Thanks Gents, yeah I'm pleased with the way they're coming on too.
I bought a pair of eNAbled 167's from Dave for my MLTL project and they took a while to run-in (little did I know at the time that was why they sounded 'odd') but after that they've just got better and better.
It's not a problem running them in for me, I'll hook up a little 6EM7 SET amp and run a dub CD through them for a few days. I'd like to hear them indoors when they're run-in after the shock I had after I'd spent ages making the MLTL's
Older and wiser (a bit!)
I know what to expect this time
DTB
I bought a pair of eNAbled 167's from Dave for my MLTL project and they took a while to run-in (little did I know at the time that was why they sounded 'odd') but after that they've just got better and better.
It's not a problem running them in for me, I'll hook up a little 6EM7 SET amp and run a dub CD through them for a few days. I'd like to hear them indoors when they're run-in after the shock I had after I'd spent ages making the MLTL's
Older and wiser (a bit!)I know what to expect this time
DTB
Dave the bass said:
Oh lordy - a whole 'nother can o' worms
For me that would depend on the platform. I'm using a cheapie pair of Paradigm metal pipe stands (sand-filled) that include thin rubber pads on the metal top plate.
Since I tend to move them around quite a bit and swap out different boxes on the stand, I avoid using any permanent fixing, but something like Blu-tak or similar putty based couldn't hurt.
Thanks Chris, Blutack it is then, I've been offered a pair of QED stands by a lovely fella on another forum so that should sort out a few problems. Excellent.
Post evening dinner Fonken-fettling revealed that the oil is still drying and hasn't gone hard enough to buff or cut or rub in anyway but they are touch dry so can be handled OK without damaging the finish...
So, lets have look at both cabs with 4 coats of Danish oil on...corrrr...
No point in mucking about then, lets drill the holes and fit the cables and terminal blocks then...
...and...
Well, seeing as we're on a roll it'd be silly not to fit the drivers wouldn't it...
and from the back...
So still on roll lets see what they sound like...Oooo...look..... there's some handy stupidly tall Fonken stands that will surely bring out the worst in them and sub-optimum position too... excellent. Always the best way to hear a speaker for the first time IMHO ...
Well, they work :shock: and they sound VERY nice too, yes, from the outset. More detail tommorow as I'm running out of time.
I know they need running in (and mounting on a stand) before hearing them at their happiest so I whipped 'em back down the shed and hooked them up in antiphase...
...powered by our old friend the one-watt-wunder-amp...
...being fed by a CD discman playing a Finley Quaye CD on repeat for at least the whole weekend as I'm helping out hosting 2 mega skate jams this weekend. They should be run-in nicely by Monday evening 8)
Very happy, knackered and time for sleepy weepys.
Night night all.
DTB
Post evening dinner Fonken-fettling revealed that the oil is still drying and hasn't gone hard enough to buff or cut or rub in anyway but they are touch dry so can be handled OK without damaging the finish...
So, lets have look at both cabs with 4 coats of Danish oil on...corrrr...
No point in mucking about then, lets drill the holes and fit the cables and terminal blocks then...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
...and...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Well, seeing as we're on a roll it'd be silly not to fit the drivers wouldn't it...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and from the back...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So still on roll lets see what they sound like...Oooo...look..... there's some handy stupidly tall Fonken stands that will surely bring out the worst in them and sub-optimum position too... excellent. Always the best way to hear a speaker for the first time IMHO
...An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Well, they work :shock:
and they sound VERY nice too, yes, from the outset. More detail tommorow as I'm running out of time. I know they need running in (and mounting on a stand) before hearing them at their happiest so I whipped 'em back down the shed and hooked them up in antiphase...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
...powered by our old friend the one-watt-wunder-amp...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
...being fed by a CD discman playing a Finley Quaye CD on repeat for at least the whole weekend as I'm helping out hosting 2 mega skate jams this weekend. They should be run-in nicely by Monday evening 8)
Very happy, knackered and time for sleepy weepys.
Night night all.
DTB
Dave the bass said:So still on roll lets see what they sound like...Oooo...look..... there's some handy stupidly tall Fonken stands that will surely bring out the worst in them and sub-optimum position too... excellent. Always the best way to hear a speaker for the first time IMHO
On those "stands" you'd likely be best to flip the Fonkens up-side-down.
We've been using 20" tall stands, but an experience with using them by themselves with the FonkenWoofTLs as stands suggest a bit higher would be better.
dave
planet10 said:
It was just somewhere to Plonken Der Fonken (see what I did there, clever eh?) last night really.They were only indoors for 1 side of Motavation Radio by Mr S Hillage and A Dub experience by Sly + Robbie. Sitting in my usual spot with the Fonkens 'way oop thar' the HF was very lacking (naturally) as was any real imaging BUT what suprised me was the mid bass sound, so tight. Standing up so my ears were closer to the axis of the 127's it all started coming together but the HF still wasn't as good as the eNAbled 167's IMO.
Either way it's a much happier start than with my MLTL build (which I now lurve), speaking of which swapping back to them showed just how good they sound now. Lovely stuff, way more extension at both ends than the Fonkens (at present natch).
This morning before work I popped down to the 'running-in' department (shed) where I've had the Fonkens running all night in Antiphase via a little SET and CD player on repeat, intersting already... I know it was first thing in the morning and my HF hearing is more acute then but the sound has changed already. Wiring them back into phase and repositioning them gave a lovely full sound even in my very 'dead' sounding shed. I've bunged them back in antiphase and cranked up the volume a smidge and left them singing their little bums off for the whole day and may get them up and running indoors tonight for a little listen.
Happy DTB!
PS. A lovely chap form another forum has offered a pair of 18" high QED stands for swapsies/loan and when they're proper run-in they'll reside on those until we get Julies workroom sorted (or go on holiday, whichever comes first!!!)
They're back indoors after running non-stop for 24Hrs on a little SET amp with a CD on repeat.
They're being fed by another DIY SET (C3g>6B4G) on lash up stands (2 dinning chairs and 2 plastic boxes) with the bottom of the cabs 25" off the ground, they sound soooooo good. I've listening all night.
I had no idea a 4" driver and under £50 worth of Ply could sound like this.
OK, they don't do sub bass but what they do do is amazing. Really impressed.
DTB
They're being fed by another DIY SET (C3g>6B4G) on lash up stands (2 dinning chairs and 2 plastic boxes) with the bottom of the cabs 25" off the ground, they sound soooooo good. I've listening all night.
I had no idea a 4" driver and under £50 worth of Ply could sound like this.
OK, they don't do sub bass but what they do do is amazing. Really impressed.
DTB
planet10 said:
Well, I think most could imagine the drivers. Of more interest is probably the scale of the actual enclosure, which for the purpose of aesthetic continuity has the same cross sectional profile as the Fonken itself. This does tend to place the acoustic centre of the FE127 a bit high for near field listening, but in a 900+ sq ft "great room" with a vaulted ceiling, it's not so much of a problem. Of course if those dimensional constraints were loosened, I should imagine the net volume and enclosure tuning could be configured for a shorter & deeper box.
The SDX7 is a killer driver for the size, and although the XBL motor technology pays the "Hoffman premium"(sensitivity), 2 of them and 100watts or so per side is more than enough for this cowboy.
For those curious, the skinner box with a driver installed is a single SDX7 in sealed enclosure, for mating with another small (make that teeny) FR enclosure design.
I've been a busy boy this weekend with skate stuff but have enjoyed the little Fonkens a lot in the evenings, enough to form a sort of overview of their strengths and weaknesses.
After a 24hr run in sesh I bought them indoors Friday night for a proper listen, same for Saturday and Sunday.
Height is important as Dave and Chris have said before. At the mo I've got them sitting on a dinning chair with a storage box on top which puts the bottom of the cabs at 26" above the floor. The centre of the driver is level with my ears at that height.
....and I've got them set up like this in my lounge, they're toe'd in so the axis just cross in front of me, the MLTL's are set to a slightly more agressive angle as that seems to suit them in my room...
Like I said earlier they don't do the depth of bass that the MLTL's do BUT the bass they do make is lovely, VERY tight (fast? I'm new to all this so bear with me) and tuneful. They sound really yummy reproducing the finger playing of a double bass and the growl of the notes and the swell is brilliant. TBH if I didn't have a good reference I'd say wouldn't miss the lack of bass extention (and thats coming from a Bass-player!!). I can improve the response by pushing them back into the corner a bit but it's at a price of one of the little Fonkens major strengths, image and staging. BLOODY HELL they're brilliant in this area It loathes me to say they're BETTER than the MLTL's too. It just really is amazing, why on earth don't more folk go with this little FR driver thang? Sounds between the speakers are so focused and clear, now they've got a few hours on them the top really has come alive. There's a brilliant upper mid breathyness to their sound. I don't know if this down to either/or the driver or the cab, all I can say is that I absloutley love what they do in this department. It's the best I've ever had in my house. Running of my little 6B4G SE amp they sounded surreal last night, they're so 'alive' in their sound.
We had a mellow Cat Stevens, John Martyn, EBTG + Lonnie Liston Smith listening session last night and it was only the EBTG LP that sort of catches them out, it was the LP 'Walking Wounded' that combined breakbeat drum samples and sounds along with very dancey synth bass parts over the normal tales of loves lost and found, a fave of ours. On the occasional track where there's a lot dubby b-lines you got the gist of what was going on down below but not with the same satisfaction that the MLTL's can do. Still VERY VERY enjoyable litening though. On the 'Expansions' LP by Lonnie Liston smith they sounded amazing, organic Jazz funk 1970's styleee. They lacked nothing at all. All the instruments really well placed around and across the room. Tonight I'm gonna have a rock sesh and see how they handle that kinda stuff, we listen to huge range of musics. Julie is into Peter gabriel era Genesis and reckoned they sound great right throughout the afternoons while I'd been out skating over the weekend.
If there's a cab out here in DIY-land that can maintain the everything the little fonkens do but add a bigger focused bottom end but uses that lovely little 127 EN driver then please point me to them I don't want to resort to sub's and multidriver speakers again.
I've changed the speaker cabling BTW, I used to use big fat heavy OFC stuff....
...but have been advised in the past to swap over to thinner stuff so I've stripped out a twisted pair from a CAT5 cable and have temp lashed-up two run's in this stuff...
I couldn't say if there's a night and day difference between the 2 TBH.
I'm going to make a pair of little stands to get the fonkens up the right height and free up 2 dining room chairs too! The Fonkens are just too good to banish to JuJu's work room so I'm going to live with them for a while and learn mor about what they do or don't and swap between these and the MLTL's. They WILL be going away on Holiday with us though so it'll be interesting to see how they sound in other settings.
I'm really really pleased with them, thanks for all the help and encouragment chaps.
DTB
After a 24hr run in sesh I bought them indoors Friday night for a proper listen, same for Saturday and Sunday.
Height is important as Dave and Chris have said before. At the mo I've got them sitting on a dinning chair with a storage box on top which puts the bottom of the cabs at 26" above the floor. The centre of the driver is level with my ears at that height.
....and I've got them set up like this in my lounge, they're toe'd in so the axis just cross in front of me, the MLTL's are set to a slightly more agressive angle as that seems to suit them in my room...
Like I said earlier they don't do the depth of bass that the MLTL's do BUT the bass they do make is lovely, VERY tight (fast? I'm new to all this so bear with me) and tuneful. They sound really yummy reproducing the finger playing of a double bass and the growl of the notes and the swell is brilliant. TBH if I didn't have a good reference I'd say wouldn't miss the lack of bass extention (and thats coming from a Bass-player!!). I can improve the response by pushing them back into the corner a bit but it's at a price of one of the little Fonkens major strengths, image and staging. BLOODY HELL they're brilliant in this area
It loathes me to say they're BETTER than the MLTL's too. It just really is amazing, why on earth don't more folk go with this little FR driver thang? Sounds between the speakers are so focused and clear, now they've got a few hours on them the top really has come alive. There's a brilliant upper mid breathyness to their sound. I don't know if this down to either/or the driver or the cab, all I can say is that I absloutley love what they do in this department. It's the best I've ever had in my house. Running of my little 6B4G SE amp they sounded surreal last night, they're so 'alive' in their sound.We had a mellow Cat Stevens, John Martyn, EBTG + Lonnie Liston Smith listening session last night and it was only the EBTG LP that sort of catches them out, it was the LP 'Walking Wounded' that combined breakbeat drum samples and sounds along with very dancey synth bass parts over the normal tales of loves lost and found, a fave of ours. On the occasional track where there's a lot dubby b-lines you got the gist of what was going on down below but not with the same satisfaction that the MLTL's can do. Still VERY VERY enjoyable litening though. On the 'Expansions' LP by Lonnie Liston smith they sounded amazing, organic Jazz funk 1970's styleee. They lacked nothing at all. All the instruments really well placed around and across the room. Tonight I'm gonna have a rock sesh and see how they handle that kinda stuff, we listen to huge range of musics. Julie is into Peter gabriel era Genesis and reckoned they sound great right throughout the afternoons while I'd been out skating over the weekend.
If there's a cab out here in DIY-land that can maintain the everything the little fonkens do but add a bigger focused bottom end but uses that lovely little 127 EN driver then please point me to them
I don't want to resort to sub's and multidriver speakers again. I've changed the speaker cabling BTW, I used to use big fat heavy OFC stuff....
...but have been advised in the past to swap over to thinner stuff so I've stripped out a twisted pair from a CAT5 cable and have temp lashed-up two run's in this stuff...
I couldn't say if there's a night and day difference between the 2 TBH.
I'm going to make a pair of little stands to get the fonkens up the right height and free up 2 dining room chairs too! The Fonkens are just too good to banish to JuJu's work room so I'm going to live with them for a while and learn mor about what they do or don't and swap between these and the MLTL's. They WILL be going away on Holiday with us though so it'll be interesting to see how they sound in other settings.
I'm really really pleased with them, thanks for all the help and encouragment chaps.
DTB
DTB: It looks like a nice build you've put together. I've got the FE167's so hearing your thoughts one the one setup vs the other is interesting. Your room has a nice atmosphere, so I'll be interested to see what sort of cosmetic choices you make for fonken stands.
About wire, years ago I went from 18 awg ubiquitous stuff to 14 awg still pretty cheap stuff, and noticed a big jump in bass performance. Now I see this cat5 stuff floating around... I tried a double run of the cat5 (4 conductors) and felt like it made the highs (!) a little odd. This was stranded stuff I used, I didn't have any solid core stuff lying around to cut up. Maybe that would have made the difference. I would kind of like to try the solid core stuff, but I understand the optimal size of it to be a speaker-Q / amp DF matching thing. I think that my setup is in-between for both of these, so I don't really feel pushed to go small gauge...
P10 et al re-Fonkenwoof: Is there a thread or location somewhere about the development in this area? I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do wonder... 2nd order for the cross? I dunno much about crossovers, but I guess I expected it to be steeper for the sake of the little fostex. That's electrical, right? I've read some of the stuff on PLLXOs before, but it would be nice to see your implementation in action as an example.
How low to the fonkenwoofs claim to get?
I looked for price info on the SDX7, and I thought I saw $100 each, and you use 2 per channel? That seems like quite a price difference between the bass and the main speakers!
I'm interested in sub integration issues with the fonken in hopes of generalizing info to my FE167 Metronomes.
About wire, years ago I went from 18 awg ubiquitous stuff to 14 awg still pretty cheap stuff, and noticed a big jump in bass performance. Now I see this cat5 stuff floating around... I tried a double run of the cat5 (4 conductors) and felt like it made the highs (!) a little odd. This was stranded stuff I used, I didn't have any solid core stuff lying around to cut up. Maybe that would have made the difference. I would kind of like to try the solid core stuff, but I understand the optimal size of it to be a speaker-Q / amp DF matching thing. I think that my setup is in-between for both of these, so I don't really feel pushed to go small gauge...
P10 et al re-Fonkenwoof: Is there a thread or location somewhere about the development in this area? I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do wonder... 2nd order for the cross? I dunno much about crossovers, but I guess I expected it to be steeper for the sake of the little fostex. That's electrical, right? I've read some of the stuff on PLLXOs before, but it would be nice to see your implementation in action as an example.
How low to the fonkenwoofs claim to get?
I looked for price info on the SDX7, and I thought I saw $100 each, and you use 2 per channel? That seems like quite a price difference between the bass and the main speakers!
I'm interested in sub integration issues with the fonken in hopes of generalizing info to my FE167 Metronomes.
AdamThorne said:
Thanks Adam, yes I'm very chuffed with them. The natural finsh blends nice with the natural colours and other wood funiture we have.
WRT to the stands, I'm looking at just building a central column with a platform top and bottom, very simple. I might fill the central column with sand or concrete, I dunno yet.
Our house is a strange layout in that in that photo you can only see one room but behind where the picture was taken is a dining room and a kitchen all knocked through so the speakers shoot straight the way through the downstairs of our house BUT only in the Lounge do we get a true wide focused sound becuase of small supporting wall jutting out holding the floor above up
A crazy 70's idea in a 1930's house!!!!
All the best
DTB
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