Alnico Instrumental Speakers+Super Tweeter as an Option for very expensive Full-Range

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#41
IIRC, its to do with the conductivity: Ferrite isn't as conductive as some other materials, so the voice coil will alter the shape of the magnetic field when current is applied. With the introduction of demodulation rings, greater eddy currents can flow within the magnet, so the field better resists deformation >>> lower distortion.

I'm not an expert on this, so would seek a second opinion before accepting the above as fact.
 
#42
As a guitar player i wouldn't for the life of me want a speaker cabinet that uses a 'hi fi' (ie *reproduction*) driver.

conversely i can't think of a way that using an "instrument" full range for reproduction, because, by definition, if it has the modifier "instrument" in front of it, its purpose is to *color* sound, not reproduce it accurately.

but maybe that's just me.

Also, slightly off topic, but since i made the post... Any ideas of a seriously beefy cabinet for use with my 8 stringer which can reach <30 Hz ? No bass cabs please 🙂
 
#43
tsiros said:
As a guitar player i wouldn't for the life of me want a speaker cabinet that uses a 'hi fi' (ie *reproduction*) driver.

conversely i can't think of a way that using an "instrument" full range for reproduction, because, by definition, if it has the modifier "instrument" in front of it, its purpose is to *color* sound, not reproduce it accurately.

but maybe that's just me.

Also, slightly off topic, but since i made the post... Any ideas of a seriously beefy cabinet for use with my 8 stringer which can reach <30 Hz ? No bass cabs please 🙂
Click to expand...

Agreed, if you like colored sound, that makes sense. For beefy low Hz cab, have you thought of a tapped horn cabinet like they use in movie theaters to get low low bass?
 
#44
tsiros said:
Also, slightly off topic, but since i made the post... Any ideas of a seriously beefy cabinet for use with my 8 stringer which can reach <30 Hz ? No bass cabs please 🙂
Click to expand...

Start a thread in the Instruments section 😉

Depending on how loud you want it, a good 4x10 cab will be enough for most stuff: remember that if you do get strong output <60Hz, the sound can quickly turn to mud. Harmonics (2nd and up) are where the tone's at.

Chris
 
#45
tiefbassuebertr said:
This was the reason to start this thread in the hope, that there are already practical experience (from real live).

Although there are many statements here; unfortunately they are only from a theoretical view and not from listening tests and measuring tests after the associated equalizing corrections/crossover networks.
Click to expand...


It would indeed be very interesting to see a hifi loudspeaker implemented with guitar speakers. But hey are rare.

Are they really so bad, or are people shy to try them ?


One thing is for sure, (all?) guitar speakers have straight cone profile which makes the break up resonances very strong. In opposite, curved cones typically have more mild break ups.
 
#47
chris661 said:
Seems odd to extrapolate from them saying one speaker they make is suitable for guitar/bass use as well as in a PA system, to none of their drivers are worth bothering with, because if they're even slightly worthy of having guitar played through them, they can't reproduce music.
Being able to make a reasonable sound with a guitar doesn't automatically mean the speaker's optimised for it.

Chris
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I do agree. I used eminence at school and didnt find them inspiring for guitar, but reasonable for bass. On the other hand an original Fender Bassman cab was the best sounding guitar cab I have heard, to this day. Go figure lol

however, most guitar speakers (excluding the rare exceptions, though ive yet to find one) are high in THD due to motor and cone designs. Ever played a CD thru a hammond? Doesnt sound good... An eminence MAY be OKish, since the ones i have experienced are a bit 'middle of the road' as guitar speakers, then perhaps they could be at least as good (or bad) in a hifi app. Still I have 4 hartke 10s that i would like to try as a ripole sub, though with the rising response of 15dB and low Qts the filter had better be amazing. A good test would be to play 20hz sine thru them and measure how much 40hz comes out. Methinks it will be rather alot indeed. Valve lovers will likely soil themselves with joy.
 
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#48
Elias, why would THD plots be required for a guitar speaker when it is designed to clip? You and others here have the capability to MEASURE it, I do not. So why doesnt someone do it? Otherwise the thread just becomes a meaningless cyclic discussion which leads nowhere. If i had THD measurement gear id measure my G10R just to prove what i can hear, and some deny simply as there isnt a graph to scrutinise.
 
#50
Elias said:
Got a link to G10R speaker ? Would like to see what is it.
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G10 R is a 10" version of the re-issue 'greenback'. Its not a Alnico motor, but is a re-issue of the original green back, except in a 10~" format.

The 'Blue' that was one of tiefbassuebertr many many links is also a re-issue, and a very expensive one.

G10R:
Classic - G10 Greenback - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers
and the Blue:
http://celestion.com/product/13/celestion_blue/
(data from the Celestion site)
 
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#51
mondogenerator said:
G10 R is a 10" version of the re-issue 'greenback'. Its not a Alnico motor, but is a re-issue of the original green back, except in a 10~" format.
Click to expand...


It has resonance freq of 98 Hz, which is quite typical for a 10" guitar driver. So it really is a 10" 'midrange'. Any driver distorts severely when fed by signal having freqs close to resonance. Maybe it is ok above 200-300 Hz ?
How did you test it ?
 
#52
Elias said:
It has resonance freq of 98 Hz, which is quite typical for a 10" guitar driver. So it really is a 10" 'midrange'. Any driver distorts severely when fed by signal having freqs close to resonance. Maybe it is ok above 200-300 Hz ?
How did you test it ?
Click to expand...

if you read my post then you would know i havent tested and i have no intention to either. A 12" guitar speaker will have an Fs of 55-80hz depending on the exact type (aaccording to what celestion say of their 12s) With low xmax, high Q these 10s produce bass rather a lot better than a midrange, dirty but not gross THD.
 
#54
Keriwena said:
I don't know of anyone using a Beta 12LTA for guitar, do you?

It's true some players prefer clean speakers, and some do use "pro speakers" meant for PA (the EV SRO being the most notable example), but none of those speakers were in the list in the OP. He's looking at "real" guitar speakers - those designed to distort with very little power applied.


tiefbassuebertr, there are two other problems guitar players have you might want to think about before dropping over $200 on a midrange speaker. 12" guitar speakers beam badly over ~1200Hz, perhaps due to the deep cones. And, when used in combination with ceramic speakers, alnicos "get lost" when the volume is turned up because the alnico magnets demagnetize (temporarily) and compress the signal.
For guitar, I love alnico speakers - I have quite a few. But I can't imagine using them in a HiFi/Monitor/PA application. I think trying to build a multi-speaker system with drivers that are deliberately non-linear is going to make you crazy.

IMHO. YMMV. 🙂
Click to expand...

This is true, but typical hifi dome tweeters also compress the signal due the very small voice-coil and bad efficiency.
While some experiments with various alnico guitar speakers and dome tweeters like D2905 and D2008 I note, that the results in the low level area are excellent but not satisfied at higher levels.
 
#55
a good transducer for 2-way systems as an alternative for expensive full range ones is the fostex 12W360 (only available in used condition) - go to the attachment or to
http://wanko.pecori.jp/cside/12w360/P1014896.JPG
found by
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the last pic under post #5 - go to
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ubwoofer-precision-devices-pd2150-inside.html
shows an example for a sandwich enclusure (no parasitic sound at the walls from cabinet). The top uses the 135LB transducer from Supravox - go to
http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/haut_parleurs/135_LB.htm
 

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