Anyone with listening experience on EMS LB 12 EX 12" full range field coil driver

[tgroendahl]

Anyone with listening experience on EMS LB 12 EX 12" full range field coil driver

http://www.emspeaker.com/fiche_LB12EX.pdf

 

[Inductor]

Nice driver. The last price of the FR speaker/pair, named MADOTEC - "Enceinte Bleue", was about 8,900.00 EUR = 12,232.82 USD.
Madotec, audio haut de gamme
L'Enceinte Bleue | Site officiel de l'Enceinte Bleue

 

[tgroendahl]

Price for a pair of raw drivers should be around 2.000 EUR. Thought of using them in an aperiodic enclosure, but curious what they sound like.

 

[Inductor]

It will be an interesting experience (... and expensive.)
I can give you a link for a forum/thread where you can post a message asking for "likes" and/or linking to your thread.
Just leave a message there, for them to visit and leave their opinion here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/212953-project-ryu-diy-field-coil-loudspeaker.html

Plus, I have the musical audition of this speakers in a magazine.
The name is "Stereo Prestige & Image nº 84 Decembre 2013" - "Madotec Enceinte Bleue" you can read it here.

http://lenceintebleue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/s-i-84a.jpg
http://lenceintebleue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/s-i-84b.jpg
http://lenceintebleue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/s-i-84c.jpg
http://lenceintebleue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/s-i-84d.jpg
http://lenceintebleue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/s-i-84e.jpg

14.12.2013 / Banc d’essai de l’Enceinte Bleue dans Stéréo & Image Prestige n°84 de décembre 2013

Synthèse de l’esthétique sonore selon Patrick Vercher et Benjamin Boucaut :

« Une restitution des plus musicales dans toute l’acceptation du terme (…) avec un sentiment de plénitude sonore qui atteint des sommets »

À bientôt.

 

[Alexsk]

EMS LB12EX

I'm running LB12EX in ~43L enclosure, no crossover on LB12 + Fostex t500a mkii high-pass 12dB @10kHz + REL T5 @60Hz
I’m not yet ready to go to too much details, speakers are working for just a few week, but first impression is very good, refine and very dynamic. Very sensitive to a field coil power supply quality.

 

[MITsound]

I'm running LB12EX in ~43L enclosure, no crossover on LB12 + Fostex t500a mkii high-pass 12dB @10kHz + REL T5 @60Hz
I’m not yet ready to go to too much details, speakers are working for just a few week, but first impression is very good, refine and very dynamic. Very sensitive to a field coil power supply quality.

I wonder if a gel pack battery power supply would work well.
Wheelchair batteries are fairly compact and robust, these days.

 

[Alexsk]

Should be OK, but you will have no ability to adjust exc. current.
With the ability to change field coil current from let's say 0.8A to 1.5A you basically have infinite number of differently sounding speakers in your room.
BTW, voice coil is 16ohm, field coil is 8ohm.

 

[beto1]

EMS LB12EX vs LB12MKII

I'm running LB12EX in ~43L enclosure, no crossover on LB12 + Fostex t500a mkii high-pass 12dB @10kHz + REL T5 @60Hz
I’m not yet ready to go to too much details, speakers are working for just a few week, but first impression is very good, refine and very dynamic. Very sensitive to a field coil power supply quality.

Hello Alexsk,
you have had the chance to compare the EMS LB12EX field coil driver vs the EMS LB12 MKII? On the paper both have similar the same numbers, besides the voltage adjusting capability of the field coil PSU that give differents sensitivities.
The MKII driver gives fixed 97.5 dB that is equal to the maximum EX sensitivity at the maximum its possible voltage.
900 euros vs 400 euros; how different they sound?
Regards
p.s. Btw, I have recently opened a thread about this topic

 

[mirekti]

Bump!

 

[Alexsk]

No, I did not have a chance to compare the lb12ex with the mk2 directly. I had a chance to listen to lb12 mk2 in totally different setup, it is very nice speaker, but personally I prefer field coil drivers for the number of reasons, one is the ability to fine tune sound by adjusting exc. current.
Again, quality of the power supply is very important. I use 12v battery as a reference and took me some time to get the PS right.

 

[mirekti]

Like a car battery?
How long can you use it before recharging?
I googled a bit, but cannot find many info on FC power supply, not even commercial ones.

 

[Alexsk]

I use batteries from huge datacentre class UPS.
Power supply I ended with is non-regulated choke input L-C-(R)L-C I tried all kind of regulated/adjustable PS from lab to LM1084 and prefer just a filter.
Additional R inserted in series with the second L to adjust output.

 

[beto1]

Hello Alexsk,

No, I did not have a chance to compare the lb12ex with the mk2 directly. I had a chance to listen to lb12 mk2 in totally different setup, it is very nice speaker, but personally I prefer field coil drivers for the number of reasons, one is the ability to fine tune sound by adjusting exc. current.

Yes, that is a good feature. You can match the driver with your room more easy. But what else? I mean, maybe one can match the permanent magnet model also with the room with a proper placement, so at that moment, both will be equally good...but I guess there are some other issues, like dynamics or ability to reproduce fine details, etc. Can you share a little more?
regards

 

[Alexsk]

Hello Alexsk,

Yes, that is a good feature. You can match the driver with your room more easy. But what else? I mean, maybe one can match the permanent magnet model also with the room with a proper placement, so at that moment, both will be equally good...but I guess there are some other issues, like dynamics or ability to reproduce fine details, etc. Can you share a little more?
regards

Hi,
first of all I doubt you can change driver Q from 0.2 to 0.8 by moving speaker around your room.
As for the sound, I prefer field coil in all aspects of the sound: dynamics, ability to reproduce fine details (ability to play complex music), phase accuracy (soundstage) etc.
Keep in mind I'm not using lb12ex "full range", but wide range ~100hz -10K in a sealed enclousere. You can get it go down to ~40Hz with nasty ported bass sound.

 

[beto1]

Hi,
first of all I doubt you can change driver Q from 0.2 to 0.8 by moving speaker around your room.

Well, yes, depends more on the enclosure design, of course, so you have one shot, but can be fine tuning withe the placement.

As for the sound, I prefer field coil in all aspects of the sound: dynamics, ability to reproduce fine details (ability to play complex music), phase accuracy (soundstage) etc.

that was exactly what I want to know. You know, the permanent magnet model is a lot cheaper, so at the end one need to know if the extra money give that much on the fine detail and dynamics and if this model worth over the regular fostex and other low cost full range drivers.
I'm not doubt about the 12EX, there are enough good comments and people like Musical Affairs use it on their new productions.

Keep in mind I'm not using lb12ex "full range", but wide range ~100hz -10K in a sealed enclousere. You can get it go down to ~40Hz with nasty ported bass sound.

And that is a very important part for me: "bass departament". I was thinking in an open baffle "a la Musical Affairs", but I'm concern on the low frequencies. The only review that I have read on such enclosure is the one by DHRob that claims can go around 43 Hz . By the way, maybe that's enough to me on my around 23 M2 room.
I'm not sure if I want to use them on a closed enclosure or in TQWT like the people of EMS advice when you ask about their drivers Rencontre au sommet (according to EMS, the extension of the frequencies in this cabinet is that of the speaker is 35Hz to 16KHz and workes equaly well with the f.c. and permanent magnet model).
If I can't get the money to the filed coil version, maybe I will get the permanent magnet and I don't want to have a nasty surprise if I don't know in advace how "worst" are comparied to the well regarded field coil sibling. Acording to Cathering from EMS "the sound difference is very subtle". Well, we are here trying to understand that phrase.DHTRob - A Mini open baffle with customized EMS units He use a modify 12EX version.
Finally, can you share a picture of your speakers?
Regards,

 

[mirekti]

I also saw the work of Musical Affairs, but Ms. Fertin replied to one of my mails LB12EX is not suitable for open baffle. ???

 

[Alexsk]

And that is a very important part for me: "bass department". I was thinking in an open baffle "a la Musical Affairs", but I'm concern on the low frequencies.


Can't comment on that. Personally I think open baffle is a waist of resources.
Here is my speaker ( without bass channel ).

 

[norman bates]

I've had the phy open baffle with a qts .4 driver (2' deep wings).
No bass.

Excellent voice though.

 

[beto1]

And that is a very important part for me: "bass department". I was thinking in an open baffle "a la Musical Affairs", but I'm concern on the low frequencies.

well, DHTRob claims that he gets 43 Hz on his OB. That is enough for small to medium room sizes....of course one want more always.

Can't comment on that. Personally I think open baffle is a waist of resources.
Here is my speaker ( without bass channel ).

And what woofer or SW are you using for the below 100Hz?
Interesting to see projects around this drivers. You add a tweeter also....have you tried without the tweeter? according to the specification they only can deliver 15000, maybe a little less I guess, but I believe that the impact ins not that noticiable as the bass extension---or I'm wrong?
Cathy told me that some of shes customers use just a capacitor as a minimal crossover to match the 12EX...
Thank you again for sharing
By the way, your speaker looks great. Nice work on the cabinet.

 

[Alexsk]

well, DHTRob claims that he gets 43 Hz on his OB. That is enough for small to medium room sizes....of course one want more always.

And what woofer or SW are you using for the below 100Hz?
Interesting to see projects around this drivers. You add a tweeter also....have you tried without the tweeter? according to the specification they only can deliver 15000, maybe a little less I guess, but I believe that the impact ins not that noticiable as the bass extension---or I'm wrong?
Cathy told me that some of shes customers use just a capacitor as a minimal crossover to match the 12EX...
Thank you again for sharing

SW are (temporary on loan) pair of REL T5. Eventually there will be line array with dedicated amp., but RELs, actually not bad at all...
Tweeter: I tried without, I tried RAAl lazy ribbon and end with Fostex 500-mk2 , crossed at ~10khz (or 12 ?), 2nd order and auto transformer.
Around this driver, tweeter would be my last worry. First would be to decide on the type of enclosure. From personal experience I would not go OB route (in my opinion you wont get bass with it anyways and will need another solution for bass. Also you will turn your room into device that you will need to tune to get the speaker play right if it possible at all with OB).
As for the TQWT, back loaded horns, ported cabinet etc. you can get some kind of "bass" mostly "one note" and ruin mids and lower mids.
Again, it is my opinion and nothing more...