you mean I have to buy a guitar?
this could get expensive.. maybe wiser to buy a better driver to start with .
this could get expensive.. maybe wiser to buy a better driver to start with .
I really think I would prefer to listen to someone else play than myself. Same with singing...lol !!!
Hey Andy, we have 3 things in common. The best thing I can do with a guitar is give it to my daughter. It sounds much nicer in her hands. And if I started singing I'd end up at Newcastle Hospital, MHU.
Geoff
Geoff
Andy ... Oops, misunderstood, thought you said, "play with yourself".
Best live to recorded I was able to do was have a buddy play songs on his trumpet of my regular recorded CD's. I used several different artists. Was pretty good system until I did the comparison. Been building something better ever since. Wish I had a good tape machine to do live vs. recorded of his playing. Might try again with the old Bill Gates Damned Machine. Curious as to what mic (cheap) would work well. Only interested in comparison rather than making a decent recording.
I think a lot of how to build speakers could be learned. Should be simple: play and record, go back and forth with live vs. recorded.
Zene
P.S. I throw this in every few months. When critically listening use a sleeping eye mask like granny used. It's distracting to keep eyes open.
Closing them sends your body into the start of sleep mode.
You'll be a big hit when store auditioning.
Best live to recorded I was able to do was have a buddy play songs on his trumpet of my regular recorded CD's. I used several different artists. Was pretty good system until I did the comparison. Been building something better ever since. Wish I had a good tape machine to do live vs. recorded of his playing. Might try again with the old Bill Gates Damned Machine. Curious as to what mic (cheap) would work well. Only interested in comparison rather than making a decent recording.
I think a lot of how to build speakers could be learned. Should be simple: play and record, go back and forth with live vs. recorded.
Zene
P.S. I throw this in every few months. When critically listening use a sleeping eye mask like granny used. It's distracting to keep eyes open.
Closing them sends your body into the start of sleep mode.
You'll be a big hit when store auditioning.
Geoff H said:
Hi Geoff
Could you please make a drawing of that crossover? Any photo? Isn't 75 Hz too low?
Thanks,
Vix
"When critically listening use a sleeping eye mask like granny used. It's distracting to keep eyes open."
Now that sounds like the days of "Dark Side of the Moon" on my Altec / Wharfedale system.
Vix, 75 Hz works well or sounds well at low level. Too much excursion for my liking on the 6". I've upped it to 100 Hz.
Details are here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1282395#post1282395
I'm now using hi quality auto transformers for chokes, till I optimise the crossover. The multi tapped mains transformers were muddying up the top end, possibly due to stray capacitance of the unused high voltage winding, and maybe less than good quality laminations, but they got me into the ball park.
Geoff.
Now that sounds like the days of "Dark Side of the Moon" on my Altec / Wharfedale system.
Vix, 75 Hz works well or sounds well at low level. Too much excursion for my liking on the 6". I've upped it to 100 Hz.
Details are here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1282395#post1282395
I'm now using hi quality auto transformers for chokes, till I optimise the crossover. The multi tapped mains transformers were muddying up the top end, possibly due to stray capacitance of the unused high voltage winding, and maybe less than good quality laminations, but they got me into the ball park.
Geoff.
A new (to me) test that will improve evaluating speakers.
While I was playing blind man's bluff with the eye mask I realized it was annoying slipping it up to see, so I used the remote on my preamp to set the volume. Music was random mp3's.
I found that each song needed a specfic level to sound good (all are gain set to 89dB). No knobs to look at, just the two old ears.
Every song had a level where it came to life, lower sucked and higher was annoying. I did this for dozens of songs that covered blues, rock, jazz etc. from the 20's to the 90's. Listening at a set level does not work. I'll bet this applies to cd's and wax as well.
This can be proven in a few minutes by running some long IC's to put the preamp at listening position. Jumping up and down to change levels does not work either as you need real time changes.
Alternative that might work is to have someone change for you and use thumb up or down until it's correct. Of course receivers are easy.
Importance is that when evaluating it's easy to blame the speakers when it could be just the source level. This should convince anyone when the "What is the proper listening level?" question comes up.
Zene
While I was playing blind man's bluff with the eye mask I realized it was annoying slipping it up to see, so I used the remote on my preamp to set the volume. Music was random mp3's.
I found that each song needed a specfic level to sound good (all are gain set to 89dB). No knobs to look at, just the two old ears.
Every song had a level where it came to life, lower sucked and higher was annoying. I did this for dozens of songs that covered blues, rock, jazz etc. from the 20's to the 90's. Listening at a set level does not work. I'll bet this applies to cd's and wax as well.
This can be proven in a few minutes by running some long IC's to put the preamp at listening position. Jumping up and down to change levels does not work either as you need real time changes.
Alternative that might work is to have someone change for you and use thumb up or down until it's correct. Of course receivers are easy.
Importance is that when evaluating it's easy to blame the speakers when it could be just the source level. This should convince anyone when the "What is the proper listening level?" question comes up.
Zene
Hi,
A bit off-topic...
I was looking for a locally available 15" OB bass helper (to use with Visaton B200's)...and the choice was quite narrow, namely B&C speakers. I glanced at their website and noticed that most of their 15" woofers have quite a low Qts, 0.25-0.3...
Except this one: http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=3&id_descrizione=32&prodotto=59
15CX40.
Does it make sense to use this coaxial as a bass helper? Its Fs is said to be 44hz, and its Qts is a lowish 0.43. Otherwise, doesn't look bad..
Any opinion?
Thanks,
Vix
A bit off-topic...
I was looking for a locally available 15" OB bass helper (to use with Visaton B200's)...and the choice was quite narrow, namely B&C speakers. I glanced at their website and noticed that most of their 15" woofers have quite a low Qts, 0.25-0.3...
Except this one: http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=3&id_descrizione=32&prodotto=59
15CX40.
Does it make sense to use this coaxial as a bass helper? Its Fs is said to be 44hz, and its Qts is a lowish 0.43. Otherwise, doesn't look bad..
Any opinion?
Thanks,
Vix
It might be able to outclass your B200, but maybe it could be an interesting combination, to use the coax tweeter as a supertweeter, but it should be placed high
But you may not get much deep bass from that woofer
But you may not get much deep bass from that woofer
tinitus said:
That's the one I use. Lovely driver. Sounds pretty good played full range, so crossover is not a problem.
However, it's no bass monster, despite its size. I plan to move mine closer to the floor, and maybe do 2 per side.
On OB, bass really needs a lot of help. Proper EQ is a must.
Funny thing is, tho the OB implementation lacks bass for rock and pop, it rules on classical! Tympani, bass drum, double bass and room tones are magnificent. Have not figured that on out yet. 😕
Very, very clean. But a bit lean.
Hi Michael,
Did you see my link earlier? I spent 1/2 of yesterday listening to a wide range of stuff, including Joe Satriani. No sign of hollow bass. Don't go as deep as Altec 411s, but tighter.
The back of my helpers is more frame than air. That may be a clue to the good results. Mind you, need 4 a side to match the B200.
Geoff.
Did you see my link earlier? I spent 1/2 of yesterday listening to a wide range of stuff, including Joe Satriani. No sign of hollow bass. Don't go as deep as Altec 411s, but tighter.
The back of my helpers is more frame than air. That may be a clue to the good results. Mind you, need 4 a side to match the B200.
Geoff.
Panomaniac, yeah I know you like that Selenium
The reason I deleted the first post, was that I realized that Vix lives in EU, and ordering from PE gets expencive
But I will repeat the link to the other Selenium 18" woofer I found interesting
It has relative low Fs, and I reckon that the small lack of bass you experience with the 15" Selenium, might be due to highish Fs ... maybe a small amount of weight would do good ... also it may be beneficial to remove the dustcap, which on most drivers is a flawed design, and I will only hesitate to remove the dustcap if its glued directly to the voicecoil
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-430
The reason I deleted the first post, was that I realized that Vix lives in EU, and ordering from PE gets expencive
But I will repeat the link to the other Selenium 18" woofer I found interesting
It has relative low Fs, and I reckon that the small lack of bass you experience with the 15" Selenium, might be due to highish Fs ... maybe a small amount of weight would do good ... also it may be beneficial to remove the dustcap, which on most drivers is a flawed design, and I will only hesitate to remove the dustcap if its glued directly to the voicecoil
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-430
Hey Geoff, I had forgotten about your OBs with 6x9s.
I'll post on that thread.
I've tried a number of drivers on OB and found them all to be rather bass shy, sometimes no bass at all. I think you need big drivers, and plenty of them. EQ is going to be needed as well. Big baffles don't hurt.
Martin King seems to have done well with 2 Alpha 15s per side on a big baffle. A buddy of mine uses 2 big magnet 18" Eminence drivers per side with great results. EQ is still needed.
I'll post on that thread.
I've tried a number of drivers on OB and found them all to be rather bass shy, sometimes no bass at all. I think you need big drivers, and plenty of them. EQ is going to be needed as well. Big baffles don't hurt.
Martin King seems to have done well with 2 Alpha 15s per side on a big baffle. A buddy of mine uses 2 big magnet 18" Eminence drivers per side with great results. EQ is still needed.
Choky,
This place seems to be OK, they have listed Betas in their stock.
http://www.rcf-srbija.co.yu/prodaja_zvucnika.html
Maybe I'll get Betas there.
Vix
This place seems to be OK, they have listed Betas in their stock.
http://www.rcf-srbija.co.yu/prodaja_zvucnika.html
Maybe I'll get Betas there.
Vix
Vix said:
I sent you two linx ;
that one is exactly where I buy Eminence and Selenium ,when I need them
Gee...
Gotta check my spam filter; I didn't receive any e-mail from you...😕
Choky, can you please send one again, just for test? I want to see if it will end up in my inbox, or somewhere else...
Thanks
Gotta check my spam filter; I didn't receive any e-mail from you...😕
Choky, can you please send one again, just for test? I want to see if it will end up in my inbox, or somewhere else...
Thanks
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