Some people like the Aesthetic and Nostalgia of older equipment.
Recently manufactures now make retro looking equipment.
Aesthetically it sells.
Of course all mostly D class and switch mode.
When they all fail in 3 to 10 years.
The older stuff goes about 20 to 30 years before maintenance
Recently manufactures now make retro looking equipment.
Aesthetically it sells.
Of course all mostly D class and switch mode.
When they all fail in 3 to 10 years.
The older stuff goes about 20 to 30 years before maintenance
For my response to this thread I will just post a string of thoughts that come to mind >
There is more than one kind of "Antique gear". There is Good, Bad and everything in between, but little is truly exceptional.
There is today something known as: Planed/designed Obsolesce. This why sometimes 'you get what you pay for'.
In the 1970's, Japan had quite a 'hay day' of making some really good gear. Many 'revered' items were actually made in Japan.
MARANTZ > I was a Marantz warranty service technician for 3 years.
I own a Marantz 240 power amp, but I don't use it because my newer power amplifier is so far superior.
The USA made 240 fetches high bucks for collectors.
Today people are re-making their Dynaco amps with a simple ChipAmp with better > Noise, Distortion and Bandwidth/Slew rate.
FET technology barley existed in the 1970's.
Going back in time - Power levels & SPL started very low. A funny 'twist' is that ceramic phono cartridges had much higher voltage output.
Speaking of cartridges, the rubber as part of your Stylus is changing over time due to Age + Temperature & Chemicals.
Todays capacitors are far superior regarding - ESR, Life & Q .
When the simple LM741 launched, a new standard of low/medium current amplification was set > but todays OpAmps are very far superior.
Interestingly, the Crown DC 300A using an OpAmp & the V2.0 of output transistors does not have the 'Highest Regard' in the subject (?)
( it actually reached the measurable limits of many 'testing people' )
Coral & a few other Japan companies have a super historic 'catalogue' of some High End drivers. Probably less acknowledged than should be.
I am quite amazed that before mass "Foam surround drivers", (that die &rot) there were so many really good corrugated/fabric surrounds.
The most amazing drivers of the 70's are still equal or beaten by todays VERY BEST DRIVERS 🙂
PS.
Because a stylus moves in an arc over the grooves > Tracking error distortion must exist.
There is more than one kind of "Antique gear". There is Good, Bad and everything in between, but little is truly exceptional.
There is today something known as: Planed/designed Obsolesce. This why sometimes 'you get what you pay for'.
In the 1970's, Japan had quite a 'hay day' of making some really good gear. Many 'revered' items were actually made in Japan.
MARANTZ > I was a Marantz warranty service technician for 3 years.
I own a Marantz 240 power amp, but I don't use it because my newer power amplifier is so far superior.
The USA made 240 fetches high bucks for collectors.
Today people are re-making their Dynaco amps with a simple ChipAmp with better > Noise, Distortion and Bandwidth/Slew rate.
FET technology barley existed in the 1970's.
Going back in time - Power levels & SPL started very low. A funny 'twist' is that ceramic phono cartridges had much higher voltage output.
Speaking of cartridges, the rubber as part of your Stylus is changing over time due to Age + Temperature & Chemicals.
Todays capacitors are far superior regarding - ESR, Life & Q .
When the simple LM741 launched, a new standard of low/medium current amplification was set > but todays OpAmps are very far superior.
Interestingly, the Crown DC 300A using an OpAmp & the V2.0 of output transistors does not have the 'Highest Regard' in the subject (?)
( it actually reached the measurable limits of many 'testing people' )
Coral & a few other Japan companies have a super historic 'catalogue' of some High End drivers. Probably less acknowledged than should be.
I am quite amazed that before mass "Foam surround drivers", (that die &rot) there were so many really good corrugated/fabric surrounds.
The most amazing drivers of the 70's are still equal or beaten by todays VERY BEST DRIVERS 🙂
PS.
Because a stylus moves in an arc over the grooves > Tracking error distortion must exist.
As an amateur organist I fully agree on tracker organs.
But not on the points of accuracy.
While the aforementioned nostalgia can certainly play a role, in my view the attraction to vintage objects is due to the pleasure that the feeling of honesty gives.
The honesty of those who designed and built things out of passion and to make them last, the enthusiasm of when resources seemed never-ending and the certainty of reliability.
I believe I've always had a strong attraction for cars that weren't brand new and for German ones in particular even when it couldn't be nostalgia simply because I hadn't lived through those times and therefore didn't even have the memories.
Maybe the attraction to vintage audio equipment on social media is simply an empty trend: I'm not on social media, but I'm pretty sure I've managed to extrapolate the meaning of trend.
At the time I don't think the word "consumer electronics" even existed, but there were audio equipment and cars that could last up to half a century.
Maybe showing vintage audio equipment on social media has a different meaning, it's like saying he is a person of experience because he knows how to recognize and he is not ashamed, indeed he boasts about showing off old equipment.
But as everyone knows, self-praise is no recommendation.
Last edited:
Please excuse if I did not realize what you meant: you give a Like to my post and then you quote part of it attaching a video of a song called Liar (that I din't know) and then you ask for excuse of an offtopic.
Can you explain?
I loved your use of the words "HONESTY" and "PASSION" ( a lot of one seems lacking these days )
SO - I posted a music track about the opposite situation to HONESTY > That is a LIAR >
Topically, it is analogous to a 180 DEGREE PHASE SHIFT !
SO - I posted a music track about the opposite situation to HONESTY > That is a LIAR >
Topically, it is analogous to a 180 DEGREE PHASE SHIFT !
Last edited:
I'm glad for that.
They were golden times and we didn't know it.
There were more resources, more time and more desire to do.
Most of all, more feelings.
We were simpler and more real.
Today it seems almost that we should be ashamed of noble human feelings...
IMHO
They were golden times and we didn't know it.
There were more resources, more time and more desire to do.
Most of all, more feelings.
We were simpler and more real.
Today it seems almost that we should be ashamed of noble human feelings...
IMHO
I would say more, SOME human feelings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues
PS.
I am not religious.
Last edited:
@Mister Audio
Please note that our posts got a bit mixed up and I've no idea what the above equation is.
Just for the record, I was answering your sentence in the following order:
Please note that our posts got a bit mixed up and I've no idea what the above equation is.
Just for the record, I was answering your sentence in the following order:
Sorry if I've no idea what this equation is... 🙁
A lot of older stuff was highly coveted and people have significant nostalgia and appreciation of the aesthetics, build quality/techniques and sound. Even the less high end stuff tended to be relatively expensive, which adds to the perception of its value, and meant people would buy with quite some care then look after their hifi equipment for many years. The 70s isn't exactly pre-history for lots of us, and many (somewhat) younger people will have owned and also coveted the same equipment passed down or bought second-hand. In those senses it can be really quite special; even just looking at some of the lovely systems DIYaudio members have posted pictures of is enjoyable to me.
As for the sound, well that is MUCH more tricky. People tend to hear what they want or expect to, whether it exists or not (and in spite of believing they have golden ears, some audiophiles are amongst the most deluded listeners that I've ever experienced). What can actually be said is that for an old peice of equipment to 'really' sound special/different then by definition it can't be audibly transparent, but must have some kind of character (i.e. distortion) that a listener might like. Whether a piece of equipment has the particular character heard/claimed by another listener, or whether a particular person would like that character overlaid on all the music they themselves want to play.. IMO only first-hand auditioning and testing can tell, since it is at best going to be very personal preference.
There is also the tricky process of choosing a model and buying a good example, since they'll be in various states of condition and health (physically and audibly) as well as cost. Possibly followed by cleaning, renovation repair etc.; many on DIYaudio would be clued up on that and probably take great satisfaction in it. But non-technical people could be quite blind to the realities and possible pitfalls, or might pay for pre-renovated examples at great expense and little understanding of the work that was done (or not done); e.g. some 'renovators' might just swap out or 'upgrade' a few random components with no testing.
All that said, a lot of audiophile-related social (and other) media that I've seen involves enthusiasts and influencers essentially pushing myths and selling snake-oil to each other. So any realities one might try to offer are probably not going to be accepted in certain circles, and conversely one shouldn't take what they choose to believe as necessarily having any basis in fact.
As for the sound, well that is MUCH more tricky. People tend to hear what they want or expect to, whether it exists or not (and in spite of believing they have golden ears, some audiophiles are amongst the most deluded listeners that I've ever experienced). What can actually be said is that for an old peice of equipment to 'really' sound special/different then by definition it can't be audibly transparent, but must have some kind of character (i.e. distortion) that a listener might like. Whether a piece of equipment has the particular character heard/claimed by another listener, or whether a particular person would like that character overlaid on all the music they themselves want to play.. IMO only first-hand auditioning and testing can tell, since it is at best going to be very personal preference.
There is also the tricky process of choosing a model and buying a good example, since they'll be in various states of condition and health (physically and audibly) as well as cost. Possibly followed by cleaning, renovation repair etc.; many on DIYaudio would be clued up on that and probably take great satisfaction in it. But non-technical people could be quite blind to the realities and possible pitfalls, or might pay for pre-renovated examples at great expense and little understanding of the work that was done (or not done); e.g. some 'renovators' might just swap out or 'upgrade' a few random components with no testing.
All that said, a lot of audiophile-related social (and other) media that I've seen involves enthusiasts and influencers essentially pushing myths and selling snake-oil to each other. So any realities one might try to offer are probably not going to be accepted in certain circles, and conversely one shouldn't take what they choose to believe as necessarily having any basis in fact.
Last edited:
@Kev06 And don't forget that speakers are what you hear. I have the idea (but I cannot prove it in any way) that 1970-ies speakers sounded differently from today's. Unfortunately virtually all drivers manufactured then are since long not available anymore. And the systems which survived must be aged by now. Ageing severely affects drivers, especially the suspension.
Sorry, I should have written something above 'The Equation' >
It is actually a mathematical representation of more than one thing. In this case it is used for Yin & Yang, where C = the full circle
and the X & Y components = the Dots found in the Symbol.
Because I found a 'blank post', I (stupidly) filled it with the equation using edit > to elaborate on the words: Honesty and Liar.
( I very rarely 'binge on Bourbon' - woops )
No sorry needed, you just did it and however I like your comment(s).
Thanks for your appreciated explanation. 🙂
[OT]
Life is made up of many things, some of which seem irrational, but not everything can be converted into a "message" that humans can easily understand according to their logic.
Recently, simply for saying that one's actions could be governed by inner moral law someone asked to delete the post because it contained esoteric nonsense.
Of course I didn't care at all, but "esoteric nonsense" seemed really very irrational to me... 😊
[/OT]
This thread has inspired me to warm up my Onkyo A5 and have a listen. I power it up every few months to give the capacitors a charge, but haven't listened to it for some years.
I just don't want to get rid of it because I love the 70's Japanese build quality (and I have the matching tuner and cassette deck).
I just don't want to get rid of it because I love the 70's Japanese build quality (and I have the matching tuner and cassette deck).
Hi Matt888,
Speaking from experience of being in audio service for nearly 50 years, and in audio longer, the good equipment can be properly serviced. There are some new components and circuit techniques that really improve the sound quality and lower distortion on these units. I'm just finishing an old Marantz 300DC that performs better than quite a lot of current equipment. Some that perform better are vastly more expensive. There are others where the serviced performance is tough to beat. Sansui AU-517 and AU-717 for example. Even the ancient Marantz 500 is really difficult to beat once serviced.
There is poor product from every era, but at least the older equipment will last decades more. They are repairable too. Then they look nicer, and the build quality is generally far better than today's equipment. Even a tube unit like a McIntosh MC60 is hard to beat.
There are very few amplifiers I could stomach in my living room of new manufacture. I have a few older products from various manufacturers that perform extremely well and drive inefficient speakers (4R, 86 dB/watt) better than most new products will.
Speaking from experience of being in audio service for nearly 50 years, and in audio longer, the good equipment can be properly serviced. There are some new components and circuit techniques that really improve the sound quality and lower distortion on these units. I'm just finishing an old Marantz 300DC that performs better than quite a lot of current equipment. Some that perform better are vastly more expensive. There are others where the serviced performance is tough to beat. Sansui AU-517 and AU-717 for example. Even the ancient Marantz 500 is really difficult to beat once serviced.
There is poor product from every era, but at least the older equipment will last decades more. They are repairable too. Then they look nicer, and the build quality is generally far better than today's equipment. Even a tube unit like a McIntosh MC60 is hard to beat.
There are very few amplifiers I could stomach in my living room of new manufacture. I have a few older products from various manufacturers that perform extremely well and drive inefficient speakers (4R, 86 dB/watt) better than most new products will.