I am going to build BIB speakers (waiting on help modeling a pair of speakers), got into active versus passive crossovers, then into amplification (searching this forum is dangerous...).
What I keep finding over and over is great performing kits that were under $750USD, especially under $500USD have been discontinued, sometimes with kits four times the cost (ex. Bottlehead Paramour I and II, now there least expensive option is about twice the price).
Why is this?
More interesting is there are a plethora of inexpensive per amplifier kits like the S4. Odd because of the severe difference and without an amplifier, a pre is useless (sometimes a pre isn't even needed apparently).
Thought this be an interesting discussion.
What I keep finding over and over is great performing kits that were under $750USD, especially under $500USD have been discontinued, sometimes with kits four times the cost (ex. Bottlehead Paramour I and II, now there least expensive option is about twice the price).
Why is this?
More interesting is there are a plethora of inexpensive per amplifier kits like the S4. Odd because of the severe difference and without an amplifier, a pre is useless (sometimes a pre isn't even needed apparently).
Thought this be an interesting discussion.
There is also folks passing away, like Larry Stafford of S5 Electronics: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/we-lost-a-good-one-larry-stafford-s5-electronics.383394/.
Not just costing more, I have literally spent hours and there are only two kits of about 45 watt output, Dynakit (everything is out of stock, maybe going out of business?) and Bottlehead. Of course, love to hear of more.
S4: https://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/Universal-Tube-Preamplifier/
The only concern and hangup doing my own is making the connections, rather than the plug and chug of a PCB board. However, now looks to be the only option.
Not just costing more, I have literally spent hours and there are only two kits of about 45 watt output, Dynakit (everything is out of stock, maybe going out of business?) and Bottlehead. Of course, love to hear of more.
S4: https://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/Universal-Tube-Preamplifier/
The only concern and hangup doing my own is making the connections, rather than the plug and chug of a PCB board. However, now looks to be the only option.
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Thankfully the schematic still exists (just can't download): https://diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=368. Per what I briefly read, it is well loved design. However, don't recall a mention of how many watts.
I did one task (wiring in a hard start relay) in my youth. Looked uglier then sin. However, the solder was from a now gone electrical supply store and not labeled, now doing this research, could be because didn't get the wires super clean and/or use the right solder.
It isn't the soldering that I find overwhelming, it is sorting out a schematic. I was taught it back about 17 years ago in High School, however, that was for simple automotive circuits and a long time ago. Then you have to take the schematic and lay it out on a sheet of steel, and connect things. However, funny how when talking to you, hit me, a tracer is really no different than a wire and the 1960s consoles I have experienced of course had no PCB boards. Now think about it, I remember being terrified of going near the amps when powered on, though in time got more comfortable (though not enough to do something shockingly stupid).
Do you have any information or thoughts on an amplifier that can drive 500 watt, 97DSP, speaker?
If matters any, my only experience with tubes is Telefunken, not sure what kind (one is at a friend's in Oregon waiting for repairs because Oops dropped it, the other buried in a storage unit).
I did one task (wiring in a hard start relay) in my youth. Looked uglier then sin. However, the solder was from a now gone electrical supply store and not labeled, now doing this research, could be because didn't get the wires super clean and/or use the right solder.
It isn't the soldering that I find overwhelming, it is sorting out a schematic. I was taught it back about 17 years ago in High School, however, that was for simple automotive circuits and a long time ago. Then you have to take the schematic and lay it out on a sheet of steel, and connect things. However, funny how when talking to you, hit me, a tracer is really no different than a wire and the 1960s consoles I have experienced of course had no PCB boards. Now think about it, I remember being terrified of going near the amps when powered on, though in time got more comfortable (though not enough to do something shockingly stupid).
Do you have any information or thoughts on an amplifier that can drive 500 watt, 97DSP, speaker?
If matters any, my only experience with tubes is Telefunken, not sure what kind (one is at a friend's in Oregon waiting for repairs because Oops dropped it, the other buried in a storage unit).
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Right-click the image, "Save image as..."
Or https://diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_S5-Electronics-K12G-Tube-Amp-Kit-Schematic~2.png
Yes, that small fuzzy copy seems to be all there is on that page.
Says 8 Watt / Channel on the drawing.
Of course it will. 8W is not that much less than 500W. However if you want to buy a ready/kit 500 Watt tube amp, you will be disappointed. In ANY market. Is one of the Ampeg SVT amps still on the market at 300W all-tube? (Last I looked they were cheating with transistors.)
I can only go by what information on here and that was a 500 watt speaker needs 20 to 25 watts.
So then what is the correct minimum?
By the way, my Dad was an engineer and did destructive testing for a government contractor for the Navy, so have a lot ingrained into me, including increasing heat decreases reliability. So, if a smaller amplifier do the job, all the better. I am not looking to go deaf.
The DIY tube amp market is tiny and each build requires lots of support. Which power transformer? That's not available in my area. What's an alternative? No, I don't want a custom transformer. Too expensive.... Which output transformer? Repeat ad nauseam. Don't get me wrong. I think tube circuits are very neat. It's amazing what you can do with a light bulb with some chicken wire in it. But after selling about ten boards per year for 6-8 years and providing hours of custom support for each I decided to focus on the solid state market. Catering to the tube market is simply not a sustainable business. Not at the prices I was charging anyway.
Delivering a kit solves a some of the support issues. But now you have to stock expensive parts that take up lots of space. Even a small stack of kits (say 10-20 kits) would mean an investment of $15-30k just in parts in case of my DG300B. That's a lot of money to tie up in inventory.
That's probably some of the explanation for why the tube kits cost real money.
Tom
Yikes, Tom. Totally makes sense to get out of tubes then. Now with the 46 percent price increase, means the end of the 86 and 186.
Looked over your site, lot of it going over my head. I also read through all the thread. Got me really thinking, seems to beat any solid state out there at that wattage and distortion level.
Looked over your site, lot of it going over my head. I also read through all the thread. Got me really thinking, seems to beat any solid state out there at that wattage and distortion level.
What is a BIB speaker?
The only 500W speakers (500 Watts?), are either for:
An open air Woodstock rock concert,
Or a concert designed to create business for the hearing aid companies.
Or a car stereo designed to blow the trunk cover off (and wake the baby 10 cars away)
Just what kind of speakers are you going to use?
dB sound level at 1 meter at 1 Watt?
How big of a listening room?
Music selection: Loud Rock, a quartet Mozart chamber group, or something in between?
A 150 pound turntable and moving coil cartridge, or a simple CD player?
Describe the system other than the amplifier first, then find an appropriate amplifier kit, or PCBs and parts on a chassis.
Check out the price of Eggs, if you can find them on the shelf.
The world supply of things is quickly becoming a case of Un-obtainium and Obsolenium.
It is partly due to a bad case of Managerium; and due to the changing wants and needs dictated by modern education and modern marketing.
The only 500W speakers (500 Watts?), are either for:
An open air Woodstock rock concert,
Or a concert designed to create business for the hearing aid companies.
Or a car stereo designed to blow the trunk cover off (and wake the baby 10 cars away)
Just what kind of speakers are you going to use?
dB sound level at 1 meter at 1 Watt?
How big of a listening room?
Music selection: Loud Rock, a quartet Mozart chamber group, or something in between?
A 150 pound turntable and moving coil cartridge, or a simple CD player?
Describe the system other than the amplifier first, then find an appropriate amplifier kit, or PCBs and parts on a chassis.
Check out the price of Eggs, if you can find them on the shelf.
The world supply of things is quickly becoming a case of Un-obtainium and Obsolenium.
It is partly due to a bad case of Managerium; and due to the changing wants and needs dictated by modern education and modern marketing.
DIY will always be alive and kicking - partly because there will always be people who have a thousand bucks to throw at a 12 watt EL84 amplifier. For every 10 people who get thrown out on their ***** to go stand in line at the food bank, SOMEONE gets filthy rich. And some of that does trickle down providing disposable income for the well-positioned.
”Disconnecting from kits” has always been the more economically viable way to go. Back in the day, a Heathkit was more expensive than just buying retail. And retail is by definition more profit than actual value. You do have to learn how to scavenge, and design around the things you can get at reasonable prices. Output tubes capable of doing what a 6L6GC does can be had for five bucks. Without violating trade sanctions or involving yourself in A Private Little War. Better tubes than 12AU7 can be had for three. Transformers for 20. Unwilling to compromise on the OPT? Make that the ONE place you spend $200. Don’t try to build your “Dream Amplifier” the first time. Start out with what you can understand, and build from there.
”Disconnecting from kits” has always been the more economically viable way to go. Back in the day, a Heathkit was more expensive than just buying retail. And retail is by definition more profit than actual value. You do have to learn how to scavenge, and design around the things you can get at reasonable prices. Output tubes capable of doing what a 6L6GC does can be had for five bucks. Without violating trade sanctions or involving yourself in A Private Little War. Better tubes than 12AU7 can be had for three. Transformers for 20. Unwilling to compromise on the OPT? Make that the ONE place you spend $200. Don’t try to build your “Dream Amplifier” the first time. Start out with what you can understand, and build from there.
Bigger is Better. A horn folded in half, super simple compared to a folded horn. However, I am going to deviate slightly and base it off the BBBIB and WAW designs for getting a little more bass than a full range design. And no I am not a basshead listening to music which is condescending to females.
I was going with them because they are spoken well of here and right now on sale for one third the cost. However, if this means spending $2.000USD (just throwing out a number for a point) then that is beyond penny wise, pound foolish. I am still waiting on someone modeling the speakers, so this is a good time to get that sorted.
For the main speaker, either:
500 watts
97dB (1W/1m)
Fs - 45Hz
Qts - 0,25
300 watts
Sensitivity - 97dB (1W/1m)
Fs - 42Hz
Qts - 0,37
For the "tweeter", one of these (have not heard back if a reduction in SPL Δ make any noticeable difference):
40 watts
Sensitivity - 89,2353dB
Fs - 48,53Hz
Qts - 0,3635
Sensitivity - 89.645dB
30 watts
Fs - 42,398Hz
Qts - 0,330
20 watts?
Sensitivity - 91,730dB
Fs - 42,149Hz
Qts - 0,285
(I really appreciate asking about the watts, didn't realize the last one has a maximum of 40 wats, normal was not specified, could have ended up over driving with my 75 watt integrated (Z-SU600 so high end, though if go active crossovers...)).
Temporary room is about 13 feet by 24 feet depending on how defined, the goal house is 16'-0"x24'-0" (open ground floor, bathroom and bedroom located in a loft of 12'-0"x16'-0", over eat in kitchen).
Music Selection:
Classical especially love organ music (why working so hard to get down below 30Hz, have subsonic hearing).
Bluegrass and classic country music (ex. Johnny Cash, John Denver, Dolly Parton, Gillian Welch, etc.)
Pre 1940s jazz
Oldies
Disco
Glam rock
1980s pop
Right now have a non working, piece of junk U-Turn (didn't know better) and looking out for a Technics direct drive, linear tracking turntable and use a MC cart on; maybe one day build a heavy turntable.
I my friend just bought me way too many eggs, dozen and a half, didn't look at the price. I had not bought some in months (a dozen lasts me a long time).
My dear Dad pinched pennies so hard it make Abraham Lincoln cry uncle. So, for me, it is hard to spend money, though occasionally I do something stupid (haven't done so in a long time). I also have trouble with change, probably doesn't help being raised by a dear Oma who was still living in the late 1960s, early 1970s (suspect she was also on the Autism Spectrum like me and Dad). I did find a video on a scratch built tube amplifier, about $750 back in 2018; clearly @tomchr 's amplifiers are a great deal.
Thank you. For tube, I have disconnected. Now realized biting off more than I can chew, need to slow down and be patient with getting help (hard when see a member you are waiting on replying to threads except yours, feels like I did something wrong and being ignored).
My maternal grandfather worked his way up to major in the Army Signal Corps during World War Two, in the Pacific Theater. He worked hard and built businesses, however, not telling or teaching his wife, it is now all gone. Additionally, I been dealt an unfair hand: Autism and parents divorce. I could b*tch and moan about it, or I can decide to work towards positioning myself; I have chosen the latter. I have gotten my last back payment (which is way less than the award letter specified) and required to spend it down in nine months. Instead of being stupid either way, find a middle position, that most importantly enhances the business I am trying to start and hopefully pass onto the next generation plus provides for my mental health and well-being (music is so important, even saved my life). In short, the trick is figuring out how to get out of the soup kitchen line and position yourself well.
What does "OPT" mean? Google wan't much help.
I think I am understand this, fairly simple, and not my dream amplifier :
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17jRI1lE_Vf9_Pq64LbT-PHy3pLpW1vuj
Plus, there are 12 videos on the building of it.
Can you please help with learning how to scavenge?