speaker. The weight calms down the whole speaker and also the horn.
Since upgrading to the LaVoce tweeter, I don't have the sand in there either, because it's also a very messy business.
We have used many LaVoce drivers in our group now and all have been very close to the spec sheet. So they make really good stuff.
DF10-172M and DF10-172K are very similar, probably the 172K will also work with my crossover without any changes. But of course I can only say exactly when it has been measured. There will probably be a little more level in the upper treble, but the human ear is very insensitive in this range and 90% of people don't hear these frequencies at all.
Unfortunately, it is very difficult to predict, especially at the moment, which drivers will be available in the long term.
A word about the comparison between the JBL 4367 and the Asathor:
The word "clone" is probably used a little less seriously here in Germany. Here, it often refers purely to the visual appearance and not necessarily to a technical copy. Technically, of course, the JBL and the Asathor are different. I wanted to develop a loudspeaker with a visual appearance reminiscent of the 4367, affordable and with a convincing sound. I think I succeeded, even though there are of course better speakers. But these usually cost considerably more.
Thanks to Jesper for pointing this out.
About the questions:
The sand in the upper chamber is not a must, it's just a way to get a little more out of the speaker. The weight calms down the whole speaker and also the horn.
Since upgrading to the LaVoce tweeter, I don't have the sand in there either, because it's also a very messy business.
We have used many LaVoce drivers in our group now and all have been very close to the spec sheet. So they make really good stuff.
DF10-172M and DF10-172K are very similar, probably the 172K will also work with my crossover without any changes. But of course I can only say exactly when it has been measured. There will probably be a little more level in the upper treble, but the human ear is very insensitive in this range and 90% of people don't hear these frequencies at all.
Unfortunately, it is very difficult to predict, especially at the moment, which drivers will be available in the long term.
A word about the comparison between the JBL 4367 and the Asathor:
The word "clone" is probably used a little less seriously here in Germany. Here, it often refers purely to the visual appearance and not necessarily to a technical copy. Technically, of course, the JBL and the Asathor are different. I wanted to develop a loudspeaker with a visual appearance reminiscent of the 4367, affordable and with a convincing sound. I think I succeeded, even though there are of course better speakers. But these usually cost considerably more.
Me too
.I read in one of your posts, that you prefered a dip around 1-3KHz and had changed the 6.8uf to 4.7.
I chose a 5.6uF instead, so lets see, where this goes. I finished the crossovers tonight, got them mounted
in the boxes, and here comes Murphy again. Moved not so long ago, and now I can´t find the box, where I
hid all the plugs, connectors and................ speaker terminals.
So....... maybe tomorrow.
Well..... took a little more ttham a day to get some impressions, and I´m far from done yet.
Coming from Magnepan 3.6R, this is quite a different ballgame.
Boy... are these basses stiff. Have actually been running them at 10Hz/50-60 watt during a couple of nights while at sleep,
just to try to soften them up a little faster.. Also the Typhany drivers were kind of sharp at first listen, but for some reason seem
to have softened up a little (or my ears are getting used to them).
I have a friend very close to where I live, who actually bought the 4367 from new. In the brochure JBL recommend around 50 hours of
burning in. This is an understatement, and the actual time to get them to play some bass is more like 250 - 500 hours. This seems to fit
well to the LaVoce units too.
So far I have listened to (without subs) everything from old Wishbone Ash, Leonard Cohen, 2018 remix of Pink Floyd´s Animals, Robert
Cray Band Live, Keb´Mo´s Pink Live Concert, The Tenor Scene/Eddie Lockjaw Davis & Johnny Griffin Quartet and many others.
This is a very different experience, from what I´m used to. The close-up feeling of sitting in first row is definately a differet beast.
The openness of a saxophone, the "in your face" of Cohens voice on "You Want It Darker" is breathtaking. The punch of well played
drums is in a different league of what I´ve been used to.
Will I keep them? ............. Absolutely.
Am I completely satisfied? ............ Not quite. Would love to have a treble driver, which was a bit softer in it´s presentation. More like
the 4367, which to my ears doesn´t quite sound as agressive in the uppe octaves, as the Tymphany does.
I know, you tried a lot of different drivers for "Asathor", so if you have any suggestions, I´d love to have some, since I´m not at all
familiar with PA-stuff.
So......... first conclusion after only a few days...........This is NOT a JBL 4367.
But "value for money"-wise, this is close enough by far. You get the experience of the slam, the openness and a lot of other
parameters of a well constructed speaker of this type. (By now, you must have figured out, that I like them a lot)
Well done to "Der Akustische Untergrund".
Now you go and make a copy/lookalike of the JBL S-4700....... then we´re talking
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Well..... took a little more ttham a day to get some impressions, and I´m far from done yet.
Coming from Magnepan 3.6R, this is quite a different ballgame.
Boy... are these basses stiff. Have actually been running them at 10Hz/50-60 watt during a couple of nights while at sleep,
just to try to soften them up a little faster.. Also the Typhany drivers were kind of sharp at first listen, but for some reason seem
to have softened up a little (or my ears are getting used to them).
I have a friend very close to where I live, who actually bought the 4367 from new. In the brochure JBL recommend around 50 hours of
burning in. This is an understatement, and the actual time to get them to play some bass is more like 250 - 500 hours. This seems to fit
well to the LaVoce units too.
So far I have listened to (without subs) everything from old Wishbone Ash, Leonard Cohen, 2018 remix of Pink Floyd´s Animals, Robert
Cray Band Live, Keb´Mo´s Pink Live Concert, The Tenor Scene/Eddie Lockjaw Davis & Johnny Griffin Quartet and many others.
This is a very different experience, from what I´m used to. The close-up feeling of sitting in first row is definately a differet beast.
The openness of a saxophone, the "in your face" of Cohens voice on "You Want It Darker" is breathtaking. The punch of well played
drums is in a different league of what I´ve been used to.
Will I keep them? ............. Absolutely.
Am I completely satisfied? ............ Not quite. Would love to have a treble driver, which was a bit softer in it´s presentation. More like
the 4367, which to my ears doesn´t quite sound as agressive in the uppe octaves, as the Tymphany does.
I know, you tried a lot of different drivers for "Asathor", so if you have any suggestions, I´d love to have some, since I´m not at all
familiar with PA-stuff.
So......... first conclusion after only a few days...........This is NOT a JBL 4367.
But "value for money"-wise, this is close enough by far. You get the experience of the slam, the openness and a lot of other
parameters of a well constructed speaker of this type. (By now, you must have figured out, that I like them a lot)
Well done to "Der Akustische Untergrund".
Now you go and make a copy/lookalike of the JBL S-4700....... then we´re talking
Thank you very much for sharing your listening experience. I wonder what is the difference compared to treble with the Lavoce twitter. I hesitate a lot to do the Asathor or the Alta Voce from Donhighend.
Waiting for @Rese66 to respond to the tweeter-question.
In regards to your hesitation........
If you like the direct "in your face"-sound from JBL (with horn), nothing to worry about..... absolutely nothing,
if you take the build-price into consideration.
One aspect, I forgot to mention: Soundstage.
This is NOT the same as my Magnepan (and other good "Hifi"-speakers.
YES, the stereo image is there. YES, Q-sound is represented well, but the overall coherence/smooth soundstage from
left to right (and sometimes beyond) is in my opinion not quite as good as on my Maggie´s.
But it´s something I can definately live with, since the dynamics of the "Asathor" is well beyond that of a so called HiFi-speaker
Thanks Boydk for your description. I'm glad you like the Asathor.
To make the tweeter a little smoother, you can swap the 5.6µF capacitor for a 4.7µF. I think that should work right in the range where you're not quite happy.
If that's still not enough, you can also increase the resistance from 7.5 to 10 or 12 ohms. That should soften the sharpness considerably.
The LaVoce tweeter sounds a bit brighter in the upper treble - I don't think a swap would be worth it for you, since you'd rather take energy out of the treble.
@Clement64:
If you're not into the look of the big monitors, the Alta Voce is an excellent choice. I really, really like the AV and it doesn't really have any drawbacks over the Asathor.
@chickadee:
The LAVOCE WSF152.02 can NOT be used in the Asathor!
To make the tweeter a little smoother, you can swap the 5.6µF capacitor for a 4.7µF. I think that should work right in the range where you're not quite happy.
If that's still not enough, you can also increase the resistance from 7.5 to 10 or 12 ohms. That should soften the sharpness considerably.
The LaVoce tweeter sounds a bit brighter in the upper treble - I don't think a swap would be worth it for you, since you'd rather take energy out of the treble.
@Clement64:
If you're not into the look of the big monitors, the Alta Voce is an excellent choice. I really, really like the AV and it doesn't really have any drawbacks over the Asathor.
@chickadee:
The LAVOCE WSF152.02 can NOT be used in the Asathor!
Thanks Rese66.
Will do some experiments with the capacity/resistance and later leave some subjective comments on the differences
Thanks,i have placed an order for speakers at Reihelt electronic.
Horns ordered from Tube amplifier Doctor.
Crossover parts from Quint(some parts not available now but the next week).
Unfortunately the shipping cost... x3
The shipping costs are of course a pity, but the stores are very good. My horns also come from Tube amp Doc and also my X-Over components I always buy from Quint. Reichelt is one of the largest German electronics stores. So nothing should go wrong.
Of course you can use the plywood, that's no problem at all.
Of course you can use the plywood, that's no problem at all.
First disappointment.
At the time of ordering the loudspeakers were showing as in stock(Reihelt electronik), now i received an email that they aren't available and need to deliver.I see now delivery time 9-12 business days.
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