PLease do not misunderstand my comment. I have no doubt they they are a real value for the money asked, It was simply the fact that they were more money than i was expecting and had planned for. Initial cost were estimated at 400-500$. That was what i was thinking. BTW, I sent you an email or PM, cant remember which. Didnt know if you got it.
Hi Buzz,
Fully understand and appreciate your comments.
The problem with "estimating" on custom build is its not possible to be always close. I have to go with the time the guys need to put these drivers together and get them right. At US$350 a driver, they're still inside moderate Lowther price country and well below most boutique makers.
Please take into account the time spent building and testing these drivers, the work put into the MAOP cone/cap sets etc.
Don't think I saw a PM. maybe best to email - thanks
Thanks
Mark.
Let's not forget the best thing about DIYing, even at US$700 a pair, these are still more affordable than any high-end brand-name speakers, say Focal, B&W, KEF and so! They are asking for even more, even for entry models!
...yes i'm curious about that too. Before deciding one way or another, i'd like to wait for the 12 MAOP without consequence of missing out on these, not sure i'll have that option.
MarK, how much if any of a increase in sensitivity/efficiency can we expect of the 12M?
From the tone, it appears I've offended you. Rest assured that wasn't my intension and my apologies for any offense caused.
I spend 24/7 doing what I can to open up the world of driver making. At times like this, I'll think again about the potential fallout. A case of the road to hell is paved with many a good intension.
Mark
Hi Mp9
Currently, I'm struggling to get the new Alp12 metal cone to work.
Basically, the current prototype is unstable. I've been working on reducing the mass of the power-train on the motor side the shift the C of G (centre of gravity) away from the cone, thus deceasing the load on the front suspension; Reducing the flex ratio mechanically, rather than having the re-tool the Multiform cone molds for a third time (darned expensive).
Sorry I can't be specific on timing but this is one the midnight oil over the rest of the year.
Cheers
Mark.
Let's not forget the best thing about DIYing, even at US$700 a pair, these are still more affordable than any high-end brand-name speakers, say Focal, B&W, KEF and so! They are asking for even more, even for entry models!
Hi Boris,
A good observation. I'd like to say allot more but I do my best to exercise restraint discussing other makers. Many of us can observe that some brands cost allot of money, but does it represent true value for money.......
At least with my work, guys get the chance to really see what we do; And an opportunity to connect with me.
Mark
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Mark,
At the risk of jumping into the frying pan - doesn't seem like JohnLL and Buzz meant to undermine the value of your drivers (or your efforts) - it's just that they are priced beyond their planned budget.
Hope you can get the A12.3 Alu cones sorted out soon - the initial info was encouraging. On the bright side it gives folks more time to try out the A12P.
At the risk of jumping into the frying pan
- doesn't seem like JohnLL and Buzz meant to undermine the value of your drivers (or your efforts) - it's just that they are priced beyond their planned budget. Hope you can get the A12.3 Alu cones sorted out soon - the initial info was encouraging. On the bright side it gives folks more time to try out the A12P.
No, not at all Mark. I appreciate your comments and your dedication. I am seriously considering the MAOP or 12.2. I will send you an email, as I have some more specific questions for you, as you have actually heard both of them.
Mark,
At the risk of jumping into the frying pan
Hope you can get the A12.3 Alu cones sorted out soon - the initial info was encouraging. On the bright side it gives folks more time to try out the A12P.
Hi Zia,
I've already apologised to Buzz as his last post indicates I offended him. Please lets move on, I'm exhausted.
I'll do my best with the 12 metal to meet expectations, but I'm making no promises. I did what was asked of me re the 12P (more SPL etc). Be glad to get your feedback on the 12P's - many thanks.
Thx
Mark
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Thanks Buzz,
Appreciate your support. Forgive me, I'm exhausted (back is killing me). I'll mend once I've finished the home and office moves in the next 2 weeks. I'm asking Brian (Madisound) to help out with the shipping, but its his call.
Be glad to receive your email.
Thx
Mark
Mark,
Wish you speedy recovery from the back pain. Sorry to hear that it's causing you so much grief.
+1, specially for someone like Mark, who's got heart and soul sunk into it.
- Zia
Wish you speedy recovery from the back pain. Sorry to hear that it's causing you so much grief.
+1, specially for someone like Mark, who's got heart and soul sunk into it.
- Zia
Cheers Zia,
I've given up on the pain killers as they churn my stomach. Now trying back stretch exercises. Doc said "don't lift anything". I said "no choice". Magnets, T yokes and furniture won't levitate by themselves.
Cheers
Mark
Yup, a bit challenging to say the least. Frustrating more anything. Europe is asking me for a CHR-60 while Japan is keen on seeing an Alpair 10P and a all-new Alpair 8. That plus bringing out the replacement woof and tweet. All good stuff but so risky right now while world markets yo-yo and Greece goes belly up.
Cheers
Mark.
Having managed to twist Mark's arm (bribery and corruption), I've had the only pair of Alpair 10 MAOP units outside the far east for a couple of months; with about 700 hours on them at the time of writing, it seemed like a good time to post some general thoughts.
-The fit and finish is excellent, and the drivers are signed by the assembler (in the case of my units, by Jeff Taniguchi-san). The MAOP cone is also very nice, with a matt (in my case white) finish. In terms of aesthetics, it's a change from the grey / copper of the stock units, and while I'd rather look at Victoria Pendleton or Sarah Smart, as drive units go, it's attractive. I quite liked the hand-written (in felt tip pen) command that can be found along with the individual driver data sheets not to touch the cones. I haven't.
Presumably there is an element of self-fulfilling prophesy at work, since I am reasonably aware of what the plasma electrolytic oxidation (another term for MAO) does physically to the cone. Although the PEO / MAO process is a controlled oxidation of the cone surface rather than a coating in the usual sense, it is essentially additive and therefore provides a degree of damping. Sonically, that is what my strictly subjective impression is thus far, although it is supported by the FR graphs of these units compared to the stock drivers. Differences between the regular and MAOP units are subtle, although certainly discernible, and largely a matter of character. They are very easy to listen to for extended periods, presumably thanks to the cones having a (relative) attenuation in micro resonances compared to the raw units. At a guess, I suspect there has been a reduction in harmonic distortion, although unfortunately I don't have access to any measurement equipment at present, so I’ve no way of proving it. Some comparative high resolution HD and waterfall plots would be interesting from a technical perspective to see exactly what is going on.
I suspect these will appeal as much for their semi-custom nature, and the fact that they are hand-assembled by some very respected figures who are well known in the far-eastern driver design and manufacturing industries, as they will for their sonics. Personally, I like them. Of all the 5in wideband drive units I have heard, this is my favourite to date, and the micro arc / plasma electrolytic oxidation process as applied to the cones does in this case have an audible effect in terms of minor damping of cone resonance modes and behaviour compared to the stock 10.2.
-The fit and finish is excellent, and the drivers are signed by the assembler (in the case of my units, by Jeff Taniguchi-san). The MAOP cone is also very nice, with a matt (in my case white) finish. In terms of aesthetics, it's a change from the grey / copper of the stock units, and while I'd rather look at Victoria Pendleton or Sarah Smart, as drive units go, it's attractive. I quite liked the hand-written (in felt tip pen) command that can be found along with the individual driver data sheets not to touch the cones. I haven't.
Presumably there is an element of self-fulfilling prophesy at work, since I am reasonably aware of what the plasma electrolytic oxidation (another term for MAO) does physically to the cone. Although the PEO / MAO process is a controlled oxidation of the cone surface rather than a coating in the usual sense, it is essentially additive and therefore provides a degree of damping. Sonically, that is what my strictly subjective impression is thus far, although it is supported by the FR graphs of these units compared to the stock drivers. Differences between the regular and MAOP units are subtle, although certainly discernible, and largely a matter of character. They are very easy to listen to for extended periods, presumably thanks to the cones having a (relative) attenuation in micro resonances compared to the raw units. At a guess, I suspect there has been a reduction in harmonic distortion, although unfortunately I don't have access to any measurement equipment at present, so I’ve no way of proving it. Some comparative high resolution HD and waterfall plots would be interesting from a technical perspective to see exactly what is going on.
I suspect these will appeal as much for their semi-custom nature, and the fact that they are hand-assembled by some very respected figures who are well known in the far-eastern driver design and manufacturing industries, as they will for their sonics. Personally, I like them. Of all the 5in wideband drive units I have heard, this is my favourite to date, and the micro arc / plasma electrolytic oxidation process as applied to the cones does in this case have an audible effect in terms of minor damping of cone resonance modes and behaviour compared to the stock 10.2.
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so when you get around to a custom enclosure plan for this one, we can look forward to hard copy hand signed full scale blueprints? - none of that download PDF nonsense for the carriage trade
Blueprints... now you're talking. Have to deliver them by carrier pigeon of course.
Either way, these are really nice little units. If you want to reproduce Orff's Carmina Burana at ~'live' SPLs and dynamic range (i.e. minimum of 90dB at the listening position & the ability to handle 120dB LF dynamic peaks), then a 5in widebander isn't likely to be the first choice of transducer, but with less extreme demands, they're excellent. It's a nice unit for simply listening to some music. Which is the point, after all.
Either way, these are really nice little units. If you want to reproduce Orff's Carmina Burana at ~'live' SPLs and dynamic range (i.e. minimum of 90dB at the listening position & the ability to handle 120dB LF dynamic peaks), then a 5in widebander isn't likely to be the first choice of transducer, but with less extreme demands, they're excellent. It's a nice unit for simply listening to some music. Which is the point, after all.
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