Zen Mod said:
Sure is! Good eye. The rig has been discussed a few time on this forum. Nothing fancy, just a simple 2-way with 15" OB and horn on top. Crossover at about 800Hz, 2nd order on both. I call them the "Lounge Lizards".
The crossover didn't really work out as it should. When I built it I did not understand how much midrange engery you have to throw away in open baffle woofers to get the tonal balance right. I do understand, now! =)
So lower mid was wonderful, but no real bottom end, because the EQ wasn't right. Now I know how to fix that.
Vix said:
Ah... sure. I guess lizard on speaker photos are hard to find. I'll send you a better copy, if you want.
well ....... regarding all issues - I think that Beta 15 ( or Alfa 15 , with somewhat more bass and somewhat less definition) with necessary Boucherot ( RC across MC) is still best bet .
chakija - even if Selenium look somewhat better in upper part of graph , Eminence is still better in lower part
chakija - even if Selenium look somewhat better in upper part of graph , Eminence is still better in lower part
Selenium have good driver info on their web site. Their pdf file include quite a bit of graph for the technical minded.
http://www.seleniumloudspeakers.com/site2004/catalogo/linhas.asp?categoria=2
Have fun 😀
http://www.seleniumloudspeakers.com/site2004/catalogo/linhas.asp?categoria=2
Have fun 😀
SamL said:
I think that Zen is quite familiar with selenium range of drivers...😉 .Altec is what he is referring to.
Zen Mod said:
The 811s are driven by the Altec 806a compression drivers (Alnico). Probabaly came out of a pair of Valencia or something like that from the 1960's. 16 Ohm
Good horn and driver combo. Not the real magic I've heard with TAD drivers on a wood horn, or the 288 driver on a 1505 horn - but hey! not the size or price either. 😉 I'm happy with them.
My crossover on this rig was not great because I kept trying to use "textbook" filters and values. So it' hard to judge. Very big sound overall, but tonal balance was too hot in the mids. On somethings it was amazing, like some orchestral recordings -very big and open. The horns seem to a nice wide sweet spot.
Now that I have a better understanding of crossovers and better tools, it's worth going back to redo this.
As for Eminence vs. Selemium, I can't say. Have not tried any Eminence drivers on the same baffle. The 15WP3 has what some would call an ideal Qts for OB, at about 0.6 It's also not a shouty driver, so you don't have to do traps or steep slopes with the crossover.
But it is quite possible that other drivers this size and price could have a better low end. Won't know until you try!
BTW, x-max is important for open baffle bass. If you want real low end, the driver has to move. Or you have to have a lot of drivers.
panomaniac said:
Hi Panomaniac,
Reading the 15WP3's polar response curve, the response after 250Hz onward is not too good. Do you think this is the lack of midrange energy that you experience? I am thinking of using the same 15WP3 (one per side) with Audax PR170M0 and cross around 400-500Hz. Just wonder if I'll face the same problem.
Thanks 😀
Polar response is pretty good, actually. All 15" drivers will beam at 2K, below 2K it's not bad.
Pretty typical for a 15".
There is certainly no lack of midrange. Too much of it, in fact. That's why you have to roll it off in open baffle use. The lack is in the bass, but that's because of the open baffle cancelation. Not unique to this driver.
Really, the Selenium is a nice driver. You could use it fullrange. It would sound a bit dull, since it doesn't go much over 3.5K, but it wouldn't hurt your ears. Only drawback is the 3mm x-max. So putting 2 per side is best!
Edit: You shouldn't have any trouble mating the 15" to your Audax PR170M0. Except that the 6.5 will need to be padded down a lot to match an OB woofer.
I'm currently working on a new design with the 15PW3 and a Hemp 8FRc on open baffle. (The Hemp 6.5 might be a better choice). So it should be similar to what you have. The Audax will need a tweeter, tho.
Pretty typical for a 15".
There is certainly no lack of midrange. Too much of it, in fact. That's why you have to roll it off in open baffle use. The lack is in the bass, but that's because of the open baffle cancelation. Not unique to this driver.
Really, the Selenium is a nice driver. You could use it fullrange. It would sound a bit dull, since it doesn't go much over 3.5K, but it wouldn't hurt your ears. Only drawback is the 3mm x-max. So putting 2 per side is best!
Edit: You shouldn't have any trouble mating the 15" to your Audax PR170M0. Except that the 6.5 will need to be padded down a lot to match an OB woofer.
I'm currently working on a new design with the 15PW3 and a Hemp 8FRc on open baffle. (The Hemp 6.5 might be a better choice). So it should be similar to what you have. The Audax will need a tweeter, tho.
panomaniac said:
Really, the Selenium is a nice driver. You could use it fullrange. It would sound a bit dull, since it doesn't go much over 3.5K, but it wouldn't hurt your ears. Only drawback is the 3mm x-max. So putting 2 per side is best!
Edit: You shouldn't have any trouble mating the 15" to your Audax PR170M0. Except that the 6.5 will need to be padded down a lot to match an OB woofer.
I'm currently working on a new design with the 15PW3 and a Hemp 8FRc on open baffle. (The Hemp 6.5 might be a better choice). So it should be similar to what you have. The Audax will need a tweeter, tho.
Well here down under, I have to pay US$144 to freight a pair of 15PW3. 2 pair will set me back big time. That is why I have to be quite sure of which driver will work for me. Don't quite need the SPL. What I do look for is the impact and dynamic that is seriously lack in my 6.5" 2 way.
I am looking forward to hear your impression on the Hemp 8FRC comparing to Audax PR170M0. Vocal is important in my music enjoyment and it has to be ‘right’. With what you and Lynn have in store, I think I wait over the side line and pick up as must experience as possible. Hope you don’t mind me asking more questions in the future.
😀
SamL said:
If you are interested in buying Hemp 8FRC the nearest distributor is in Singapore,
http://www.leda.com.sg/
the transportation cost would be cheaper, I bought a pair from them.
F.Y.I.
Yep, just look for 15PW3-SLF if you don't like the aluminium dust cap. The paper(textile?) dust cap version wont have as good heat dissipation but probably less coloured sound.
Nice tread b.t.w.
/Jon
Yep, just look for 15PW3-SLF if you don't like the aluminium dust cap. The paper(textile?) dust cap version wont have as good heat dissipation but probably less coloured sound.
Nice tread b.t.w.
/Jon
15W3, Fs=37hz is a bit high and the fact that it may have better midrange wont be worth much anyway ... woofers midrange will probably be down the drain when using double 15" woofers
About the mentioned 6.5" Hemp ... I think the whizzer looks a bit clumsy, as if it dont match the driver size ... in other words, it looks kind of cheap, at least to me ... but its only speculation
Someone linked to a Beyma CM18G, maybe in another thread
About the mentioned 6.5" Hemp ... I think the whizzer looks a bit clumsy, as if it dont match the driver size ... in other words, it looks kind of cheap, at least to me ... but its only speculation
Someone linked to a Beyma CM18G, maybe in another thread
tinitus said:
That's actually lower than the much loved Alpha-15a. Low Fs often means low efficiency, unfortunately. There is no free lunch.
That is, in fact, all it is. Speculation. Have you actually heard or worked with the FR6.5? I haven't. But I do like the FR8c, it's a good driver that I listen to every day. If its little brother is as good but with with less beaming, I'd be happy with it. Of course that's only speculation too. 😀
At some point you have to stop flying from flower to flower and settle on something. No driver is ideal, but many are good. There don't seem to be any dogs in what's been built here.
That seems to be the point of this thread, right? Make a good, informed choice, then build with what you have. The baffle and your crossover will make a HUGE difference in how good the speaker sounds. You can only really know that by building it and tweaking it.
As it is we havent yet heard much about the sound of Hemp drivers at all, exept fore the 8" FR, so like you say yourself ... its all speculation one way or the other ... still think they look cheap though, and I guess they are not ... it was a long wait fore the new Hemp line, and I cannot help but being a bit dissapointed ... they may sound very good though, but fact is that we really dont know
Big quality built PA driver dont loose very much in efficiency when Fs is "low" ...low Fs often means higher efficiency in bass
But using a tubeamp you may not want too low bass at all, but rather settle on a "tight" bass design 😉
Big quality built PA driver dont loose very much in efficiency when Fs is "low" ...low Fs often means higher efficiency in bass
But using a tubeamp you may not want too low bass at all, but rather settle on a "tight" bass design 😉
How is it going Yunick? I'm going to buy two Alphas 15 and make them work with those Betas 15 and also try some midrange swaping.
hakunin said:
I have gone back to a early setting...
1uf for the tweeter,
60uf for Alpha-6 (nichicon muse FG bypassed with Mcap)
8.2mH for Beta-15 wired out of phase. Also bucherout 15uf and 8.2r
I'm have also done the EnABl thingie and 2 layers of clear gloss coat.. It sounds just the same to my supprice...
Only soooooooooo much sweeter... It went from ordinary driver to hi-end kinda.. so much better soundstage-precision, details but the signature of the Alpha is still there.. It's kinda strange that they sound the same but let trough so much...
I'm very happy how they sound now.. 🙂
Wow! 60uF for the Alpha 6? Is it 16 ohm? 8.2mH for the 15s sounds about right.
Whatever works, works. 😉
The EnABL thing is cool, isn't it?
Whatever works, works. 😉
The EnABL thing is cool, isn't it?
panomaniac said:
I know that 60uf is abit little.. I used ~70uf before but the cap made the sound harsh.. This bypassed cap sounds alot better to my ears.. even if it makes a bit of a hole between Beta and alpha.. Maybe I should try to add more capasitance but it sounds so damn nice as it is..
I have a hard time going back to my old box spks.. I even rebuild them to this specs.. HFLS-1
Scroll down to to see XO and graphs..
The EnABl thingie is really cool.. I was kinda sceptic in the beginning but I'm a true beliver now..
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