Hi Doug,
If I recall well I have read somewhere that the original LT from Frank have a kind of mechanical safety, I did not invent anything new as all was already well thought and very well done by Frank. We could not see it because in the real LT TA it is located under the plate as it is the mag rail. The mechanical guiding guide keep the mag within its attraction area, therefore the mag once is there it position on the perfect right point by itself.
I did not experiment much with different mags and soft steel wire diameter as it is a bit difficult for me to make the wire cam. For the mags is easy as I just need the different mags and an M4 bolt and 2 nuts brass material.
Now I use 1.2 mm wire, I have also 2,2mm wire as was suggested somewhere here, but need to make the support for it that not so easy for me, therefore try some time later.
Hope you can make a kind of safety mechanical channel and have more confidence using your LT clone.
Now I am building a kind of lifter as my hands not so steady lately. Some time ago I already broke a DL 103 managing a TA without lifter, I try to avoid to do it again.
Best rgds
Adelmo
If I recall well I have read somewhere that the original LT from Frank have a kind of mechanical safety, I did not invent anything new as all was already well thought and very well done by Frank. We could not see it because in the real LT TA it is located under the plate as it is the mag rail. The mechanical guiding guide keep the mag within its attraction area, therefore the mag once is there it position on the perfect right point by itself.
I did not experiment much with different mags and soft steel wire diameter as it is a bit difficult for me to make the wire cam. For the mags is easy as I just need the different mags and an M4 bolt and 2 nuts brass material.
Now I use 1.2 mm wire, I have also 2,2mm wire as was suggested somewhere here, but need to make the support for it that not so easy for me, therefore try some time later.
Hope you can make a kind of safety mechanical channel and have more confidence using your LT clone.
Now I am building a kind of lifter as my hands not so steady lately. Some time ago I already broke a DL 103 managing a TA without lifter, I try to avoid to do it again.
Best rgds
Adelmo
Carlo,
I have used flanged dental tool bearings for several projects because I get them free. They come from a friend who repairs dental tools so they are culls of his culls. The ones with no visible damage get cleaned, lubed, and tested for spin and noise. Installed, they mostly seem to work ok. New replacement equivalents are $30 or something close to $300 for my latest arms. A little steep for DIY.
I haven’t been able to think of any other machines that use low speed combined with low propulsive forces as in tonearms, except maybe fly casting reels. I checked and the bearings look good, but are pricey.
Doug
I have used flanged dental tool bearings for several projects because I get them free. They come from a friend who repairs dental tools so they are culls of his culls. The ones with no visible damage get cleaned, lubed, and tested for spin and noise. Installed, they mostly seem to work ok. New replacement equivalents are $30 or something close to $300 for my latest arms. A little steep for DIY.
I haven’t been able to think of any other machines that use low speed combined with low propulsive forces as in tonearms, except maybe fly casting reels. I checked and the bearings look good, but are pricey.
Doug
Adelmo, Doug - thanks for your interest and hints. I know very little about ball bearings, except to have, long ago, directly heard the consequences of chattering on a gimbal TA where it caused vibrating discontinuity of grounding, with terrifying sound effects.
Since then I think that a near 0 play BB is much more important than low friction and that, probably, high speed or ceramic are not the right solution*. I know that there are specific BBs (NSK?) for these tasks that I mentioned, but I really don't know how to get them.
c
* mine has been to use pin bearings or non recirculating balls whenever possible. Where not that 2 BBs counter pre-loaded are better than a single one, and often with lower friction, when offset loaded.
Since then I think that a near 0 play BB is much more important than low friction and that, probably, high speed or ceramic are not the right solution*. I know that there are specific BBs (NSK?) for these tasks that I mentioned, but I really don't know how to get them.
c
* mine has been to use pin bearings or non recirculating balls whenever possible. Where not that 2 BBs counter pre-loaded are better than a single one, and often with lower friction, when offset loaded.
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Hi Carlo,
Frank Schroeder suggested me in another forum NSK brand, but I did not buy as well. At the present I am using old Japanese bearings taken from old 5 inch floppy disk. They are a couple , a kind of pre load with a a thin spring washer and really have no play. Bearing are 8x16x5mm.
I also have to say that Frank suggested a kind of Kuzma 4 point bearing, but to me its precision machinery is out of my DIY reach.
Best regards
Adelmo
Frank Schroeder suggested me in another forum NSK brand, but I did not buy as well. At the present I am using old Japanese bearings taken from old 5 inch floppy disk. They are a couple , a kind of pre load with a a thin spring washer and really have no play. Bearing are 8x16x5mm.
I also have to say that Frank suggested a kind of Kuzma 4 point bearing, but to me its precision machinery is out of my DIY reach.
Best regards
Adelmo
However, how about Flexure dual tipe?
sorry, Adelmo, i hadn't understood to what you were referring - all the bad possible, imo
When I started making arms (long, long ago) I tried to simplify them as possible, making these two flexy V. articulation, the Hardy+Jelly: apart from the difficulty of the adjustments (eg VTF) they worked fine, but they sounded different.
With experience i noted that all the arms not completely rigid have this "signature", starting from the suspended ones VPI like.
I built a belted PTTA, the Rabbit, that worked well, but again it sounded different, because the elasticity of the belt allowed some tip micro advancements. This is the reason why I abandoned the Birch type PTTAs, and instead I greatly appreciate Doug's new arm.
carlo
sorry, Adelmo, i hadn't understood to what you were referring - all the bad possible, imo
When I started making arms (long, long ago) I tried to simplify them as possible, making these two flexy V. articulation, the Hardy+Jelly: apart from the difficulty of the adjustments (eg VTF) they worked fine, but they sounded different.
With experience i noted that all the arms not completely rigid have this "signature", starting from the suspended ones VPI like.
I built a belted PTTA, the Rabbit, that worked well, but again it sounded different, because the elasticity of the belt allowed some tip micro advancements. This is the reason why I abandoned the Birch type PTTAs, and instead I greatly appreciate Doug's new arm.
carlo
Attachments
Hi Carlo,
Actually I was referring to the Korf TA that is using Flexure dual type bearing, but only for the hoìrizontal motion.
Come one in another forum is using this TA and has given very positive comment.
Tks n rgds
Adelmo
Actually I was referring to the Korf TA that is using Flexure dual type bearing, but only for the hoìrizontal motion.
Come one in another forum is using this TA and has given very positive comment.
Tks n rgds
Adelmo
how about Flexure...
... were just my humble opinions, less, my tastes on the behavior of those arms made by myself. and their different flexy joints
I knew the early Vertere and Alexej''s first attempts, and his related difficulties encountered. This new joint seems interesting to me, even if doubts about the rigidity still remain.
c
... were just my humble opinions, less, my tastes on the behavior of those arms made by myself. and their different flexy joints
I knew the early Vertere and Alexej''s first attempts, and his related difficulties encountered. This new joint seems interesting to me, even if doubts about the rigidity still remain.
c
Hi,
Korf used this brand. dual type. Seems interesting but also seems not so cheap as well.
https://www.flexpivots.com/
I value the experience from every one about bearings as mine is one of the most limited in regard DIY TA. One of the best sounding bearing so far is the Supatrac type.
Tks n Rgds
Adelmo
Korf used this brand. dual type. Seems interesting but also seems not so cheap as well.
https://www.flexpivots.com/
I value the experience from every one about bearings as mine is one of the most limited in regard DIY TA. One of the best sounding bearing so far is the Supatrac type.
Tks n Rgds
Adelmo
Hi,
Decided to test the LT clone with my floating TT hoping shall work despite the floating. Decision made since the Lenco need too many upgrade and not in the mood to make them now.
Since the mag cam is separated from the tonearm, I need some tweaking to fit it on this TT.
Work ing progress.
Rgds
Adelmo
Decided to test the LT clone with my floating TT hoping shall work despite the floating. Decision made since the Lenco need too many upgrade and not in the mood to make them now.
Since the mag cam is separated from the tonearm, I need some tweaking to fit it on this TT.
Work ing progress.
Rgds
Adelmo
Attachments
Hi,
As I supposed my floating TT is not the best solution for my rough LT clone. The TA need a steady not floating TT.
However at the present I am using as it is, need to be soft in cueing the TA due to the floating. Also bit more difficult the precise and good tuning of the whole TA as levelling is much sensitive.
Perhaps I have to take in serious consideration to build a good Lenco based TT for this TA.
I have to say that AT cart is very strong, despite my mishandling playing around with this TA, the AT cart is still working!.
Rgds
Adelmo
As I supposed my floating TT is not the best solution for my rough LT clone. The TA need a steady not floating TT.
However at the present I am using as it is, need to be soft in cueing the TA due to the floating. Also bit more difficult the precise and good tuning of the whole TA as levelling is much sensitive.
Perhaps I have to take in serious consideration to build a good Lenco based TT for this TA.
I have to say that AT cart is very strong, despite my mishandling playing around with this TA, the AT cart is still working!.
Rgds
Adelmo
Adelmo,
Congratulations on reaching the record playing/testing stage. A fixed stable TT will really help. Could you put blocks between the platter support and the feet or base?
Doug
Congratulations on reaching the record playing/testing stage. A fixed stable TT will really help. Could you put blocks between the platter support and the feet or base?
Doug
Hi Doug,
My Mag floating table is less soft than the old Thorens, Linn, therefore I managed to make it working. I just need to be careful using the TA cueing lifter at the starting point as mine is pretty rough made from spare bits. Some one said looks like the Italian old Moka coffe maker.
I am stil waiting to receive an aluminium spacer that allow me to lower the TA 4 mm more therefore get optimal wand eight for the cart.
The 2 Supatrac style pivots shall remain a bit too high as it is complex to further lower down with this TA execution. May be the next TA shall have the 2 pivots perfectly below the record plane.....
I ordered the wrong DIN connector so waiting the correct one so at the presents the TA s wire contact not the best .
I need to make a new brown wood head shell as the present one is not locking well to the alluminium as suppose to be.
I have to thank you for suggesting to make the main TA pillar with a levelling adjustments. Once I set as well as I can all the tT level, I use these 3 small screw for the finest TA tuning and works pretty well. Very good suggestion.
Sound wise comparing to the AT V95C is way.... much much better due to the DL 103 cart and a better interface with the TA mass. Really another world. Pretty natural and detailed as wee. bass are there as mids and highs.
Overall has been a good experience and worth to be made, tks again to you and this forum support as well.
Tks n rgds
Adelmo
My Mag floating table is less soft than the old Thorens, Linn, therefore I managed to make it working. I just need to be careful using the TA cueing lifter at the starting point as mine is pretty rough made from spare bits. Some one said looks like the Italian old Moka coffe maker.
I am stil waiting to receive an aluminium spacer that allow me to lower the TA 4 mm more therefore get optimal wand eight for the cart.
The 2 Supatrac style pivots shall remain a bit too high as it is complex to further lower down with this TA execution. May be the next TA shall have the 2 pivots perfectly below the record plane.....
I ordered the wrong DIN connector so waiting the correct one so at the presents the TA s wire contact not the best .
I need to make a new brown wood head shell as the present one is not locking well to the alluminium as suppose to be.
I have to thank you for suggesting to make the main TA pillar with a levelling adjustments. Once I set as well as I can all the tT level, I use these 3 small screw for the finest TA tuning and works pretty well. Very good suggestion.
Sound wise comparing to the AT V95C is way.... much much better due to the DL 103 cart and a better interface with the TA mass. Really another world. Pretty natural and detailed as wee. bass are there as mids and highs.
Overall has been a good experience and worth to be made, tks again to you and this forum support as well.
Tks n rgds
Adelmo
Hi,
Small update:
New CW, ugly but raise up the center of gravity a bit as I wanted, it is closer to the bearing, has more clearance in the bottom so I can further lower the TA, has the VTF fine tuning.
New head shell, I reduced the number of material to 2 near the cart, Panzerholz spacer and aluminium. Also now it locks better to the tA.
Rgds
Adelmo
Small update:
New CW, ugly but raise up the center of gravity a bit as I wanted, it is closer to the bearing, has more clearance in the bottom so I can further lower the TA, has the VTF fine tuning.
New head shell, I reduced the number of material to 2 near the cart, Panzerholz spacer and aluminium. Also now it locks better to the tA.
Rgds
Adelmo
HI,
Made a new mag cam integrated to the main TA s post. Makes more easy the levelling of TT and TA. Also the cam is more compact and smaller, now more easy to fit the TA to other TT. Reduced the mass of the wand to 60 gr but still too heavy, I am making a new wand of 35 to max 40 gr mass.
Planning to add a TA lifter.
Making new pivot for the secondary TA shaft and use better ceramic bearing pre loaded.
Skating not perfect for all the tracks yet, still working on it, but much better compared to before.
Rgds
Adelmo
Made a new mag cam integrated to the main TA s post. Makes more easy the levelling of TT and TA. Also the cam is more compact and smaller, now more easy to fit the TA to other TT. Reduced the mass of the wand to 60 gr but still too heavy, I am making a new wand of 35 to max 40 gr mass.
Planning to add a TA lifter.
Making new pivot for the secondary TA shaft and use better ceramic bearing pre loaded.
Skating not perfect for all the tracks yet, still working on it, but much better compared to before.
Rgds
Adelmo
Hi Doug,
Now I am playing records with the Lenco. The other TT despite it is not a soft floating, I decided to make, as u suggested, a kind of mod that allow me to have that TT either floating or not floating at all, depending on the use I like at the moment, just turning 3 small knobs.
With the Lenco, the new cam integrated to the main pillar, the steady level and a better setting the TA work pretty well and much more precise as supposed to be. Skating is almost perfect ( no skating ) for the whole track list.
Still space to make some improvements such as :
Good ceramic zirconia bearing pre loaded for the secondary shaft ( just waiting the new pivot from the lathe guy )
Make a potted mag hoping I get a more precise function
Add a TA lifter integrated to the TA for the safe of the cart
All these new mod shall also allow me to switch easily the TA to almost any TT.
Best regards
Adelmo
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Hi Adelmo,
Many years ago I did some testing of different bearings for my linear tracking arm.
I did try some full zirconia bearings. They were OK but not brilliant. Much better were the hybrid bearings from Boca bearings. These are silicon nitride and 440 stainless steel. They were about twice the price of the zirconia bearings but much lower friction and also much more consistent in friction as they rotated. More importantly they sound notably better.
Niffy
Many years ago I did some testing of different bearings for my linear tracking arm.
I did try some full zirconia bearings. They were OK but not brilliant. Much better were the hybrid bearings from Boca bearings. These are silicon nitride and 440 stainless steel. They were about twice the price of the zirconia bearings but much lower friction and also much more consistent in friction as they rotated. More importantly they sound notably better.
Niffy
Hi Niffy,
In the recent past I have ordered twice Boca bearings and both times they were confiscated while transiting in Amsterdam so I gave up therefore I have ordered ceramic zirconia bearings. Checking the bearing by hands they slides very very well and have no noticeable play. However shall see after I pre load them. Important for these bearing is the allowance with the bearing house, if too loosen is not good and if a bit tight also not good, must be really perfect fit. Boca bearing for sure are of good quality, but too difficult to get them in Italy and lead time too long.
Regarding on how the these ceramic bearings sounds I shall see when I got the new bearing pivot from the lathe guy.
Perhaps the sphere of the hybrid bearings make the difference in precision.
Tks for the suggestion, appreciate that I will look for hybrid bearings with the following dimension: 8mm x 16mm x 4mm.
My present TA is using bearings only for H motion, the V motion is accomplished by 2 pivot in the H plane suspended with 2 thread following the Supatrac system. The Cart while tracking pull the pivots avoiding any chattering for the V motion.
I personally think the Kuzma 4 point TA is a good bearings system, but the precision to diy for me is out of my reach machinery tools and skill.
Rgds
Adelmo
In the recent past I have ordered twice Boca bearings and both times they were confiscated while transiting in Amsterdam so I gave up therefore I have ordered ceramic zirconia bearings. Checking the bearing by hands they slides very very well and have no noticeable play. However shall see after I pre load them. Important for these bearing is the allowance with the bearing house, if too loosen is not good and if a bit tight also not good, must be really perfect fit. Boca bearing for sure are of good quality, but too difficult to get them in Italy and lead time too long.
Regarding on how the these ceramic bearings sounds I shall see when I got the new bearing pivot from the lathe guy.
Perhaps the sphere of the hybrid bearings make the difference in precision.
Tks for the suggestion, appreciate that I will look for hybrid bearings with the following dimension: 8mm x 16mm x 4mm.
My present TA is using bearings only for H motion, the V motion is accomplished by 2 pivot in the H plane suspended with 2 thread following the Supatrac system. The Cart while tracking pull the pivots avoiding any chattering for the V motion.
I personally think the Kuzma 4 point TA is a good bearings system, but the precision to diy for me is out of my reach machinery tools and skill.
Rgds
Adelmo
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Adelmo,
Your arm looks better with each new version.
There’s a Dutch guy in Amsterdam who has a deal with Dutch customs - he gets all the bearings they confiscate.
Have you checked Italian ebay for bearings? Did you make a lighter wand?
If you used the Kuzma bearing arrangement, you would have to pay yourself $10,000.
Doug
Your arm looks better with each new version.
There’s a Dutch guy in Amsterdam who has a deal with Dutch customs - he gets all the bearings they confiscate.
Have you checked Italian ebay for bearings? Did you make a lighter wand?
If you used the Kuzma bearing arrangement, you would have to pay yourself $10,000.
Doug
Hi Doug,
I got 4 ceramic zirconia bearing 16mm x 8mm x 4mm. Checking by hands seems they are the best of all the bearing I bought recently. Trying to fit them in the bearing house I feel I damaged one, may be 2. It is important a perfect allowance to make them turn well. Shall see as I have 2 more untouched.
I have ready the lighter bamboo wand, waiting for the tale and tip aluminium part from the lathe guy, then I shall adapt and bond to the wand. Each TA with bamboo is like a custom made as diameter vary a bit each time.
Waiting to receive the bearing pivot with perfect allowance for the ceramic bearing. Perhaps next week I got it,
The TA now works much much better, steady TT and perfect level it is a must, so the use of this Lenco.
I feel I only miss a TA lifter so I am working on it.
The 60 gr wand mass also sound not bad with DL 103, better than the previous 70gr, but still in the too heavy side I think. 40 gr should be better, shall see. New Kuzma Safir TA is said to have 60 gr mass for a 9 inch TA.
Currently I am making from an aluminium plate the support for the TA lifter and a TA park support. I do not like to use mag for the TA parking position, they look good but I feel is not a so safe solution for the cart.
With these mods switch the TA to other TT is possible and much easier.
Kuzma TA ? In the future may be another TA with hybrid bearings I.E. Kuzma type for H motion and Supatrac type for V motion.
In the past I bought bearing on Ebay, but I was not so happy about the quality. I also bought SKF bearings and those were not so good for my application, only costly.
Any news from your side or just enjoy music with your latest TA for the time being?
Dutch guy.... ah ah, perhaps he likes my tiny bearings, may be he even join this forum.
Rgds
Adelmo
I got 4 ceramic zirconia bearing 16mm x 8mm x 4mm. Checking by hands seems they are the best of all the bearing I bought recently. Trying to fit them in the bearing house I feel I damaged one, may be 2. It is important a perfect allowance to make them turn well. Shall see as I have 2 more untouched.
I have ready the lighter bamboo wand, waiting for the tale and tip aluminium part from the lathe guy, then I shall adapt and bond to the wand. Each TA with bamboo is like a custom made as diameter vary a bit each time.
Waiting to receive the bearing pivot with perfect allowance for the ceramic bearing. Perhaps next week I got it,
The TA now works much much better, steady TT and perfect level it is a must, so the use of this Lenco.
I feel I only miss a TA lifter so I am working on it.
The 60 gr wand mass also sound not bad with DL 103, better than the previous 70gr, but still in the too heavy side I think. 40 gr should be better, shall see. New Kuzma Safir TA is said to have 60 gr mass for a 9 inch TA.
Currently I am making from an aluminium plate the support for the TA lifter and a TA park support. I do not like to use mag for the TA parking position, they look good but I feel is not a so safe solution for the cart.
With these mods switch the TA to other TT is possible and much easier.
Kuzma TA ? In the future may be another TA with hybrid bearings I.E. Kuzma type for H motion and Supatrac type for V motion.
In the past I bought bearing on Ebay, but I was not so happy about the quality. I also bought SKF bearings and those were not so good for my application, only costly.
Any news from your side or just enjoy music with your latest TA for the time being?
Dutch guy.... ah ah, perhaps he likes my tiny bearings, may be he even join this forum.
Rgds
Adelmo