For post #20. Here's one on Ebay right now. Not sure it's in excellent condition as the foam around the horn is gone etc. They're asking $3000 for them.. If it was me I'd be more inclined to go with the GPA alnico 416 and 802 at well under that price, and have brand new drivers instead for a diy M19.
Altec Lansing Model 19 Speakers In Great Condition | eBay
https://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Classic-Series-416-8B-Spec-Sheet.pdf
https://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Classic-Series-802-8G-Spec-Sheet.pdf
Altec Lansing Model 19 Speakers In Great Condition | eBay
https://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Classic-Series-416-8B-Spec-Sheet.pdf
https://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Classic-Series-802-8G-Spec-Sheet.pdf
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Thanks for the info, Dave.
The photos of the M19s on eBay are hammered.
Got a pair just sitting in my garage. Ferrite 416C and Alnico 802. Oak, stained red cherry. Horns damped with mortiite. Newish foam. Can't seem to post a photo of mine here.
Wondering what to do with them.
The photos of the M19s on eBay are hammered.
Got a pair just sitting in my garage. Ferrite 416C and Alnico 802. Oak, stained red cherry. Horns damped with mortiite. Newish foam. Can't seem to post a photo of mine here.
Wondering what to do with them.
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Foam around the horn? Explain please. I have M19s but they never had foam around the horn.
Here in Italy I saw prices in the range 3000-5000 Euro for second hand M19s. Too much for me. The M19 is a old design not fitting modern concept of making a loudspeaker system.
The woofer and driver used are toys compared with modern ones available.
Yes the M19 had foam around the 811 horn. Most foams have rotted away so most M19 pics you see have no foam around the horn nowadays. It was part of the design to dampen reflections and ringing.
Replacement foam for Altec Lansing 19 horns For Sale - Canuck Audio Mart
Replacement foam for Altec Lansing 19 horns For Sale - Canuck Audio Mart
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Aaah! That's the reason why mine had that harsh and bell sound 🙂 They were missing of the foams 🙂
Thank for the info.
FWIW, real world measurements shows a higher tuning in many [most/all?] cases due to cab leaks around the horn and between the spacer and upper, lower cab. If leaks are sealed up, then tuning to Fs is normally a good in-room blend unless well away from walls, then ~36-42 Hz is where folks seem to like them best overall.
Also FWIW, the first pair of M19s with 416C delivered to the S.E. dist. in Atlanta had at least double the fiberglass insulation in the woofer cab than was used with the 416B, but no clue if they all came that way nor have I seen any official document that spec'd it, though do recommend it since it's a bit underdamped when loaded in cabs designed for earlier 416 models, especially the 416A, which had a ~ 1000 L Vas, ditto a few GPA recones done early on!
GM
FWIW, the earliest ones just had raw fiberglass insulation packed around the horn like the Valencia, Santiago, but dealers wanted to display them without grills so they all got the cool foam upgrade.
They don't reduce the horn bell's 'ringing' enough for some folks, so recommend adding duct seal, mortite or similar to at least the top bell.
GM
I think we're all on the same page about the cow bells. I found lining the leading edge of the 'lips' was the most important. Duct seal and rope caulk (Mortite) are easy to find and inexpensive.
Here's a brochure link where if you click on the pic it will enlarge it and show the foam around the horn. And for sure definitely do what GM and Cal mentioned to dampen the horn etc.
I've wondered if a good tweak for the M19 cab would be to build a separate box for the horn instead of the shared cab space with the woofer as is the design, and fill the cavity around the 811 horn in the box with lead shot. So you'd calculate the woofer box to be separate from the horn cab volume, and sink the horn into lead shot in it's own box on top. It could still look like an M19 in every way if wanted with the added benefit of the horn in it's own lead filled cab etc.
MODEL 19
I guess as mentioned before the title should be changed to "Altec Model 19 Clone", unless the OP had a meaning to make an M19 clone using only JBL drivers? Blasphemy I know! lol 🙂
I've wondered if a good tweak for the M19 cab would be to build a separate box for the horn instead of the shared cab space with the woofer as is the design, and fill the cavity around the 811 horn in the box with lead shot. So you'd calculate the woofer box to be separate from the horn cab volume, and sink the horn into lead shot in it's own box on top. It could still look like an M19 in every way if wanted with the added benefit of the horn in it's own lead filled cab etc.
MODEL 19
I guess as mentioned before the title should be changed to "Altec Model 19 Clone", unless the OP had a meaning to make an M19 clone using only JBL drivers? Blasphemy I know! lol 🙂
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Another option than building a M19 clone, is to build an established Econowave design.
Too much detail to write here. A Google search will lead to many many threads.
I built a pair based on Altec 890C's 10 woofers, passive radiators and speaker box with a $10 JBL CD horn, Selenium driver and crossover with frequency compensation (that the designer Zilch had based on the M19 crossover). In a home setting, gives up very little to the M19.
The M19 in its time was a classic. Like a Shelby Cobra 427, there are many imitations/clones these days seen at car shows. Some even with Chevy small blocks in them. But things can be done better these days. Better and different. Just be true to what you intend to accomplish.
Too much detail to write here. A Google search will lead to many many threads.
I built a pair based on Altec 890C's 10 woofers, passive radiators and speaker box with a $10 JBL CD horn, Selenium driver and crossover with frequency compensation (that the designer Zilch had based on the M19 crossover). In a home setting, gives up very little to the M19.
The M19 in its time was a classic. Like a Shelby Cobra 427, there are many imitations/clones these days seen at car shows. Some even with Chevy small blocks in them. But things can be done better these days. Better and different. Just be true to what you intend to accomplish.
Some folks have blocked off, sand filled the cavity, but to date the best M19 'clones' have been MLTLs [up to 16 ft^3] according to their owners, etc., some with the horn in cab, most with the horn on top.
GM
No. I never made any mods or tweaks on any Altec toys I gathered over the years.
The M19s are now completely disassembled and archived in the garage to get moldy since the last 20 years.
That would be awesome to build a M19 like that and MLTL loaded!. Here's a few pics of the Volti cab. I'd do it like this in concept where the horn is in it's own sand or lead filled box sitting on top, and then the cab underneath could be whatever size works for sitted ear height and MLTL loaded with either a single 416 or side by side twin 416's. That would be some great efficiency if the twin 416's could work, or if not a single would still be killer!
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Those do look great. Always loved the look of the Belle Klipsch.
The problem I found with the front loaded horns, is they need a low crossover for the "squawker" to blend well. Klipsch used 400-600hz in his LaScalas, Belle, and Klipshorn. IMO would need a 511 or larger horn to work well with Altec components.
Years ago I used a LaScala bass horn with a TAD-2001 driven 150Hz Chapman horn with so-so results. Tried smaller tractrix Edgarhorns at 800Hz, and there was a gaiping hole in the lower mids. I assumed due to the folded horn rolling off its HF response early. So I went to an Altec 825 cabinet with Alnico 515s with Chapman horns on top. Midrange suckout solved.
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I posted the pics of the Volti cabs only to show how one could do the horn separate in it's own box like they do, then build the 416 cab underneath as a MLTL, not loaded like in the pic of the Volti or as a Klipsch etc. Anyhow that's sort of like how I'd do a custom M19, with help though of course. Then if staying with the 811 horn it could be set in the box and you could pour lead shot all around it or sand etc. Then layer some foam all around the horn on the front baffle alike to how Altec did it, or perhaps a bit more thicker foam would be helpful around the 811.
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