I think that the importance of the treatment exceeds the importance of the break-in for taming the A7P. In this respect IMO it is a bit of a pity that the A12PW was marketed specifically as a companion to a driver that doesn't appeal to as many people as the metal cone Alpair 7's. The A12PW is a fine woofer, once I got the cabinet tuning right, it worked very well without having undergone any break-in procedure. Indeed, ample bass output and quality for a woofer of its size. An equivalent woofer with a cone that is color-compatible to the metal Alpairs would probably sell well. Of course there is no technical reason why the A12PW can't be combined with a metal Alpair, but, that color... Mark himself knows that as well, just see the "Sota Markaudio" video on Youtube.
I had no trouble making the A12PW sing with my "frankenpair" (a wideband driver with an adapter ring made to fit the A7P's driver cutout) in place of the A7P, but visually it remains a bit of a botch, and for that reason the project will not make it into the living room. So my personal conclusion of the endeavor is: the A12PW gets the thumbs up, but unfortunately its success is held back by the small audience of its intended companion driver.
I am exploring the A7p more -- as soon as we get a dry bit i'll take a stock & a treated one and measure them. And play. Repeat. I'd like to find a way to kill the resonance that anyone can use to tweak their A7p. They do a lot really well.
The treated driver at 1st had the ringing. It still does, but the number of songs it gets excited by have decreased considerably.
After the A10.3/A10p and A6.2m/A6.2p we came to expect the A7p to have the same relationship to the metal as these 2 earlier pairs -- they didn't. A bit of a dissapointment.
dave
The treated driver at 1st had the ringing. It still does, but the number of songs it gets excited by have decreased considerably.
After the A10.3/A10p and A6.2m/A6.2p we came to expect the A7p to have the same relationship to the metal as these 2 earlier pairs -- they didn't. A bit of a dissapointment.
dave
I am exploring the A7p more -- as soon as we get a dry bit i'll take a stock & a treated one and measure them. And play. Repeat. I'd like to find a way to kill the resonance that anyone can use to tweak their A7p. They do a lot really well.
The treated driver at 1st had the ringing. It still does, but the number of songs it gets excited by have decreased considerably.
After the A10.3/A10p and A6.2m/A6.2p we came to expect the A7p to have the same relationship to the metal as these 2 earlier pairs -- they didn't. A bit of a dissapointment.
dave
The treated driver at 1st had the ringing. It still does, but the number of songs it gets excited by have decreased considerably.
After the A10.3/A10p and A6.2m/A6.2p we came to expect the A7p to have the same relationship to the metal as these 2 earlier pairs -- they didn't. A bit of a dissapointment.
dave
A12pw is an excellent driver. As a woofer it does pretty good, extending beyond some of the drivers we call FR. That makes XO point very flexible.
It could be used with A7.3, A6.2 (either), FF85wk or whatever your favorite midtweeter.
Or with a dome or ribbon tweeter. I have a spare set of A12pWeN & a set of CSS RT1 ribbons i am eyeing to marry.
dave
It could be used with A7.3, A6.2 (either), FF85wk or whatever your favorite midtweeter.
Or with a dome or ribbon tweeter. I have a spare set of A12pWeN & a set of CSS RT1 ribbons i am eyeing to marry.
dave
I haven't heard the driver (12PW) but feel like it missed the beat a little with what people wanted, which seemed like a revised heavy hitting version of the ESS one he created before, that would mate well with all the Alpairs. Sonically and visually.
Great respect for Mark doing this, and I am very keen to try them out, but I wish they were metal coned! Is this what the Sota "11' driver is?
Great respect for Mark doing this, and I am very keen to try them out, but I wish they were metal coned! Is this what the Sota "11' driver is?
Dave,
Is this a cone break-up like in some metal cone drivers? Or is it just a nasty peak in the response curve?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Bill
quite possibly - to be honest, I think you know as much about the new OEM drivers as we - in other words, only what we read on the interwebs
And as to Dave's comments on the 7P, I might add that I personally found it surprising after the performance of the EL70, which must be an at least 5(?) yr old design, and one that some forum members may remember my opinion of in relation to earlier models of the 7 and 10 metals
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Dave,
Do you know at what point that ringing / resonance hits? Maybe a very highly educated and experienced guess?
Bill
Hello,
I have just joined the forum and this is my first post.
I currently own a couple of pairs of Alpair 12P, 12PW and 7P and will be experimenting with these drivers more soon on various open baffles.
Several months ago, I tried a 12PW/7P combination on simple cardboard open baffles and was very pleased with the sound quality in my small listening room. Extremely resolving and transparent sound when compared directly against my reference AKG K1000 earspeakers, through Graham Slee DAC/amp electronics.
I am interested in also trying a 12P/12PW pairing on open baffle, curious about possible improvements over a 7P/12PW pairing.
I know nothing about designing crossovers or implementing them so I need to refer to people with much more experience.
I hope to learn more about getting the most out of my Mark Audio speaker drivers during my time here.
Ash
I have just joined the forum and this is my first post.
I currently own a couple of pairs of Alpair 12P, 12PW and 7P and will be experimenting with these drivers more soon on various open baffles.
Several months ago, I tried a 12PW/7P combination on simple cardboard open baffles and was very pleased with the sound quality in my small listening room. Extremely resolving and transparent sound when compared directly against my reference AKG K1000 earspeakers, through Graham Slee DAC/amp electronics.
I am interested in also trying a 12P/12PW pairing on open baffle, curious about possible improvements over a 7P/12PW pairing.
I know nothing about designing crossovers or implementing them so I need to refer to people with much more experience.
I hope to learn more about getting the most out of my Mark Audio speaker drivers during my time here.
Ash
Ash - as I mentioned in another thread on the same subject, I wonder if the proposed small room and difference in sensitivities between the two models of A12s might complicate things a bit for your proposed application.
As noted above, and elsewhere I think, I ultimately found the 12PW to be more satisfying in combination with the 7.3 (metal) than the 7P the big MTMs , and either they (7.3) or smaller 6.2 (either metal or paper), or even the new A5.2 might better suit such an application
The best I've personally heard the A12P sound is in a large enclosure ( SuperPensil) in anot huge room, and I honestly think they deserve to not be shortchanged
but that's just me, and as the saying goes, YMMV
As noted above, and elsewhere I think, I ultimately found the 12PW to be more satisfying in combination with the 7.3 (metal) than the 7P the big MTMs , and either they (7.3) or smaller 6.2 (either metal or paper), or even the new A5.2 might better suit such an application
The best I've personally heard the A12P sound is in a large enclosure ( SuperPensil) in anot huge room, and I honestly think they deserve to not be shortchanged
but that's just me, and as the saying goes, YMMV
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I've been thinking that 2 12pw would be ideal with a 10m/p, maybe 12p. That way you could get some decent efficiency 90-92db. The biggest downfall of the 7 is it'll break with correct crest power for it's efficiency. (Which isn't necessary for good sound). Otherwise maybe 3-4X 7m with 2+ 12pw. Not cheap, but would probably be amazing.
