Seems odd to extrapolate from them saying one speaker they make is suitable for guitar/bass use as well as in a PA system, to none of their drivers are worth bothering with, because if they're even slightly worthy of having guitar played through them, they can't reproduce music.
Being able to make a reasonable sound with a guitar doesn't automatically mean the speaker's optimised for it.
Chris
Being able to make a reasonable sound with a guitar doesn't automatically mean the speaker's optimised for it.
Chris
I would suggest a good listening before purchase a expensive Alnico driver, as Alnico alone is no assurance of good sound, also is need a good cone,suspension,VC project specially suited to this kind of magnet.
The Tone Tubby 10 and 12 alnico's are so well regarded it hardly seems a "risk". If they don't work out just sell them. After all Lynn Olson doesn't go around singing the praises of just any old driver. If you really want to go in this direction those seem to give the best chance for success and they are so efficient the dynamics should be pretty effortless.
You seem to imply, generically, guitar speakers are not for standard stereo sets, not for hi-fi.
I have seen Jensen Field Coil drivers, 12" and 15" that were used in guitar sets as well as in concert stages. Does the bad impression you give apply to those as well? These have open spiders, making a very different suspension of the cone, I expect quite dynamic.
I plan to make an open baffle with such drivers - and do not want the cymbals to drive me nuts... even though I plan a use for them as low and mid, crossing over at something as low as 500-600 Hz 6dB/oct.
Please clarify this!
albert
Check out the frequency response graph of Lowther's PM6A about
http://fullrangedriver.com/singledriver/response.html
(sroll down a bit).
This is a home audio loudspeaker and no instrumental loudspeaker.
if you don't know this - what you would think about these speaker?
Also the new FOSTEX magnesium fullrange MG130HR looks in the upper range more than an instrumental loudspeaker than a hifi-fullrange - go to
http://www.kit-ya.jp/etc/images/ST00725-F2.jpg
more pics about
FOSTEX MG130HR ???????????????? | Phile-web??????
The Fostex cited above is a midbass.
The FR drivers with that cone design invariably have a dustcap to extend HF.
Lowthers are known to have a very ragged response - nothing new there at all.
Not as bad, though, (for HiFi) as this this guitar speaker:
Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
The main peak is of ~10dB in magnitude.
Chris
The FR drivers with that cone design invariably have a dustcap to extend HF.
Lowthers are known to have a very ragged response - nothing new there at all.
Not as bad, though, (for HiFi) as this this guitar speaker:
Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
The main peak is of ~10dB in magnitude.
Chris
I will add there there technically is not much of a difference between "instrument" speakers and "HiFi" speakers.
Let me explain.
These reproduction AlNico guitar speakers emulate the typical AlNico speaker from years gone by.
Back when "Fender" and other amp companies were purchasing speakers, they were just regular speakers. Nothing special. Typical Jensen P series etc.
If you have access to old AlNico speakers I suggest going that route for your experimentation, rather then laying out huge dough for reproductions.
Like anything else there will be good and bad ones for your application.
I was using P series AlNicos and a tweeter in a similar fashion to what your proposing for quite some time.
I enjoy the fact that others do not value these gems. They are great for experimentation, and when time comes to redo your guitar cabinets you will have the "real thing" rather then $250 reproductions.
In the end they are just speakers, certainly different from "modern" criteria but great speakers nonetheless if you accommodate them with the similar attention to what you would give a modern driver.
Let me explain.
These reproduction AlNico guitar speakers emulate the typical AlNico speaker from years gone by.
Back when "Fender" and other amp companies were purchasing speakers, they were just regular speakers. Nothing special. Typical Jensen P series etc.
If you have access to old AlNico speakers I suggest going that route for your experimentation, rather then laying out huge dough for reproductions.
Like anything else there will be good and bad ones for your application.
I was using P series AlNicos and a tweeter in a similar fashion to what your proposing for quite some time.
I enjoy the fact that others do not value these gems. They are great for experimentation, and when time comes to redo your guitar cabinets you will have the "real thing" rather then $250 reproductions.
In the end they are just speakers, certainly different from "modern" criteria but great speakers nonetheless if you accommodate them with the similar attention to what you would give a modern driver.
I also think the same. This was the reason to start this thread in the hope, that there are already practical experience (from real live).
Although there are many statements here; unfortunately they are only from a theoretical view and not from listening tests and measuring tests after the associated equalizing corrections/crossover networks.
I just wonder what could make AlNico speakers so desirable to some? I can't see how the magnetic field inside the VC-gap would know by what kind of magnet it was created.
vac
vac
for what its worth I liked Eminence's Cannabis Rex and could enjoy it even without a tweeter on vocals. Its relatively high qts and resonance kept its "kick" below what could be had with woofer/coax with 80->109oz magnet but it did sound musical. Here's a pic (need to reduce file size)
http://imageshack.us/a/img13/4289/kannabis12z.jpg
re:alnico - my EV SP12 have huge iron potted alnico motors but don't seem to sound particularly "special" - one could buy a cheap guitar with the difference in price between alnico and ferrite speakers.
http://imageshack.us/a/img13/4289/kannabis12z.jpg
re:alnico - my EV SP12 have huge iron potted alnico motors but don't seem to sound particularly "special" - one could buy a cheap guitar with the difference in price between alnico and ferrite speakers.
It's how the magnet material interacts with the voice coil. The different magnets have different reactance, and due inverse square law the actual flux the coil runs in will be different depending on the strength of the magnet used. (You can use a "weaker" magnet with closer tolerances, and still yield a similar reactance strength of a stronger magnet with a bigger gap, which in turn needs stiffer suspension, loosing fidelity etc.)
AlNico magnets breakup smoother then ceramic. They tend to "compress" sound peaks rather then "break up" and distort like a ceramic magnet does.
AlNico magnets breakup smoother then ceramic. They tend to "compress" sound peaks rather then "break up" and distort like a ceramic magnet does.
the way i see it, pick your evil. Neither compression or clipping of transients are good. the one benefit of neo alnico that i know of is the inherent electrical eddy circuit, which the usual ceramic doesnt have. Downside of this being larger eddy losses.
The suspension linearity of guitar type drivers ismt too good either, not to say modern drivers are perfect, but im sure theyre better. Thus the electrical linearity is a great deal more important to compensate. At best it improves it, at worse it is swamped by the mechanical non linearity. Both these things seem to be at odds with clean reproduction.
The suspension linearity of guitar type drivers ismt too good either, not to say modern drivers are perfect, but im sure theyre better. Thus the electrical linearity is a great deal more important to compensate. At best it improves it, at worse it is swamped by the mechanical non linearity. Both these things seem to be at odds with clean reproduction.
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True, though the added harmonic distortion might sound nice to some: look at all these people using NFB SETs.
exactly. The added harmonics work great with my LP and P-P valve head too! Without it my soloing would sound less accomplished!
Field coil speakers predate designs meant to distort, as they pretty much predate solid body guitars. Jazz players still want hifi, and are fond of solid state amps and little PA speakers, a setup that would never satisfy a rock and roller. With an xover as low as 500Hz, I doubt you'll hear much influence on the cymbals, at least the highs of the cymbals, which is the annoying part.
To be clear, it's not my intention to discourage experimentation. Nor do I have any problems with 'euphonic' systems if that's what one prefers. It's simply that in the original post (by tiefbassuebertr), speakers were listed that are very far from 'hifi', and I wanted the poster to be aware that an alnico Celestion is not simply a 'cheap' version of an alnico Lowther, even though both are used "full-range".
If you hear vintage speakers and like the way they sound, that's cool, but I stand by my contention that modern alnico guitar speakers will be outperformed by hifi speakers which cost as fraction as much, if the goal is true high fidelity.
I'm not sure I want to argue the point, but I submit that the mere presence of alnico in a speaker is a nod to euphonics, rather than accuracy. That's why I love them for guitar!
PS: Alvis, love the name! I've been watching "Kingdom" on NetFlix. Lordy, they were beautiful cars! (Now you're going to tell me it's your actual surname, and spoil everything.
)
in the case of perhaps and OB, H or U frame 'sub' to fullrange type system, then a high Qts driver of a PA or Hifi type should be suitable. Around Qts of 0.7 or more. Lots of stuff on here about it. Im just a little doubtful for fullrange. I have considered a project similar to visatons 'grand orgue' design, using the WS25 woofer in this way, with a fullrange driver.
JBL E120?? I love them! More better bottom end control. Depends on what kinda sound you like. For guitar I mean.
Isn't Bastanis using guitar alnico speakers in their model called Mercury?
Apperently it sounds good.
Link: Bastanis | Mercury
/Pepe
Apperently it sounds good.
Link: Bastanis | Mercury
/Pepe
Riiiiight.
They're running what would appear to be a guitar speaker, with no crossover. I don't think I'd expect much in terms of fidelity, but it might sound "nice" if you manage to avoid the cone break-up.
Chris
Can someone explain to me why the difference in magnet *material* and not magnet's intrinsic field strength affects the sound such as in distortion? Ferrite and Neodymium (actually a compound of neodymium, iron, and boron or NIB) are both ceramics. Aluminum nickel cobalt (alnico) is a metal alloy. The NIB magnet is the newest rare earth magnet and is currently the most powerful, many times more so than alnico. Yet manufacturers still seem to be selling old technology alnico like it has some magic property. To me, it strikes of a similar marketing ploy seen in high end 'audiophile' speaker cables.
If one wanted the most powerful driver per unit volume, the NIB magnet is the way to go (evidenced by how much more compact motors are that use NIB). If one wanted an even more powerful motor for a driver, both the magnet and the voicecoil could be made of superconducting windings and cooled with liquid nitrogen. You would have a zero ohm voicecoil, but that is beside the point....
If one wanted the most powerful driver per unit volume, the NIB magnet is the way to go (evidenced by how much more compact motors are that use NIB). If one wanted an even more powerful motor for a driver, both the magnet and the voicecoil could be made of superconducting windings and cooled with liquid nitrogen. You would have a zero ohm voicecoil, but that is beside the point....
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