Finished mods to A5. Sound alot better. Vents with 70sq inch adds flat bass down to about 50hz. Insulation behind driver and cross braces got rid of the boxy sound.
The enclosure that has caught my eye for a pair of 416-8B's that I finally picked up is the GM MLTL
There is a great build blog but no measurements that I can find.
These are large enclosures at 52 3/4" H x 21" D x 30" W. Volume is 16.5 cu.ft. The vent dimension is 11" X 2 3/4" in 3/4" cabinet baffle.
I have been gathering enclosure plans for the 416B and the range of volume recommendations is astounding.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
There is a great build blog but no measurements that I can find.
These are large enclosures at 52 3/4" H x 21" D x 30" W. Volume is 16.5 cu.ft. The vent dimension is 11" X 2 3/4" in 3/4" cabinet baffle.
I have been gathering enclosure plans for the 416B and the range of volume recommendations is astounding.
I don't have the sim, specs, etc., I used available, but it's tuned low, so either it's the actual Fs or ~27.5 Hz since that's the note on a piano it's closest to.
Yeah, between a low Fs, Qts and high Vas, with some re-cones being high Qts with super high Vas, there's lots of tuning options to fit the needs of the app from a small cab tuned high to a huge cab [up to 1000 L!] tuned low, so what's your performance requirements, signal chain, room details, average seated ear height, max dimensions?
GM
Yeah, between a low Fs, Qts and high Vas, with some re-cones being high Qts with super high Vas, there's lots of tuning options to fit the needs of the app from a small cab tuned high to a huge cab [up to 1000 L!] tuned low, so what's your performance requirements, signal chain, room details, average seated ear height, max dimensions?
GM
GM, how did the front horn extensions sound? Are you running a single speaker? How does the multicell compare to the big bi-radial?
You'll have to ask Per Hasling, the owner, though IIRC he has [had?] a stereo pair: Hasling Audio Systems Denmark
GM
The current room is a 13'x30' carpeted LR/DR with 8' ceilings and lined on all walls with books as expensive, but effective, damping. The cab's will be placed out in front of bookshelves, away from all walls and, depending on their width, will define the listening area. With 30" wide cab's that will be around a 9' equilateral triangle with the Lazyboy at the apex. E2F (ears to floor) around 40" upright and 34" reclined. Signal chain is du joir, tbs, or whatever ends up sounding best. I have valves, discrete silicon, and chip-amps, high and low impedance. It will be the best amp for the job in a bi-amped system. And I listen at realistic SPL. I would not describe myself as a bass-head, unless bass is prominent in the music itself. I still have all my full range speakers that I continue to value for their coherence and mid-range beauty. This active 2-way is about a return to dynamics; Puccini's Turandot, Poulenc's Organ Concerto, Jimmy Hendrix ElectricLadyLand, Art Ensemble of Chicago Live at Mandel Hall.
These 416-8B's sound fine and came from a discerning friend who had them in 8cu.ft sealed. They had been re-coned by a very experienced speaker guy, in the business 50years. At first I thought they were spliced and now I wonder if he used 420A Biflex cones. There is a marking, WHF-5270 on both cones. The marking is up near the spider on one and near the surround on the other. It would be nice to know what this is about. But empirically, they sound fine in home use. I have a Dayton WTF-3 and just ran the drivers. The serial numbers, #07862 and #38650, don't seem close and the T/S are enough apart that I wonder if the inside volumes of the cabs will be different. But that is what old hard back books are for and I have enclosures that are time capsules with magazines from 30 years ago I am discovering (and in awe of what a $ used to buy).
I will try and attach the tables and a few pics. I appreciate your taking the time and value the experience you bring to the table.
View attachment 416-8B #07862.txt
View attachment 416-8B #38650.txt
Ok. Wishful thinking about these being re-coned with 420A Biflex. I think I am onto the WHF-5270 as Waldom cones. The 5270 appears to be the Waldom 5270 duplex 3voice coil. So, is this a Frankenstein patched duplex? Maybe I got the number wrong, it is hard to make out on the cone. Well, they sound fine, regardless.
Bruce, if those are not altec or GPA replacement cones and voice coils, then it's anyone's guess what the resulting speaker parameters are. This makes designing or choosing an enclosure very difficult. The alnico baskets deserve a proper cone, and would recommend changing them. Helps resale value and looks too.
I bought the 416 GPA re-cone kits (around $70ea) and did them myself. Its actually quite easy to do after watching all the youtube videos on reconing.
Regarding boxes, consider the onken in 1" baltic birch. With a box that size, the vents act as cross support. Also, I can't imagine anyone needing deeper or louder bass than what the Onken provides.
I bought the 416 GPA re-cone kits (around $70ea) and did them myself. Its actually quite easy to do after watching all the youtube videos on reconing.
Regarding boxes, consider the onken in 1" baltic birch. With a box that size, the vents act as cross support. Also, I can't imagine anyone needing deeper or louder bass than what the Onken provides.
The actual and measured T/S for these mongrels are in the .txt files uploaded. They sound fine. Civilization as we know it is safe.
Structurally, I like Onken cabinets too. I built up the Planet10 cab for the Fostex FE167, the Fonken, and it was swell.
Fonken, that still cracks me up.
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not really meant for deep bass
Greetings !
I'm the one person you can't imagine exists !
Cousin Bruce has been to my house. In his words, the level of deep bass produced is a bit "unnerving". I do believe he is also planning to add subs.
If this is the case, and based on his WT3 measurements, I would say a sealed enclosure of between 7 and 8 cubic feet would suffice.
Greetings !
I'm the one person you can't imagine exists !
Cousin Bruce has been to my house. In his words, the level of deep bass produced is a bit "unnerving". I do believe he is also planning to add subs.
If this is the case, and based on his WT3 measurements, I would say a sealed enclosure of between 7 and 8 cubic feet would suffice.
This makes it even harder to choose what cabinet to build.
I have not purchased drivers yet, but was thinking GPA 416 in 828 cab.
Any advice is welcome. Is the 515 better suited to the VOTT 828?
Onken looks pretty awesome and always gets good comments.
After listening to the A5's this weekend with all the mods, they are still very colored sounding compared to the Onken. That's not a negative, it's just the nature of them. The lively sound can really excite the realism of certain songs. But on modern well recorded content, it kinda falls apart. The deep articulate bass of the onkens can pick up spacial ques on recordings. So I would say, if you listen to mostly modern well recorded music, go onken. If you listen to older (but still well recorded) and want a 'live at the club' sound, go with A5 (or a7, 828, vott, whatever you want to call them)
And there you go. As much as I love the 360L Onken, I find the 828 cabinet more natural sounding. Especially with a big horn.
But NOT a stock Altec 828. It needs a lot of work to make it stop singing and coloring the sound. There is much to be done. Both are nice, but the Onken starts out nicer.
But NOT a stock Altec 828. It needs a lot of work to make it stop singing and coloring the sound. There is much to be done. Both are nice, but the Onken starts out nicer.
Excellent response and that makes a lot of sense.
I think I will go forward with the 828 build.
I need to decide what GPA driver now...
Pano, I will be using a pair of 805B horns.
I think I will go forward with the 828 build.
I need to decide what GPA driver now...
Pano, I will be using a pair of 805B horns.
My experience tells me the driver you want depends on where you wish to XO. I think the 515 is better at vocals and the 416 has better bass.
The best thing that I have done to my 828 cabinets was to inject foam within the cabinet in the area surrounding the horn flare. Doing that sealed a leaky box and damped vibrations that were coloring the sound. I was really surprised at the improvement!
FWIW, I've heard mixed results with foam and read about folks deforming and outright blowing out the horn flares when they got carried away filling them, so glad it wasn't an option AFAIK when I filled mine with oil dry [AKA kitty litter] to truly make them 'dead' once the horn's top and bottom were double layered with some scrap 12 ga galvanized steel 'filler'. Significant bracing, damping of the rest of the cab is required also of course as well as getting a good seal on the driver access cover.
Cal's right about getting a driver that best suits the needs of the app while still retaining the proper HF breakup modes BW the 800 series cab requires, so probably best to ask Bill @ GPA as he may need to custom tailor them same as Altec used to do and one reason there's so many 'different' 416, 515, etc., drivers around to confound folks.
GM
Cal's right about getting a driver that best suits the needs of the app while still retaining the proper HF breakup modes BW the 800 series cab requires, so probably best to ask Bill @ GPA as he may need to custom tailor them same as Altec used to do and one reason there's so many 'different' 416, 515, etc., drivers around to confound folks.
GM
Before I foamed mine I tried lining the backside of the horns with fiberglass. That helped seal the leaks but the flares still had (albeit different) resonances. I then bought a case of Great Stuff 'gaps & cracks' foam filler when it was on sale at the local big box hardware store. That did the trick.
