I was just a kid when aluminium wire made an appearance about 1974. Aluminium can be a fine conductor for larger loads and sure beats copper as far as weight.
My dad told me a story of another hazard that appeared during the energy crisis.
The local utilities decided to economize by skimping on the malodor that they add to natural gas. Natural gas by itself does not have alot of smell. They usually add odor to it. Anyway, a few houses blew up because you could not smell the gas leak.
Kobamx, you can live in a house with dodgy plumbing and it be a real problem. I have a neighbor who just moved out of his rental because the kids were sick. County health ran a mold test and found it sky high as far as numbers go. Seems the shower was leaking into the crawl space and left standing water. This was discovered earlier and the landlord failed to do anyyhing about it.
My dad told me a story of another hazard that appeared during the energy crisis.
The local utilities decided to economize by skimping on the malodor that they add to natural gas. Natural gas by itself does not have alot of smell. They usually add odor to it. Anyway, a few houses blew up because you could not smell the gas leak.
Kobamx, you can live in a house with dodgy plumbing and it be a real problem. I have a neighbor who just moved out of his rental because the kids were sick. County health ran a mold test and found it sky high as far as numbers go. Seems the shower was leaking into the crawl space and left standing water. This was discovered earlier and the landlord failed to do anyyhing about it.
Electricity is the only trade that can be done completely wrong/dangerously but everything still works.
So true. I always tell people that just because it works doesn't mean it's safe.
Oh I know. I had a mould problem in my apartment. Water was getting behind the bathroom tiles. The landlord ripped it all out and replaced everything, even the bathtub. Free of cost to me since I rent.
I'm just lucky my landlord isn't a deadbeat.
Yup... If you get a 120V shock when you lean on the chest freezer and touch the refrigerator, you might have a ground fault LOL
You shouldn't get a shock if it's wired properly.
Ground faults through motors are common. GCFI outlets are required in kitchens, bath rooms, and any "wet" location. GFCI Outlet 15 Amp, UL Listed, Tamper-Resistant, Weather Resistant Receptacle Indoor or Outdoor Use, LED Indicator with Decor Wall Plates and Screws (White) - - Amazon.com Any appliance plugged into one of these outlets won't work if it has a ground fault; the device will trip. So you'll know it's time to replace your refrigerator while it's still working.
Another big issue is bonding the neutral. The neutral is bonded to the ground inside the service panel. The ground wire is typically bonded to the plumbing in residential installations. It this ground wire isn't installed properly, or if a plumber does some work and breaks the ground path (very common), then you have a real hazard - you can get shocked in the shower and that's all too common.
Fast Eddie said:
What about this shower head? There are countries which approve its use. The EU does not approve it. The EU does not even approve the use of immersion heaters!
Clearly, this debate is debatable.
If the pipes and the tub are all plastic, no problem...
If the EU doesn't allow immersion heaters, how do your kettles work?
Yeah, not going to argue about that, 100% agree etc.
But price and weight was not part of the discussion we had.
I somewhat agree on the "book smart" discuccion here.
I've also met some really smart people doing "regular jobs", lots of Masters degrees people mopping floors, train conductors and the like. Quite a few by choice it seems.
There was this brilliant kid who worked in the factory as a "set up tech" who reconfigured machines each time a different part needed to be run through them in a 1970's microelectronics processing line. Some of these machines were quite complex, like a vapor deposition / plasma etch chamber, or multi stage chemical baths on a long conveyor system. He could answer some seriously complex chemistry / physics questions that we came up with in our quest to do DIY related experiments and projects after hours. A casual conversation with hem revealed that he had a PHD in applied chemistry. This, of course brought the "what are you doing here" question. He stated that he never wanted a PHD, but his parents paid for college, and it was "easier than working" so he stayed in school as long as he could.
Several years ago when I lived in Florida this happened:
As I was leaving for work one morning two young guys walked past me and headed toward my back yard. I stopped them and asked what they were doing. One of them told me that they were contractors for Comcast, the cable TV company, and they had to check and possibly upgrade the "ground bonding" for the cable TV drop. He replied that they had to "bond" to the power company ground, not the water pipe ground. They looked legit, so I left for work.
A got home late that evening and found that the TV no longer worked correctly, there were 60 Hz hum bars in the picture and a loud buzz in the sound. I decided to disconnect the cable TV box and try over the air TV. When I disconnected the cable box from the TV there was a spark, and I measured about 40 volts AC between the TV and the cable box. OTA TV worked fine.
I decided to see what the idiots did to the cable TV hookup outside.....
The first picture shows a clamp on the copper plumbing fixture where two wires were previously inserted. They had removed the wire on the outside of the clamp that provided ground for the cable drop. They did NOT retighten the clamp on the wire that runs under the stucco (visible inside the clamp) which provides the ground for the AC power drop, that is bonded to the neutral at the breaker panel inside the house.
This left the house UNGROUNDED! This is an older house with another one of those technical disasters called "shared neutral" wiring. One loose wire can blow up lots of stuff when two 120 volt phases are wired in series across 240 volts and the neutral goes open.
The second picture shows how the "experts" ripped the wire off the water pipe, cut it short and connected it to power company ground. The cable clamp that used to hold it to the wall is now left hanging loose with no screw in it. That wire left unconnected in the clamp on the water pipe......goes underneath the stucco, inside, and connected to, the metal box containing the 200 amp breaker for the house...IE house ground. The ground wire for the cable system is now connected to a clamp on a pipe going into this box.....exactly the same ground!
The third picture shows their attempt to scratch through several layers of paint so that their ground clamp could get a good connection. This scraping revealed something quite obvious to me, but not to the "experts". An ohmmeter revealed the obvious. The experts had "bonded" system ground to a PLASTIC pipe.
I had already had several incidents with Comcast's service techs, so I decided to play hardball this time. First thing the next morning I called their service number and explained that I had been shocked by their cable box, and I investigated the problem and found it to have been created by one of their contractors who had been working all over the neighborhood for the past few days. They had created a National Electric Code violation which could shock or possibly kill any of several customers who had received the same treatment. I explained that I was leaving for work in 20 minutes, and if a QUALIFIED Comcast tech was not on site before I left, my next call was going to be to the city code compliance office, followed by the county code compliance office.
In less than 10 minutes a Comcast tech was on site. He made the situation legal with a wire nut splice in the ground wire from the Comcast box on the outside of the house back to the original water pipe ground. The new ground wire contained a splice and was not secured to the house. Someone would come back and do it properly within a few weeks. It was still the same when we sold the house and left Florida almost two years later.
I came home for lunch that day to find several Comcast vans in the area. They were all busy undoing the previous contractor's work. The water piping in that whole neighborhood is all copper, or cast iron. We were less than a mile from the Everglades swamp. The water table is less than 5 feet down all year round, so a pipe in the ground is a good ground.....not as good as my buried engine block, but that's a different story.
Young and stupid, poorly trained, or both. I would say both with an emphasis on poor training. Nobody should be messing with critical wiring without a basic understanding of electricity, and knowledge of how to use a simple ohmmeter.
Both the power distribution and cable TV wiring is overhead on poles in a neighborhood that was 40 years old. Tree contact with wires is common in old Florida neighborhoods and a good ground is important when the 7200 volt lateral wire is 6 feet above the cable TV coax.
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Similarly, I am becoming a hater of tradesmen because of incompetence.
I had a new water boiler in '07, the total installation costing £5k and including new radiator fittings.
When done water burst through the bathroom floor and flooded the kitchen below because the plumber had forgotten to use the plastic adhesive in the joint. But there were a total of 11 leaks, one of which went through the bedroom floor and into the lounge, the plumber saying that the cause was '60s pipework under the bedroom floor.
He hacked up the floor to find no problem, but it was obvious that his work on the radiator ends had leaked, water running down into carpet felt. I spent until three in the morning repairing the unnecessarily messed up floor.
He refused to cut the floor boards to separate the I/C and O/G pipes from the boiler, needed to prevent thermal conduction from newly heated water to the returning cooler water. I had to do it, Bosch saying that what he proposed, (not even with plastic insulation between pipes) was completely wrong and in breach of protocol, threatening the boiler.
In late '18 that boiler, after a servicing failed, and water came through the ceiling in the lounge, apparently due to a casting having cracked according to the plumber, but I could not see one. I had a new boiler from a different plumber, and as a result a radiator didn't work, they came back and fixed that.
During an installation the apprentice was walking around saying "where is that small screw" They made a mess of my varnished woodwork and the loft flooring, and aborted the fixing of the chimney pipe in the loft which I had previously done well. A week later water poured through into the lounge again, due to an incorrectly mounted seal. I have found the screw.
They then sent me a bill for the radiator work, and I suggested that they take me to County Court.
When I had my extension rebuilt I did the planning and drawing, but all the windows and doors were put in the wrong place. The floor did not meet that in the kitchen and I had to glue 9mm ply onto the floorboards to make it flush. The plasterer 's work was so poor that between two parallel pieces of wood he could not get a vertical surface, and I had to ask him to do it again, and the work was such that I spent a fortnight correcting it. I rewired it and was told that I needed it 'signing off', but a friend who is an electrician said that it was the neatest he had ever seen. I used cheap S/steel mixing bowls for the reflectors, 1' in dia. and this worried electricians because of heat which was 8W each.
I had a new water boiler in '07, the total installation costing £5k and including new radiator fittings.
When done water burst through the bathroom floor and flooded the kitchen below because the plumber had forgotten to use the plastic adhesive in the joint. But there were a total of 11 leaks, one of which went through the bedroom floor and into the lounge, the plumber saying that the cause was '60s pipework under the bedroom floor.
He hacked up the floor to find no problem, but it was obvious that his work on the radiator ends had leaked, water running down into carpet felt. I spent until three in the morning repairing the unnecessarily messed up floor.
He refused to cut the floor boards to separate the I/C and O/G pipes from the boiler, needed to prevent thermal conduction from newly heated water to the returning cooler water. I had to do it, Bosch saying that what he proposed, (not even with plastic insulation between pipes) was completely wrong and in breach of protocol, threatening the boiler.
In late '18 that boiler, after a servicing failed, and water came through the ceiling in the lounge, apparently due to a casting having cracked according to the plumber, but I could not see one. I had a new boiler from a different plumber, and as a result a radiator didn't work, they came back and fixed that.
During an installation the apprentice was walking around saying "where is that small screw" They made a mess of my varnished woodwork and the loft flooring, and aborted the fixing of the chimney pipe in the loft which I had previously done well. A week later water poured through into the lounge again, due to an incorrectly mounted seal. I have found the screw.
They then sent me a bill for the radiator work, and I suggested that they take me to County Court.
When I had my extension rebuilt I did the planning and drawing, but all the windows and doors were put in the wrong place. The floor did not meet that in the kitchen and I had to glue 9mm ply onto the floorboards to make it flush. The plasterer 's work was so poor that between two parallel pieces of wood he could not get a vertical surface, and I had to ask him to do it again, and the work was such that I spent a fortnight correcting it. I rewired it and was told that I needed it 'signing off', but a friend who is an electrician said that it was the neatest he had ever seen. I used cheap S/steel mixing bowls for the reflectors, 1' in dia. and this worried electricians because of heat which was 8W each.
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WOW that bonding job is so wrong, and so dangerous.
I was called to work on a house where the electrician and the plumber were both butchers. The electrician did the work first and then the plumber came after. The plumber had disconnected the ground and moved the pipe about ten feet away! No bond to ground at all. Then when I opened up the service box... well... it was the same mistakes I see over and over and over. It seems all amateur electricians make every single mistake on every job they do.
People have terrible misunderstandings about electricity too. Everybody says "if you're grounded, you won't get a shock, right?" Uh...
I was called to work on a house where the electrician and the plumber were both butchers. The electrician did the work first and then the plumber came after. The plumber had disconnected the ground and moved the pipe about ten feet away! No bond to ground at all. Then when I opened up the service box... well... it was the same mistakes I see over and over and over. It seems all amateur electricians make every single mistake on every job they do.
People have terrible misunderstandings about electricity too. Everybody says "if you're grounded, you won't get a shock, right?" Uh...
The Comcast contractors in my area are known for burying the cable a whole four inches underground. No more lawn Jarts unless you avoid the cable path.
I bought a house from a lifelong contractor and the house was moved from a location a mile or so away.
I did an addition to double the space about eight years after I bought it. It was easier to pull out the old panel and just replace the whole thing. I was not able to find a ground at all when I started removing the existing panel and replacing the panel and meter box. No ground stake at the panel and there was at least one ground clamp near the kitchen sink with no wire attached.
While the local utilities people pulled and reconnected the service, they mentioned also that someone recently harvested two ground lines on the power poles on the street. I was just lucky that my service goes between two rows of houses and those ground wires are not so accessible, I try to keep the closest pole surrounded with small prickly trees or climbing roses to keep the ground safe.
Before the house addition, I had some RF interference sounding like AM or shortwave leaking into stereo or radios. That problem oddly went away after adding two ground paths to the house.
The last thing the contractor had done was install interlocking shingles on a roof surface that had a slope of 2.3 when the minimum slope for the shingles was supposed to be 3.
Anyway, still love the house. My kids are not going to be able to afford to move out the way housing prices are going in Denver so it is good to have the space.
I bought a house from a lifelong contractor and the house was moved from a location a mile or so away.
I did an addition to double the space about eight years after I bought it. It was easier to pull out the old panel and just replace the whole thing. I was not able to find a ground at all when I started removing the existing panel and replacing the panel and meter box. No ground stake at the panel and there was at least one ground clamp near the kitchen sink with no wire attached.
While the local utilities people pulled and reconnected the service, they mentioned also that someone recently harvested two ground lines on the power poles on the street. I was just lucky that my service goes between two rows of houses and those ground wires are not so accessible, I try to keep the closest pole surrounded with small prickly trees or climbing roses to keep the ground safe.
Before the house addition, I had some RF interference sounding like AM or shortwave leaking into stereo or radios. That problem oddly went away after adding two ground paths to the house.
The last thing the contractor had done was install interlocking shingles on a roof surface that had a slope of 2.3 when the minimum slope for the shingles was supposed to be 3.
Anyway, still love the house. My kids are not going to be able to afford to move out the way housing prices are going in Denver so it is good to have the space.
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