I have just removed the dustcaps on my 3way woofers, which gave an almost unbelieveable lift in clarity, not just in bass but also upper midrange is now much more transparent
Now I just have to repair and finish it without loosing the gained improvement
Now I just have to repair and finish it without loosing the gained improvement
tinitus said:
true ;
regarding Alpha 6 - I expect that little tweak(s) from our friends BudP and Mamboni will do the job .
regarding APT ....... I cant see from graphs that anything is needed .... mebbe just boucherot ( certainly that thingie always cleared things with all tweeters I previously use , but in more "tight" designs) ;
Beta 15 is also candidate for mentioned physical tweaks ,along with possibility of trying notch ......... but I really have doubts about ,just because I have xperience that boucherot is helpful there enough,especially if complemented with Mamboni and EnABL
now I don't have those spks to play with ( I have Alpha 6 and another (Selenium) tweets, but I dont have Beta15s) nor I have time now..... must finish Pumpkin thingie first, besides all everyday's things on my list........
😉
it's open source,isn't it ............. hehe
edit - in near future (2-3 weeks) I'll have Betas to play with..........
itching itching
All music was played through my laptop feeding Dddac.de (12 chip) through USB, Aleph-P 1.7, Babbelfish-J and All Eminence OB.. The dac puts out 1.6V. Software used is Foobar2000 and ASIO4ALL..
Headphones are Sennheiser HD-25..
These are the song's I played...
1. Jan Garbarek - In Praise Of Dreams
I usually don't listen to jazz all that much, but this is a great album..
2. Pink Floyd - [Pulse (disc 2) ] Wish You Were Here
We all know this one, right 😉
3. Pink Floyd - [The Wall] Hey You
4. Kraftwerk - The Robots
I could play this as loud as I wanted with no problem 🙂
5. Massive Attack - [Collected] Karmacoma
This album have deep, deep bass..
6. Tool - [10,000 Days] The Pot
This song is worth listening to just for the drummer Danny Carey's part from 4:25 and forward.. Absolut brilliant..
7. Metallica - [Master of puppets] Orion
My favorit Metallica song..
This was a bit hard to write about, but I'll do my best..
My discoverys are that the OB's are not as detailed as the headphones. I guess there are less "dips" and "peaks" on the headphones as they are quite a bit more easy on the ears.. Just like tinitus sayed before.. The OB's can be a little too sharp sometimes..
On "heavy" rock, electronic music and Live recordings the OB excel.. It's like being on stage with the singer/band.. The bass is way better on OB aswell.. so much tighter and detailed then my headphones.. The OB's on the other hand have an enourmous soundstage.. Both deep and wide.. But the soundstage may not be as focused as with the headphones.. This is something I really miss..
There is also a bit of intimate (!?) missing.. A closeness to the music/singer..
This is from my unexperienced ears..
Still there are more to come in form of tweaks.. Phase plug for Alpha-6 + EnABL..
If there is any questions please ask 🙂
Great post!
I experienced the same lack of "closeness to the music/singer" while comparing koss porta pro and sennheiser hd 595 i bought for my girlfriend. I don't have experience with many speakers but i blame the lack of closeness on the size of sound source that appears to ear. This means if have closer source with portas and about the same size but a bit furtherfrom ears with hd 595 it appears smaller and looses intimacy. The same thing happens when i put away my headphones and listen to music on my speakers when the mid is a 5". Its totally disappointing on some albums. (crossed with a 10" woofer @ 250Hz)
Now i would like some experts to prove me wrong or not because i find the closeness to be an important thing to me and i'd like to buil by own OB with naturaly close and intimate sound.
About the focus.. I have no experience in building XO's but i read somewhere that unless you get the phase/timing absolutely right the sound is somehow fogged.
And thank you for the description🙂.
I experienced the same lack of "closeness to the music/singer" while comparing koss porta pro and sennheiser hd 595 i bought for my girlfriend. I don't have experience with many speakers but i blame the lack of closeness on the size of sound source that appears to ear. This means if have closer source with portas and about the same size but a bit furtherfrom ears with hd 595 it appears smaller and looses intimacy. The same thing happens when i put away my headphones and listen to music on my speakers when the mid is a 5". Its totally disappointing on some albums. (crossed with a 10" woofer @ 250Hz)
Now i would like some experts to prove me wrong or not because i find the closeness to be an important thing to me and i'd like to buil by own OB with naturaly close and intimate sound.
About the focus.. I have no experience in building XO's but i read somewhere that unless you get the phase/timing absolutely right the sound is somehow fogged.
And thank you for the description🙂.
I like your communication through the music 😉
First I must say that I didnt say that OBs tend to sound sharp ... I said that you might need notches to get the right balance
But you are right that very "open" can be a bit problematic and very often tend to sound thin, like you say, you miss the intimate and closeness
The very deep soundstage is actually created by the dipole design which also is responcible fore the bit of diffuse soundstage ... bipoles and omni polar designs are said to work the same way
On the other hand, a design with good pinpointing and precise soundstage often tend to sound a bit small with "monitor" sound
As you often say, "you cant have your cake and eat it too"
Still, I think a lot can be helped with the xo ... and carpets or
something behind the speakers might help a lot ... and it may be important to smoothe all edges and other roughness, even the chassis screws can be a problem
Also you may have to be realistic about the cost of this speaker
I am not sure I understand the choise of a horn tweeter, but it could be that the controlled directivity actually is a good thing(?)
I have experimented a bit with some cheap Foster horn tweeters
I have four of them and they sounded awfull at first
And then I tried to wire them in series, and magic happened ... two in series and crossed very high actually worked quite nice, almost soft
IF you had a rear tweeter it could be wired in series ... but what I dont know is whether it will be possible to make them work in opposite phase(dipole), when connected in series
First I must say that I didnt say that OBs tend to sound sharp ... I said that you might need notches to get the right balance
But you are right that very "open" can be a bit problematic and very often tend to sound thin, like you say, you miss the intimate and closeness
The very deep soundstage is actually created by the dipole design which also is responcible fore the bit of diffuse soundstage ... bipoles and omni polar designs are said to work the same way
On the other hand, a design with good pinpointing and precise soundstage often tend to sound a bit small with "monitor" sound
As you often say, "you cant have your cake and eat it too"
Still, I think a lot can be helped with the xo ... and carpets or
something behind the speakers might help a lot ... and it may be important to smoothe all edges and other roughness, even the chassis screws can be a problem
Also you may have to be realistic about the cost of this speaker
I am not sure I understand the choise of a horn tweeter, but it could be that the controlled directivity actually is a good thing(?)
I have experimented a bit with some cheap Foster horn tweeters
I have four of them and they sounded awfull at first
And then I tried to wire them in series, and magic happened ... two in series and crossed very high actually worked quite nice, almost soft
IF you had a rear tweeter it could be wired in series ... but what I dont know is whether it will be possible to make them work in opposite phase(dipole), when connected in series
few modest comments from me:
you'll hardly ever get some qualities of good hphns (one of them is closeness) with speakers .............. until much much much more money is in game ......... so , point is , with this "Poor Man's OB" you'll certainly have some unexpected things because cost/result ratio is outrageous , but this thing you'll never have ................
again - we really must wait for final results with EnABL and Mamboni ; just then we can decide what to do as final xover
tweets?
you can wire them as you like ; remember compound bass drivers ,placed face to face ?
you'll hardly ever get some qualities of good hphns (one of them is closeness) with speakers .............. until much much much more money is in game ......... so , point is , with this "Poor Man's OB" you'll certainly have some unexpected things because cost/result ratio is outrageous , but this thing you'll never have ................
again - we really must wait for final results with EnABL and Mamboni ; just then we can decide what to do as final xover
tweets?
you can wire them as you like ; remember compound bass drivers ,placed face to face ?
I suppose compound woofers are wired in paralel, mostly
My question was, " is it possible to have opposite phase with two drivers wired in SERIES"
Which means like this + .. - - .. + 😕
I am convinced that the rear tweeter is very important in such a design
it is my experience with my cheap horn tweeters really benefit a lot when two are wired in series ... i dont use them though, too high xo point
BTW, I dont see why OB cant be intimate/warm ... it must be a matter of xo and choise of drivers and general setup
My question was, " is it possible to have opposite phase with two drivers wired in SERIES"
Which means like this + .. - - .. + 😕
I am convinced that the rear tweeter is very important in such a design
it is my experience with my cheap horn tweeters really benefit a lot when two are wired in series ... i dont use them though, too high xo point
BTW, I dont see why OB cant be intimate/warm ... it must be a matter of xo and choise of drivers and general setup
The OB sound very, very good.. The difference I wrote about is very small and I have still a long way to go before they are done.. I also have big hopes for the EnABL, Mamboni + PP..
You are ofcourse right tinitus.. You mentioned that I may experience some listening fatiquie.. If played loud that is true.. that's what I meant when I wrote "sharp".. I apologize..
Zen Mod, what you say is also true.. The spkr cost is still rediculuosly low compaired to the sound they produce..
Even if the are not perfect in every aspect I have learrned alot and I'm still amazed how good they can sound..
Don't get me wrong... I really enjoy these speakers.. 🙂
You are ofcourse right tinitus.. You mentioned that I may experience some listening fatiquie.. If played loud that is true.. that's what I meant when I wrote "sharp".. I apologize..
Zen Mod, what you say is also true.. The spkr cost is still rediculuosly low compaired to the sound they produce..
Even if the are not perfect in every aspect I have learrned alot and I'm still amazed how good they can sound..
Don't get me wrong... I really enjoy these speakers.. 🙂
You are probably playing them louder than you think. 😉
That's what happens when you get good speakers that can handle the power and don't have the box problems.
You don't think it's loud because there isn't all the distortion you are used to.
Getting the "right" midrange will help a lot. It may be your Alpha 6", or it may be something else. With open baffle, it sure is easy to try other drivers!
If you like them and they are "allowed" to stay int he living room, experimenting with the mid driver would be the first place to go - after you feel that your crossover is in place.
That's what happens when you get good speakers that can handle the power and don't have the box problems.
You don't think it's loud because there isn't all the distortion you are used to.
Getting the "right" midrange will help a lot. It may be your Alpha 6", or it may be something else. With open baffle, it sure is easy to try other drivers!
If you like them and they are "allowed" to stay int he living room, experimenting with the mid driver would be the first place to go - after you feel that your crossover is in place.
The Alpha 6 looks to be about 6db down at 6.5khz, shouldn't the tweeter come in about there maybe 2nd order LR instead of 10khz?
happy.gringo said:
probably if you leave them stock ;
but- this ones are predestined for EnABL,Mamboni and phase plugs
Zen Mod said:
I'm really just enjoying them untill I have time for EnABL +PP..
My work takes up most of my time for the moment as I have started my first "real" job since I finished university...
As soon as I try something new I will report back here 🙂
Well, looks like my Hi-eff OB isn't going to eventuate. I just can't get a decent mid at a sensible price.
The Alpha 6A is not available down here, only $40 ish each at PE, but the quoted freight price for a pair is $108. add in exchange rate and I'm well over $200 AUD for a pair.
Guess I'll just have to keep hunting !
The Alpha 6A is not available down here, only $40 ish each at PE, but the quoted freight price for a pair is $108. add in exchange rate and I'm well over $200 AUD for a pair.
Guess I'll just have to keep hunting !
Andy Graddon said:Well, looks like my Hi-eff OB isn't going to eventuate. I just can't get a decent mid at a sensible price.
The Alpha 6A is not available down here, only $40 ish each at PE, but the quoted freight price for a pair is $108. add in exchange rate and I'm well over $200 AUD for a pair.
Guess I'll just have to keep hunting !
You may have mentioned this already, but have you contacted these folks? They are listed as resellers.
Music Connection
249 Magil Road
Mayslands 5069
South Australia
Telephone: 61-8-8331-8920
ccecere@iprimus.com.au
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