Maybe not. Are the resistors thin film or thick film? What is the clock? There is no isolation/reclocking after the FPGAs, etc., etc. It may be worth about what you have to pay for it. However, if you have to redesign it to make it sound good, why bother? Often with these things it really needs the PCB to be redesigned, as they are often only 2-layer. Even if 4-layer they may not have stereo Vref supply routing, so you can be stuck with mono Vref (and there goes the good stereo).
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Yes, I understand , it is a hit or miss with these complicated products, I cannot recommend any, except the simpler lampucera...
I am just very tempted to purchase the pcm58 from them... I have the tools to tweak it, I have logic analyzer scopes etc.
I am just very tempted to purchase the pcm58 from them... I have the tools to tweak it, I have logic analyzer scopes etc.
Do you have a kit for sale? I just can't find the energy anymore to 'fight' Chinese engineering,
nope. I just work on TDA1541A and AD1862, have pcbs for the ad1862 4 layers for small monney story to cover a small parts of my experiments or I gave also gerbers for two layers as miro1360 and others did in his thread (there is a pcb for the pcm 56 or 58 iirc but have not tried that one. I tweaked an Aiwa cd players with the pcm56 and very liked what it was able to do in the Aiwa layout with output mini traffo and SK170 buffers stock, a serious company !).
But yeah, it cost us bigger than chineese cheap dac just with the parts. And it is non oversampling or reconstruction filter, a very personal choice and taste.
Problem is, as you know, the chineese quality of the parts in cheap dacs. Not often well chosen and sometimes chineese with so-so quality. Of course not what the main brand often talked do (topping, etc), using known suppliers.
Chi-Fi winns if one like Delta Sigma about prices. Frankly, miro1360 project is good SQ and fun but Mouser is expensive. Abraxalito makes good research and propose DAcs at affordable price because he lives in China. Could be fun to compare one of his DAC, with AK or ESS cheap dac and also a <100 bucks USB dongle with same chips talked at Head Hifi site....
To understand music, you must listen to it. But so long as you are thinking, “I am listening to this music,” you are not listening.
⸺ Alan Watts
In 2023 my brother, a friend and I went to a local show where the latest Avantgarde Trio was introduced - the passive version,
as the active modules were not yet available.
Amplification: AVM Pre + Monos:
While most Avantgarde speakers lack coherence between the horns and the direct radiating bass cabs, I was pleasantly surprised by this setup. No noticeable beaming, a seamless integration with the bass horn and exhibiting a 'natural signature'. The distributor prefers Nextel-coated horns, which in my opinion are mandatory. Whether you like horns or not, with a sensitivity of 109 dB the Trios are very revealing.
We listened to a few songs and walked on to the next room, only to return after about 15 minutes when we heard a familiar track. As we approached the room again, it became increasingly clear that 'something had changed' and certainly not for the better. The natural timbre and all the adjectives you would attribute to it were gone.
Instead, the system now sounded artificial, flat, lifeless, grayish, to the point that if I had listened to recordings of the first and second "sessions" I would probably have been fooled into believing that they were from completely different setups. It didn't get any better with the next tracks from different albums.
Immediately after we entered the room, I walked up to the front to see if anything had changed in the setup, which indeed had been the case.
Initially this duo was used for CD playback:
When we returned they had switched to this mediaplayer (Aurender A30), playing ripped CDs from the internal 10 TB storage:
Now, I'm pretty sure that most people in the same situation wouldn't (immediately) perceive the differences mentioned and that materialistic reductionists would come up with all kinds of 'science based' arguments to explain or refute the differences.
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Maybe the second setup was not powered on before (or only shortly before)? When we did listening tests every device to be tested was powered on from the moment of arrival as otherwise fine devices may be misjudged.
Especially devices with DACs need some time to settle usually.
Especially devices with DACs need some time to settle usually.
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It was, because we visited the room at the end of the day and the man who responsible for the room is definitely aware of the importance of warming up.
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Did you actually read the study?
The sound wave used in the test mixed the original with loopback recordings made with moderately priced DAC:
Original → Loopback → Original → Loopback → Original → Loopback → Original → Loopback
Test subjects were supposed to state how many of these switches occurred. There were 1367 participants which is a very large number for these types of tests. Based on the results there was no no evidence that listeners could reliably distinguish between the original
recording and its loopback version. So even a moderately priced DAC can be regarded as transparent.
Also most of the participants made the same claims that you and many other here are repeating: "DACs exhibit unique sonic characteristics, often attributing differences to factors such as the analog output stage, power supply design, and implementation details."
Still they failed in the test.
So there is some truth in that DAC technology is pretty mature and differences are marginal.
Oke, should we outline the question of the thread,
- Dac = 2 channel stereo or more, can be bare PCB or complete with case and power supply.
-Inexpensive = below $150.
-Chinese= origin from China, Hong kong, Thailand.
-Excellent = THD+N better then -110db.
If we can agree it will be easier to respond to this thread.
Are there any excellent inexpensive Chinese DACs
I start with a proposal.- Dac = 2 channel stereo or more, can be bare PCB or complete with case and power supply.
-Inexpensive = below $150.
-Chinese= origin from China, Hong kong, Thailand.
-Excellent = THD+N better then -110db.
If we can agree it will be easier to respond to this thread.
Why jump so high if it will be done by well known small usb powered box for 60 (on often sales) - 80 USD ?
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100 Euro is maybe too low to expect something well enough thought out and minimal but necessary features like USB/Coax/Toslink inputs and XLR outputs. What about internal PSU, bus powered or dreaded external cheap switcher and therefore the absolute need for an PSU upgrade? -> considerable higher total cost! Or headphones output.
I think one can expect something decent and complete for slightly less than 200 Euro. So in the 100 ...200 Euro range.
I think one can expect something decent and complete for slightly less than 200 Euro. So in the 100 ...200 Euro range.
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They are everywhere, one I bought is a fiio ja11. they are dacs with enough juice to power headphones if need be. There are measurements out there that show we have dongle dacs that compete with the best of the best.
the threads original question has been answered, anything else here is just people arguing about random junk.
28 pages on, I had to refresh my memory. The OP was looking at dacs for their phone. In trying to redefine this, Balanced connectors are now being seen as a requirement by some. Myself, I think if you must unplug the charger and use balanced, you are not looking for the same excellent.
I think the 100 mark is a good target, that many are competing at. I don't see why 30 couldn't buy a phone a dac, that met the potential of streaming from many sites. I don't think we are going to see many reviewed here though.
I use a minidsp HD for PC to hifi, and many others have used these for their dsp credentials. They are a couple of hundred though, and not what I consider cheap. As there is more in the box than a simple dac, so surely something cheaper can equal it, as dac only.
Big thank you to mkane77g again, for just 'giving' me the miniDSP. Top guy. It's seen a lot of use.
I think the 100 mark is a good target, that many are competing at. I don't see why 30 couldn't buy a phone a dac, that met the potential of streaming from many sites. I don't think we are going to see many reviewed here though.
I use a minidsp HD for PC to hifi, and many others have used these for their dsp credentials. They are a couple of hundred though, and not what I consider cheap. As there is more in the box than a simple dac, so surely something cheaper can equal it, as dac only.
Big thank you to mkane77g again, for just 'giving' me the miniDSP. Top guy. It's seen a lot of use.
Another amateur and strongly biased study designed to teach audiophiles a lesson that they can't hear worth crap.
While the results are against your audio religion it is better to point out what you believe is wrong with that study rather than whine about it.