Her voice seems like it is amplified, it lacks a lot of definition, everything in that album is very easy for a sound system to reproduce... It like Diana Krall .. in better.
Listen to T. Duport mass, and Mozart Benedictus from Mass in C minor, this will challenge your audio system, The Gardiner version is especially nice where you can see the 4 soloists all beside each another on the stage.
Listen to T. Duport mass, and Mozart Benedictus from Mass in C minor, this will challenge your audio system, The Gardiner version is especially nice where you can see the 4 soloists all beside each another on the stage.
The LP is the best... but the Tidal HIFi stream comes close.
I'll search for the other two. Thanks
I'll search for the other two. Thanks
so Nitsch PCM looks good, but there are very few details and information about it seems expensive. Okay it is USA, but it is not cheap whatever what don't deaf you make you stronger (can't resist). I'd like to listen to it as it seems a clever devlopment, and I also wonder about the quality of the clocking between a streamer and a "cheap" dac clock inside. Who is the master and the slave in those combos ? Jitter doesn't matter anymore and became a myth ?
If the newest chip seems to be less sensible to jitter I am not sure a USB stick can isolate at the input all the garbadge noise of a computer and has few sense to be used by the usb output of a streamer that is 4 x its price. Btw strategy of Wiim isnot clear to me, okay, cheap price for quality is perhaps a credo, but the dacpart is alwaysembeded for the worse in their amps or streamer as if the dac stage was on the second raw. Maybe a better isolate dac will pop up, dunno !
The only thing that is clear to me is we can not follow anymore with DIY at making things cheaper due to the price of parts with the classic distributors. The very low quantities became expensive to manage for them and us. Okay for R&D, no more for a hobby but being rich and have time which often is not compatible.
If the newest chip seems to be less sensible to jitter I am not sure a USB stick can isolate at the input all the garbadge noise of a computer and has few sense to be used by the usb output of a streamer that is 4 x its price. Btw strategy of Wiim isnot clear to me, okay, cheap price for quality is perhaps a credo, but the dacpart is alwaysembeded for the worse in their amps or streamer as if the dac stage was on the second raw. Maybe a better isolate dac will pop up, dunno !
The only thing that is clear to me is we can not follow anymore with DIY at making things cheaper due to the price of parts with the classic distributors. The very low quantities became expensive to manage for them and us. Okay for R&D, no more for a hobby but being rich and have time which often is not compatible.
diggy, you can be rich and have time for your rich wife,
I find the Chinese is easier to modify than the tiny micro smd's of things made here.
I could cut some traces in my Chinese dac and I am sure with some luck it will still work haha.
TonyEE I propose you to take my path with the PCM58, maybe you burst my bubble or maybe we both find the way out.
I do believe in some conspiracy theory... what if the brightest sounding equipment sells in a quick shopping session. This would explain the phasing out of PCM53, 56, 58, then toward brighter dac pcm61, pcm63, then today we are into deflating birthday balloons and reviewers chant 'micro whizzer details'.
While this happens the crowd is looking for a solution for the headache of the new dacs, turntables sales are picking up, even cassette. While some happy campers are unbothered and never upgraded 🙂
I find the Chinese is easier to modify than the tiny micro smd's of things made here.
I could cut some traces in my Chinese dac and I am sure with some luck it will still work haha.
TonyEE I propose you to take my path with the PCM58, maybe you burst my bubble or maybe we both find the way out.
I do believe in some conspiracy theory... what if the brightest sounding equipment sells in a quick shopping session. This would explain the phasing out of PCM53, 56, 58, then toward brighter dac pcm61, pcm63, then today we are into deflating birthday balloons and reviewers chant 'micro whizzer details'.
While this happens the crowd is looking for a solution for the headache of the new dacs, turntables sales are picking up, even cassette. While some happy campers are unbothered and never upgraded 🙂
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Yes you can, but rare ! And if rich but for the joy of understanding, better to directly buy an expensive DAC and an Handbag as a counterpart for the wife and the peace of the couple ! One can thanks God our spouses are not embeded in the hobby of diy shoes, my wallet could not resist.
So any <200 cheap dac sounding good and already populated ?? (but the few diy we talk already).
So any <200 cheap dac sounding good and already populated ?? (but the few diy we talk already).
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I think we keep leaving the subject of this thread to discuss other things...
Is the current Schiit Modi+ an "excellent" DAC? Maybe the best sounding D-S DAC for under $150?
Or is that completely debatable, as in 'it depends on your own preferences'?
Its not a Chinese dac..... we are looking communist China opportunities, which here we lack the cheap labor, time, and parts...
I think I missed it. Which DIY DAC kits have been discussed that cost less than 200 euros or US dollars?
I think I agree with both the statement and the question. Maybe all that can be expected for less than 300 euros or dollars is "quite good."
I would love to know whether or not you really do have to spend $1000 or more to achieve an "excellent" DAC. $3000 or more? What's the price barrier here?
For me, I figure 'quite good' will have to be good enough, because of budget constraints. So I gambled and ordered a Topping E30II Lite while they were 10% off, and am pretty satisfied with it. Again, it didn't blow my mind or anything. It just sounds like a step up from the mid-priced SACD and CD players of 15 to 20 years ago. That was worth it to me because I needed a standalone DAC for my Raspberry Pi music player.
So, is that the best that can be done? As I see it, the contenders are:
Topping:
E30 II Lite - $100
D10S - $110
D10 Balanced - $140
E30 II - $150
E50 - $200
D50 III - $230 (US)
(add extra cost for tariff?)
SMSL:
SU1 - $80
SU6 - $170
D6S - $200
(tariff costs?)
SCHIIT:
Modi - $130 (Is this the "made in the US, cheaper alternatives" mentioned above?)
Modi Multibit - $300 (stretching it a bit here)
I'm sure there are others to consider, but this is what I know of.
Out of the above, who has heard what, and what did you think of the sound? Can any of the above be considered 'excellent', or even 'very good'?
And finally, re: Schiit Modi...
With their Modi models, Schiit is competing directly with the <$300 Chinese DACs as listed above. I don't think we can ignore them within the confines of this thread. The connection is so obvious.
(Sorry for all the edits. I posted it too early and had to fix multiple flubs.)
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I will intentionally buy a used Modi with AKM if I find it at auction for a low price to compare it with SU-1
I bought a Schiit Magni with the DAC for my daughter. Cost about 189 bucks plus tax and shipping.
It replaces a Nuforce uDAC3 that developed a loose microUSB connector.
Running the Magni off the USB from a Windows 11 Pro machine into a pair of Quad 9LD active speakers. It sounds really good. It sounds a lot better then the older uDAC3 and didn't require a Windows driver.
IMHO, I'm beginning to believe that the analog drive part of the DAC is as important as the DAC itself. That's why all of my current DAC can drive headphones and operate as preamps... even though I run them with the digital volume disabled and keep the analog volume at unity.
It replaces a Nuforce uDAC3 that developed a loose microUSB connector.
Running the Magni off the USB from a Windows 11 Pro machine into a pair of Quad 9LD active speakers. It sounds really good. It sounds a lot better then the older uDAC3 and didn't require a Windows driver.
IMHO, I'm beginning to believe that the analog drive part of the DAC is as important as the DAC itself. That's why all of my current DAC can drive headphones and operate as preamps... even though I run them with the digital volume disabled and keep the analog volume at unity.
Real diy kits (components and pcb boards plus instructions or already pre-soldered units) under 200 US$ can be found at member's Abraxalito pages (all old school multibit DACs 😵 😉)
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...&c[content]=thread&c[users]=abraxalito&o=date
George
Now we are back to possibly missing the excellent part of "excellent and inexpensive."
I will say that the Abraxalito dac I heard was very good for the price (TDA1387-based), and since then he has been making versions with much more elaborate passive output filters, among other improvements. That said, I don't think TDA1387 would be right for me in a standalone system. For one thing, I would want DSD256 support.
I will say that the Abraxalito dac I heard was very good for the price (TDA1387-based), and since then he has been making versions with much more elaborate passive output filters, among other improvements. That said, I don't think TDA1387 would be right for me in a standalone system. For one thing, I would want DSD256 support.
In my business we say... "good, fast, cheap... take two, you can't have all three"
The stuff I've been talking about it pushes the "cheap" part.
Now you added one more... "good, fast, cheap and DSD"...
What next. a jewelry case? I mean.. you are pushing it.
...
If we want to push... look for a used Nuforce UDAC5. It has DSC and a USB-B connector. In fact, all UDACs, except for the UDAC3, had the USB-B. The UDAC3 went with a microUSB connector... a truly crappy connector, I just threw one away because the connector failed and it wasn't worth fixing.
Indeed, I just found a UDAC5 on eBay. The guy wants 100 bucks ( he'd dreaming, fishing ) but he's a dealer so I offered 50 bucks, which is fair. If he takes it, I'll use to replace the UDAC2 I got upstairs, if not, well, I'll look.
BTW, the UDC5 supports DSD. It needs a driver for a PC but not for Android/Apple.
EDIT:
https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-optoma-udac5
also, look at the Schiit Fulla
https://www.schiit.com/products/fulla-2
The stuff I've been talking about it pushes the "cheap" part.
Now you added one more... "good, fast, cheap and DSD"...
What next. a jewelry case? I mean.. you are pushing it.
...
If we want to push... look for a used Nuforce UDAC5. It has DSC and a USB-B connector. In fact, all UDACs, except for the UDAC3, had the USB-B. The UDAC3 went with a microUSB connector... a truly crappy connector, I just threw one away because the connector failed and it wasn't worth fixing.
Indeed, I just found a UDAC5 on eBay. The guy wants 100 bucks ( he'd dreaming, fishing ) but he's a dealer so I offered 50 bucks, which is fair. If he takes it, I'll use to replace the UDAC2 I got upstairs, if not, well, I'll look.
BTW, the UDC5 supports DSD. It needs a driver for a PC but not for Android/Apple.
EDIT:
https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-optoma-udac5
also, look at the Schiit Fulla
https://www.schiit.com/products/fulla-2
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Modified or stock?
Yes I believe it's more about the stuff around the DAC chip than the DAC chip itself. Much more perhaps. As long as it's a fair modern chip for example. I mean the best chips cost nothing relative to expensive DACs.
Topping is active in the used market.
In January I bought an almost brand new, with the box and all the parts, Topping D90LE for $400, including shipping. It works perfectly.
BTW, Amazon is running a Flash Sale on the WiiM Ultra right now... $279.65. I just got another.
@Monstercore What brand is that?
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Yes, I have one of the better regarded ones, but it's not available anymore (as far as I can tell).
Allo Boss I2S DAC 'HAT' v1.2 based on PCM5122 chip -
https://www.allo.com/sparky/boss-dac.html
It's pretty cheap at $79 for the DAC itself and another $50 for an outboard PSU to go with it.
I have one, and used it for a few years (with an ethernet connection from RPi to router). I enjoy the sound from it very much, but for some reason it knocks out the WiFi adapter in my Raspberry Pi. That's why I switched to the USB DAC, so I could use the RPi with a WiFi connection to my home network.
I also got interested in playing some DSF (DSD) files I'd purchased, and the Boss DAC's PCM5122 doesn't support direct DSD playback of any higher sampling rate than 'DSD64' (2.82 MHz). I had purchased some hi-res DSD downloads at DSD128 and DSD256 and wanted to play them, so that's another reason I switched to a USB DAC.
There are cheaper (like $25 USD) DAC HATs for RPi, but I haven't owned or heard any of them.
https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/dac-pro/
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Thee Topping and SMSL DACs (and others) support up to DSD512.
Do people think those sound actually bad? Noticeably worse (more 'digital' and/or 'harsh') than Schiit Modi?
Also, there is music playback software that offers DoP (DSD over PCM) which can allow you to play DSF files through PCM-only converters. These can convert the 1-bit DSD data to 32-bit/384kHz PCM for playback through PCM-only DACs. I believe the Schiit Modi can play back up to 24bit/192kHz, so you could use a DoP conversion to that sample rate and play the DSF files, even if they are DSD512 or whatever -- as long as the software you use offers that.
Does the Schiit Modi support DoP?
EDIT TO ADD - I opened up my MoOde Audio Player settings. It seems the DAC has to support DoP playback or it won't be able to play back DSD files at all. I think the Schiit Modi might not support DoP at all. That might have to do with limitations of the Unison I2S to USB interface.
Do people think those sound actually bad? Noticeably worse (more 'digital' and/or 'harsh') than Schiit Modi?
Also, there is music playback software that offers DoP (DSD over PCM) which can allow you to play DSF files through PCM-only converters. These can convert the 1-bit DSD data to 32-bit/384kHz PCM for playback through PCM-only DACs. I believe the Schiit Modi can play back up to 24bit/192kHz, so you could use a DoP conversion to that sample rate and play the DSF files, even if they are DSD512 or whatever -- as long as the software you use offers that.
Does the Schiit Modi support DoP?
EDIT TO ADD - I opened up my MoOde Audio Player settings. It seems the DAC has to support DoP playback or it won't be able to play back DSD files at all. I think the Schiit Modi might not support DoP at all. That might have to do with limitations of the Unison I2S to USB interface.
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