More bass, not lower, just more. A possible increase in ripple (althou in this region room effects dominate).
dave
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Hajj - comparing a single 6" driver to speakers with dual 12" woofers, dual 8" midranges and a very refined tweeter isn't quite a fair comparison, but at low volumes the differences aren't as great as I thought they might be. The Avros can withstand a great deal of punishment without showing very many signs of distress. By contrast, I'm trying to be gentle to the Alpairs as they break in, so I haven't pushed them yet.
Their midrange is quite nice - listening to Mark Knopfler right now and really enjoying what I am hearing. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" on vinyl sounds very nice as well. I continue to be impressed with their bass output for such a "small" driver. Midrange is rather nice - almost startling when listening to Mark Knopfler's voice. They don't yet throw an expansive soundstage like the open baffle Avros do (open baffles excel here), but there is something very distinct and nice that I can't quite put into words right now. The current sound stage is much wider than with the THX speakers I've been using for 20 years now.
My early conclusion is that these speakers sound better than any $80 6" driver has the right to. Cheers to Mark, ScottMoose, ChrisB, and Dave for some incredible synergy between driver and cabinet designs. Someone mentioned earlier being happy using these without a sub and I clearly agree (though, I'll turn my sub back on some time soon, I'm sure - just love the way it hits!)
My primary goal for these was to have a nice single-driver speaker with reasonable sensitivity for a 300B tube amp I'm working on. These are clearly VERY nice speakers and I need to finish breaking them in for a few more weeks...
Their midrange is quite nice - listening to Mark Knopfler right now and really enjoying what I am hearing. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" on vinyl sounds very nice as well. I continue to be impressed with their bass output for such a "small" driver. Midrange is rather nice - almost startling when listening to Mark Knopfler's voice. They don't yet throw an expansive soundstage like the open baffle Avros do (open baffles excel here), but there is something very distinct and nice that I can't quite put into words right now. The current sound stage is much wider than with the THX speakers I've been using for 20 years now.
My early conclusion is that these speakers sound better than any $80 6" driver has the right to. Cheers to Mark, ScottMoose, ChrisB, and Dave for some incredible synergy between driver and cabinet designs. Someone mentioned earlier being happy using these without a sub and I clearly agree (though, I'll turn my sub back on some time soon, I'm sure - just love the way it hits!)
My primary goal for these was to have a nice single-driver speaker with reasonable sensitivity for a 300B tube amp I'm working on. These are clearly VERY nice speakers and I need to finish breaking them in for a few more weeks...
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Very difficult to resist the urge to push these more right now...
Hi Eric,
My experience so far mirrors yours in post 83 almost exactly - even down to the same music. I say almost because I haven't been as gentle to mine during break-in as you.
I wouldn't go quite as far as to say I've abused them, but let's just say they've so far taken everything an ST-70 in triode mode can throw at them (if I were writing an automotive review I'd be obligated by long-standing tradition to say that they "handled it with aplomb" - but I'm not going there...).
Anyway, I think the word that best describes these drivers is "subtle". I've been surprised at the music that has and hasn't sounded good through them. Moreso than a lot of other drivers, these really seem to be able to reveal strengths and weaknesses in the source. Well-engineered and mastered recordings like the ones you mentioned sound wonderful, while those that aren't sound horrible (Genesis' And Then Three... leaps to mind). YMMV, of course.
So glad you're enjoying these. I started mine this weekend, but it may take a while before they're finished as I've several projects going simultaneously. In the meantime I'm enjoying my little Golden Ratio Mini-Fonkens. Thanks - and keep us posted!
My experience so far mirrors yours in post 83 almost exactly - even down to the same music. I say almost because I haven't been as gentle to mine during break-in as you.
I wouldn't go quite as far as to say I've abused them, but let's just say they've so far taken everything an ST-70 in triode mode can throw at them (if I were writing an automotive review I'd be obligated by long-standing tradition to say that they "handled it with aplomb" - but I'm not going there...).Anyway, I think the word that best describes these drivers is "subtle". I've been surprised at the music that has and hasn't sounded good through them. Moreso than a lot of other drivers, these really seem to be able to reveal strengths and weaknesses in the source. Well-engineered and mastered recordings like the ones you mentioned sound wonderful, while those that aren't sound horrible (Genesis' And Then Three... leaps to mind). YMMV, of course.
So glad you're enjoying these. I started mine this weekend, but it may take a while before they're finished as I've several projects going simultaneously. In the meantime I'm enjoying my little Golden Ratio Mini-Fonkens. Thanks - and keep us posted!
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Well I may have outdone myself on that score, as I also seem to have omitted the "There Were" from And Then There Were Three...
*%#@ smartphone.
And below is what I really meant when I said I started mine.
No, that's not me in the background.
Yes, that's quartersawn Bubinga.
No, you really, really don't want to know what I paid for it.
*%#@ smartphone.
And below is what I really meant when I said I started mine.
No, that's not me in the background.
Yes, that's quartersawn Bubinga.
No, you really, really don't want to know what I paid for it.
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Looks like you have a nice start! Boy, you sure have a lot of work ahead!
Here are the final glamour shots of mine. The bookmatching on the baffle is easier to see when they are side by side. They sound lovely on music, though something sounds a little strange to my ear when listening to TV voices (like the news) - perhaps a pinch heavy in the midrange - but I would need to do some measurement to be sure. I think they need more break in and then I'll probably start playing with the stuffing level. I don't plan on making any changes until they get a few months on them. My vinyl sounds just awesome!
Here are the final glamour shots of mine. The bookmatching on the baffle is easier to see when they are side by side. They sound lovely on music, though something sounds a little strange to my ear when listening to TV voices (like the news) - perhaps a pinch heavy in the midrange - but I would need to do some measurement to be sure. I think they need more break in and then I'll probably start playing with the stuffing level. I don't plan on making any changes until they get a few months on them. My vinyl sounds just awesome!
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Thanks, Zman. It was a fun and interesting learning experience. Having never used veneer before, I was a bit apprehensive. But after a little bit of practice, I got the hang of it and managed to lay it down without any bubbles or ripples.
Sarathssca: I'll just remove the driver reach in to adjust the stuffing. I'm not particularly concerned about making the screw holes worse - bubinga wood is VERY dense, so I don't anticipate the screw holes falling apart from fatigue. As for cross threading, working with wood screws is exactly the same as machine screws - just turn the screw backwards a turn until you feel the thread "drop" and then tighten it down. With some care, it shouldn't cause any trouble at all. In the rare event that I might strip a hole, just stuff a toothpick or two into the hole along with a drop of glue and drive the screw home again.
Sarathssca: I'll just remove the driver reach in to adjust the stuffing. I'm not particularly concerned about making the screw holes worse - bubinga wood is VERY dense, so I don't anticipate the screw holes falling apart from fatigue. As for cross threading, working with wood screws is exactly the same as machine screws - just turn the screw backwards a turn until you feel the thread "drop" and then tighten it down. With some care, it shouldn't cause any trouble at all. In the rare event that I might strip a hole, just stuff a toothpick or two into the hole along with a drop of glue and drive the screw home again.
Nice job Eric! I've enjoyed your website, too. Although home theater isn't my thing (I'm a dedicated 2.1 guy), I'm in awe of anyone who's put that much thought and effort into fulfilling a dream. Simply excellent work.
I learned to do the "reverse thread drop" trick after I partially stripped the spark plug threads on an old pickup years ago. Nothing like bitter experience or a near-miss to change your SOP! Anyway, even threads in BB ply aren't a big deal as long as you drop the threads and don't crank down too hard when tightening the fasteners. Like so many other things in life, moderation is key...
I learned to do the "reverse thread drop" trick after I partially stripped the spark plug threads on an old pickup years ago. Nothing like bitter experience or a near-miss to change your SOP! Anyway, even threads in BB ply aren't a big deal as long as you drop the threads and don't crank down too hard when tightening the fasteners. Like so many other things in life, moderation is key...
Indeed - I always pre-tap with the supplied socket head screws, and will all of Mark's cast resin frames, care does need to be taken to not over tighten or use other screws with larger heads than those supplied. I still have trouble imagining just exactly what that a spinning "imaginary washer" would feel like - but like Frank said about Joe's last guitar solo -
"he has realized at last that imaginary guitar notes and imaginary vocals exist only in the imagination of The Imaginer . . . and . . . ultimately, who gives a ... "
as only FZ could phrase it .
oops, got kinda distracted there again
"he has realized at last that imaginary guitar notes and imaginary vocals exist only in the imagination of The Imaginer . . . and . . . ultimately, who gives a ... "
as only FZ could phrase it .
oops, got kinda distracted there again
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Absolutely - one of life's biggest lessons is "not to over do it."
I still have a hard time with being patient enough to allow projects to take more time, especially when working with finishing materials like lacquer, oils, paints, etc. I find it hard to walk away and give things proper time to dry before wanting to continue and get it done.
My theater project was excruciating - the entire process of starting with a bare concrete basement to what I have now took about 7 years.
I made one more tweak to my FHXLs - I added a base to keep the vacuum cleaner away from my nicely finished wooden cabinets. I used some glued-together scraps of BB ply, made it extend out about 3/4" on all sides, rounded the corners, hit the top with a 3/4" roundover bit in the router, and finally applied a few coats of textured truck bed liner. The resulting base is screwed to the bottom of the cabinet. It fits nicely with the textured black frame of the driver.
I still can't get over the amount of bass that is coaxed from these drivers. I'm contemplating picking up a pair of the 10P's for a comparison. Some of the recordings I have sound GREAT on the 10.3's, some sound a bit forward with the response hump in the driver. My usual reaction is that "flat" is boring, so I went for the 10.3. These are definitely more lively than I am accustomed to... Perhaps a bit blasphemous, but I'm toying with a notch filter to cut the hump a little. Is any project REALLY ever finished ?!?!
Edit:
Zenith: how are your speakers coming along? Are you going with the two-tone bubinga/birch look? I was surprised how good a combo this was while I was part-way through my construction... If I hadn't already dropped another $150 on the veneer, I would have stopped there.
I still have a hard time with being patient enough to allow projects to take more time, especially when working with finishing materials like lacquer, oils, paints, etc. I find it hard to walk away and give things proper time to dry before wanting to continue and get it done.
My theater project was excruciating - the entire process of starting with a bare concrete basement to what I have now took about 7 years.
I made one more tweak to my FHXLs - I added a base to keep the vacuum cleaner away from my nicely finished wooden cabinets. I used some glued-together scraps of BB ply, made it extend out about 3/4" on all sides, rounded the corners, hit the top with a 3/4" roundover bit in the router, and finally applied a few coats of textured truck bed liner. The resulting base is screwed to the bottom of the cabinet. It fits nicely with the textured black frame of the driver.
I still can't get over the amount of bass that is coaxed from these drivers. I'm contemplating picking up a pair of the 10P's for a comparison. Some of the recordings I have sound GREAT on the 10.3's, some sound a bit forward with the response hump in the driver. My usual reaction is that "flat" is boring, so I went for the 10.3. These are definitely more lively than I am accustomed to... Perhaps a bit blasphemous, but I'm toying with a notch filter to cut the hump a little. Is any project REALLY ever finished ?!?!
Edit:
Zenith: how are your speakers coming along? Are you going with the two-tone bubinga/birch look? I was surprised how good a combo this was while I was part-way through my construction... If I hadn't already dropped another $150 on the veneer, I would have stopped there.
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The same expression that we got from Mark when he auditioned the FHXL (w A10p) when we 1st got the initial demos done.
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Hi guys,
My speakers are coming along nicely. Haven't accomplished much for 2 weeks or so as I've been on extended business travel (and I'll hasten to add it was a fairly crappy trip at that). I did manage to audition one speaker before I left, and you guys were right. Incredible!
Who would have thought Bubinga and "truck bed liner black" would've made such a classy combination? True craftsmanship and genius at work!
I'm actually finishing my sides in curly maple veneer, though I was tempted to do a milky "Heywood-Wakefield"-style finish over the birch. Looks like it'll be beautiful - except that, like Eric, I can't seem to find the patience to let things dry properly...
My speakers are coming along nicely. Haven't accomplished much for 2 weeks or so as I've been on extended business travel (and I'll hasten to add it was a fairly crappy trip at that). I did manage to audition one speaker before I left, and you guys were right. Incredible!
Who would have thought Bubinga and "truck bed liner black" would've made such a classy combination? True craftsmanship and genius at work!
I'm actually finishing my sides in curly maple veneer, though I was tempted to do a milky "Heywood-Wakefield"-style finish over the birch. Looks like it'll be beautiful - except that, like Eric, I can't seem to find the patience to let things dry properly...
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