Re: Re: and Yunick.........
can you describe sound little more detailed ?
especially comparing to some somewhat well known pair of spks , if you have any of that type
edit:
I'm more interested in your negative objections than in superlatives ;
did you tried twisting phase of Alpha ?
Yunick said:
can you describe sound little more detailed ?
especially comparing to some somewhat well known pair of spks , if you have any of that type
edit:
I'm more interested in your negative objections than in superlatives ;
did you tried twisting phase of Alpha ?
Re: Re: Re: and Yunick.........
I can try.. But I dont have any known spks that I could compare with.. What's on my hands are the DIY2000 project and the Cyburg's Needle
Well.. compared to the diy2000 spkr which I used every day for the last 4-5 years.. The OB's do have a very big soundstage and great depth, but on some recordings they may not be as focused... They sometimes tend to smear the sound a little..
Also with the higher sensitivity they tell me how much my preamp/amp makes noice.. ouch..
A funny thing that happend when I tested the speakers.. I played pretty loud on some passages and my wife came in to the room and sayed -"wow they really sound good"... She sat down with me and closed her eyes.. I played her some music she likes.. After a while she sayed.. -"It's almost like the are here playing for us".. - When I close my eyes I can see the musicians as they stand on stage"..
I will test some more and post impressions here 🙂
Zen Mod said:
can you describe sound little more detailed ?
especially comparing to some somewhat well known pair of spks , if you have any of that type
edit:
I'm more interested in your negative objections than in superlatives ;
did you tried twisting phase of Alpha ?
I can try.. But I dont have any known spks that I could compare with.. What's on my hands are the DIY2000 project and the Cyburg's Needle
Well.. compared to the diy2000 spkr which I used every day for the last 4-5 years.. The OB's do have a very big soundstage and great depth, but on some recordings they may not be as focused... They sometimes tend to smear the sound a little..
Also with the higher sensitivity they tell me how much my preamp/amp makes noice.. ouch..
A funny thing that happend when I tested the speakers.. I played pretty loud on some passages and my wife came in to the room and sayed -"wow they really sound good"... She sat down with me and closed her eyes.. I played her some music she likes.. After a while she sayed.. -"It's almost like the are here playing for us".. - When I close my eyes I can see the musicians as they stand on stage"..
I will test some more and post impressions here 🙂
Re: Re: Re: and Yunick.........
No.. I have not had the time to fiddle with that yet.. 🙁
Hopefully tomorrow 🙂 I'll report back as soon as tried..
Zen Mod said:
No.. I have not had the time to fiddle with that yet.. 🙁
Hopefully tomorrow 🙂 I'll report back as soon as tried..
Re: Re: Re: Re: and Yunick.........
hehe
just wait to hear them after EnABL and PPlugs...........
please , do .
Yunick said:
hehe
just wait to hear them after EnABL and PPlugs...........
please , do .
Re: Re: Re: Re: and Yunick.........
And the next thing you know you're lampizating your cd player😉.
some amateur questions for Zen Mod:
I've red somewhere that for OB are better non-hifi speakers. What are the parameters OB speakers should have or shouldn't? Why don't people build 4way OB so much? Thanks.
Yunick said:
And the next thing you know you're lampizating your cd player😉. some amateur questions for Zen Mod:
I've red somewhere that for OB are better non-hifi speakers. What are the parameters OB speakers should have or shouldn't? Why don't people build 4way OB so much? Thanks.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and Yunick.........
Yunick doesn't have cd player - he listen web radio only ........
what you mean with non-hifi?
what's hifi?
dreky drivers in dreky boxes with dreky xovers,all that made just to squeeze money from my pocket , and that pocket groves directly from mine well trained brain (empty off course)
bass for OB must have highish Qts ,little greater Xmax and must be Altec- like 😉 (if possible)
mid for OB must be goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!!!!!!
tweet for OB must be on par with previous ones.
ppl don't build 4way OB more from two reasons:
first: ppl builds very few OBs ,overall
second : 4way OB don't have quality of simple ultimate OB ;
simple ultimate OB is made of:
one MAIN driver (mid) and HELPER for bass (read- xover point is low) and helper tweet- only if needed .
so - with that you achieve two needed qualities for ultimate OB - one is NO BOX and other (there are no first and second) is (almost) ONE WAY
clear enough ?
ps. take that as absolute truth ;
anyone who not agree with me is dumb,fool and .......... plain scientist
hakunin said:
some amateur questions for Zen Mod:
I've red somewhere that for OB are better non-hifi speakers. What are the parameters OB speakers should have or shouldn't? Why don't people build 4way OB so much? Thanks.
Yunick doesn't have cd player - he listen web radio only ........
what you mean with non-hifi?
what's hifi?
dreky drivers in dreky boxes with dreky xovers,all that made just to squeeze money from my pocket , and that pocket groves directly from mine well trained brain (empty off course)
bass for OB must have highish Qts ,little greater Xmax and must be Altec- like 😉 (if possible)
mid for OB must be goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!!!!!!
tweet for OB must be on par with previous ones.
ppl don't build 4way OB more from two reasons:
first: ppl builds very few OBs ,overall
second : 4way OB don't have quality of simple ultimate OB ;
simple ultimate OB is made of:
one MAIN driver (mid) and HELPER for bass (read- xover point is low) and helper tweet- only if needed .
so - with that you achieve two needed qualities for ultimate OB - one is NO BOX and other (there are no first and second) is (almost) ONE WAY
clear enough ?
ps. take that as absolute truth ;
anyone who not agree with me is dumb,fool and .......... plain scientist
Thank you for your clear explenation, I'll take it as a truth🙂.
I imagine hi-fi driver as a not-high SPL driver that is often relatively small for the frequencies it is used to reproduce and priced from not-cheap to super-expensive.
I imagine hi-fi driver as a not-high SPL driver that is often relatively small for the frequencies it is used to reproduce and priced from not-cheap to super-expensive.
hakunin said:
and- now you know that you must avoid hifi drivers
edit:
there is one more than universal truth from our friends crazy yanks :
"there is no substitute for cubic inches"
so- here is no substitute for iron and current in amps,and for piston area in spks
Harley,my man............. !!
ps. that's also one utter truth ;
I'm in a mood for wisdom tonight
ya can call me Zen Mood from now .......
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and Yunick.........
Oh............................. you mean a 3-way..
Ok. I'll see what I can do !!
Zen Mod said:
Oh............................. you mean a 3-way..
Ok. I'll see what I can do !!
Yes, we are talking 3 way speaker here. The main difference being that the mid is wide band. So the main midrange driver covers many more octaves than it would in a "normal" 3-way.
The idea is the get the mids right, then help a little at the top and bottom as needed. Choosing that midrange is the critical part. See Lynn Olsen's latest posts on the Beyond the Ariel thread.
This is not a new idea, but an idea that seems to have been a bit ignored over the decades. It's also what "Lampizator" Fikus is saying. It's the idea behind a lot of OBs at the moment. It's what I'm doing with the Hemp 8FRc, though it may not get a tweeter.
The idea is the get the mids right, then help a little at the top and bottom as needed. Choosing that midrange is the critical part. See Lynn Olsen's latest posts on the Beyond the Ariel thread.
Lynn Olson said:
This is not a new idea, but an idea that seems to have been a bit ignored over the decades. It's also what "Lampizator" Fikus is saying. It's the idea behind a lot of OBs at the moment. It's what I'm doing with the Hemp 8FRc, though it may not get a tweeter.
panomaniac said:
hehe
don't get me wrong.............
but- after 1700++ posts in that thread...........
that's sentence for first page .
with all good will and knowledge put in that thread from many DiyAs , I think that pleasure is lost from list of primary goals .
once or twice someone mentioned "Poor Man's OB approach" but it was lost in overall cacophony .
but- luckily - crumbs from that thread are everywhere ...........
Zen Mod said:
Yep! Lots of good info there, plenty to learn from.
I think this thread will have lot to offer in the "Just get them Built" department.
panomaniac said:
Which is how it should be !! 😀
All that theory is great,
but it doesn't play music.
Warning! Warning! (Robot, Lost in Space)
Hi ... I'm always late in getting on the train, but Eminence caught my eye. All of their cone speakers for the last couple of years do not have the leads connecting to the VC glued very well. My re-coner (Jamac Products in Portland, Or 503.252.2929) has had up to 30% failures on the ones he sells and others coming in. Granted most are PA that takes a lot of abuse. OB certainly qualifies for abuse. He does not recommend any cone speakers no matter what the use. Eminence is aware of problem but they get tens of thousands of speakers from China and is probably not an easy thing to change.
Zene
Hi ... I'm always late in getting on the train, but Eminence caught my eye. All of their cone speakers for the last couple of years do not have the leads connecting to the VC glued very well. My re-coner (Jamac Products in Portland, Or 503.252.2929) has had up to 30% failures on the ones he sells and others coming in. Granted most are PA that takes a lot of abuse. OB certainly qualifies for abuse. He does not recommend any cone speakers no matter what the use. Eminence is aware of problem but they get tens of thousands of speakers from China and is probably not an easy thing to change.
Zene
Re: Warning! Warning! (Robot, Lost in Space)
tnx for tip 😉
easy for fix with few drops of two-component glue ;
ad hoc,off course
Zene Gillette said:
tnx for tip 😉
easy for fix with few drops of two-component glue ;
ad hoc,off course
Now that I stuck my big nose in here, I would like to join the discussion if that is OK? There seems to be practical DIYers here. Lynn's thread with it's professors are not for me any more. I spent too many years in theoretical lecture halls. The esoteric speakers mentioned are out for 95% of most DIYers' means. I don't remember the last time I bought 5 pairs of Lowthers to try.
To add something here, I am looking at 15" PA mids. Hi frequency is not too great, but few mids are. I always thought a tweerer can do high frequencies better than any FR speaker. Reason for the 15" is based primarily on electrostatic panels. They have square feet of radiating area. If you are shy of considering big mids just close your eyes (mentally) and see if you can tell the size?
I forgot the last time I saw 8" mids at any kind in a live music outing. There is basically no difference between large venue music and home except multiple speakers to fill the bigger room.
Zene
To add something here, I am looking at 15" PA mids. Hi frequency is not too great, but few mids are. I always thought a tweerer can do high frequencies better than any FR speaker. Reason for the 15" is based primarily on electrostatic panels. They have square feet of radiating area. If you are shy of considering big mids just close your eyes (mentally) and see if you can tell the size?
I forgot the last time I saw 8" mids at any kind in a live music outing. There is basically no difference between large venue music and home except multiple speakers to fill the bigger room.
Zene
Zene Gillette said:
and point/conclusion/tip is?
hehe- except that I agree with almost everything you say
just seems to me that you didn't finished post .........
anyway - I own RCA LC1B (they owe me- in fact) and they're pretty big mid drivers ,besides everything else - so I'm not scared of diameter of any spkr ;
once in a lifetime I have (for short time) pair of heavily tweaked 13,5" one ways ......... they were overall best spks I ever have ........
old Iskra (Slovenia) Cinema bass spks , refurbished in Lowther killers
Zene Gillette said:
Ok then, why are we even discussing Open Back speakers ??
I know of NO venues that use OB speakers. Sure some guitar boxes are OB, but that's about it.
Certainly I have never seen a OB vocal rig.... anywhere !!
hmmmm..
Zen, Andy ... Just saying that large mids have not been in vogue since the Altec days. Thought it was time to go bigger than just the 12" typically considered as very large.
OB is no different than any other speaker system, some advantages and some disadvantages. Not trying by any means to duplicate a stage band's speaker system, only drawing parallels.
Zen ... I never take the dome off any speaker to fix their problem. Did you steal part of my name? tee hee
Zene
OB is no different than any other speaker system, some advantages and some disadvantages. Not trying by any means to duplicate a stage band's speaker system, only drawing parallels.
Zen ... I never take the dome off any speaker to fix their problem. Did you steal part of my name? tee hee
Zene
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