I've seen a number of 12" subwoofer drivers with smooth response up to 300Hz and higher.
Is there a problem with crossover as high as 150Hz that I'm not grocking?
Is there a problem with crossover as high as 150Hz that I'm not grocking?
it's fine if used as a woofer (one for each speaker). if using only one, it doesn't work well since frequencies > 100Hz are directional.
In my design, it would be a stereo pair of subwoofers, each well within one wavelength (at 150Hz) of the mid driver.cotdt said:
Be careful with Hi-Fi drivers, because size is *not* what defines the ability of a speaker to behave properly at higher frequencies.
There are lots of 12" PA drivers that may be happily crossed over at 1500Hz with a tweeter and still sound fine, while there are also terrible 12" Hi-Fi and Car subs that start to show strange behaviour just above 100Hz.
Also, enclosure colouration due to standing waves, and notches and peaks due to internal box reflections can ruin the mid-bass response of any system. Paralell walls should be avoided completely when a driver playing mid-bass is mounted in a big enclosure.
There are lots of 12" PA drivers that may be happily crossed over at 1500Hz with a tweeter and still sound fine, while there are also terrible 12" Hi-Fi and Car subs that start to show strange behaviour just above 100Hz.
Also, enclosure colouration due to standing waves, and notches and peaks due to internal box reflections can ruin the mid-bass response of any system. Paralell walls should be avoided completely when a driver playing mid-bass is mounted in a big enclosure.
I'm actually quite interested in this too, as I will be building two subs using the 12" Dayton Reference HO powered by a Behringer EP2500. I have always found that my bass was "dippy", and thought that crossing over higher might solve that problem - looking forward to responses.
Can those particular drivers be crossed over this high?
Can those particular drivers be crossed over this high?
mine is crossed at 500hz... I did glue a circle of felt to the distcap though. That makes them sound quite lovely. The surround damps the outer edge of the cone. I used gule stick to glue on the felt. It is cool because water will quickly disole the glue if i ever choose to remove it. sounds good!
The main limiting factor in many subs is accuracy. I've crossed my subs with a 4th order filter at 80 Hz and prefer a lower xo point. It depends on how well your sub driver performs up that high. If your driver is happy operating up as high as 80 Hz then there is good reason to cross at this point and no higher, and even consider putting both subs together in one corner, but there are a lot of ifs and buts on this one.
The measurements I've seen of the Dayton Reference show its frequency response is only flat until about 200 Hz, then usable until 1kHz. Can't remember the source, but have casually measured mine with similar results.
Lee
Lee
Stereo subs with bandwidth limited mid/tweet setups is a great way to go imho. Gives you tons of flexibility in terms of design- you can easily squeeze 98dB w/m out of a small 2 way if it doesn't have to do *any* bass, opening up the door to the lovely world of SET without having to use humongous speakers, sacrifice low frequency extension, or shell out for a 211.
<edit> This of course requires subs that sound good up high, as should be obvious </edit>
<edit> This of course requires subs that sound good up high, as should be obvious </edit>
High depends on the driver. 200Hz is about the limit for most plate amps, so if you're using off the shelf subs, that's what you've gotta look for- a quality sub that the crossover can go to 200 on. But many (prosound especially) larger drivers are happy up to 400-500, even as high as 1k. So it all depends on... well... um.... everything....
The Dayton Reference 12" HF sub works really well up high and would be ideal for this application. I'm trying 250Hz LR4 with a Linkwitz transform circuit. 3-way with a 12" high excursion woofer is the best way to go in my opinion. allows the most options too. people have used this sub to 500Hz before and reported good results.
I'll be using a pro sound amp to power both subs, with an active crossover as well, so if those drivers can go high, that's what I plan to do! =)
All I'm interested in is dip-free bass. I love the nice deep rumble, but I hate when it cuts out as soon as the bass gets past a critical point - and it's usually quite dramatic.
EDIT : I noticed the previous poster mentioned the HF subs - what about the HO ones? I am planning one having each one in a box whose internal proportions are the same as the Drake project on Parts Express, powered by a Behringer EP2500 (700W X 2 at 4 ohms).
All I'm interested in is dip-free bass. I love the nice deep rumble, but I hate when it cuts out as soon as the bass gets past a critical point - and it's usually quite dramatic.
EDIT : I noticed the previous poster mentioned the HF subs - what about the HO ones? I am planning one having each one in a box whose internal proportions are the same as the Drake project on Parts Express, powered by a Behringer EP2500 (700W X 2 at 4 ohms).
The HF subs can play higher than the HO versions since they have lower inductance. The HF version is tested to have low distortion up to 1kHz, but might have energy storage issues before that, but for sure 300Hz LR4 is fine. I don't know how well the HO version will work. Also, the HO version has limited xmax.
I have no problem testing this sub out if you can give me a good prescription for doing so. I have speaker workshop and a mic.
LR4 = Linkwitz-Reiley 4? What does this mean specifically wrt crossover topology?
Also, what kind of box should I use with the HF version of the 12" Dayton RS sub?
Also, what kind of box should I use with the HF version of the 12" Dayton RS sub?
That is one of the drivers I am taking a close look at. It certainly looks very cool, and also specs very nicely.cotdt said:
The other two candidates are NHT 1259 and Sonicraft SC1250.
Is two of those Dayton HF 12" drivers enough if crossed over at 250 Hz? Or should I go with four (my amp is 2-ohm stable)? I am concerned about the considerably increased workload for the subs if crossed over high..
Also, two cubic feet - I assume that's sealed, then?
Also, two cubic feet - I assume that's sealed, then?
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