Greebster et al.
I have manyt times been puzzled with my measurements. Many of them are contradictory and it takes time ( and more measurements) to verify and understand them. For example I don't get hardly any useful info from farfield GD or phase. Perhaps because it is impossible...
Some good links (because I don't have Toole's book)
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20141002/13686.pdf
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20141002/5276.pdf
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20141002/5270.pdf
Harman's collection of papers Harman - Scientific Publications Publications
I have manyt times been puzzled with my measurements. Many of them are contradictory and it takes time ( and more measurements) to verify and understand them. For example I don't get hardly any useful info from farfield GD or phase. Perhaps because it is impossible...
Some good links (because I don't have Toole's book)
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20141002/13686.pdf
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20141002/5276.pdf
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20141002/5270.pdf
Harman's collection of papers Harman - Scientific Publications Publications
Cheap acoustic treatment!
Here I show two set of "room responses" at listening spot of AINOgradients v92. Both measured with 500ms gating. The lower curves are from where my ears are when I sit down but don't lean back, upper are when relaxing and leaning back.
The other pic is directivity measured indoors at 1,5m distance, 20ms gating.
Happy Halloween!
Here I show two set of "room responses" at listening spot of AINOgradients v92. Both measured with 500ms gating. The lower curves are from where my ears are when I sit down but don't lean back, upper are when relaxing and leaning back.
The other pic is directivity measured indoors at 1,5m distance, 20ms gating.
Happy Halloween!
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We have a leather sofa, don't like to sit there unless sitting forward. T totally borqs the sound kicked back, head against leather. Odd thing when I make shifted a speaker similar to the pluto/lxmini laying down they were just as nice as sitting up or kicked back in my lazyboy. No not as clean, but just as enjoyable, maybe even a little more so because I B Chilln. 🙂
Got myself a Christmas present in advance... Sony CDP-X707ES on thevintageknob.org
Big boys keep telling me that The Source is Fundamental Element to good sound. This one is 20 years old and cheap stuff, but "sonically and tonally" a good match with AINOs. Funny, I noticed the "angel's dust" only in the photo!
Big boys keep telling me that The Source is Fundamental Element to good sound. This one is 20 years old and cheap stuff, but "sonically and tonally" a good match with AINOs. Funny, I noticed the "angel's dust" only in the photo!
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No TDA. It is mainly cd-transport for me. Actually it's dac works just fine Sony CDP-X303ES Review
I use Coax to AV-Yamaha's dsp, then rca to minidsp, then rca to ICEpowers...
-
It looks fancy and of course I have the option to use it's dac and connet rcas to Yamaha's 6ch input (bypassing Yamaha's dac/dsp) It could feed the minidsp directlly By toslink or direct rca, but just for convenience I use AV-Yamaha as preamp. Fortunately I have wooden ears, I can't hear any difference in sound between these options! (I suppose it is the minidsp messing everything 😉 )
I use Coax to AV-Yamaha's dsp, then rca to minidsp, then rca to ICEpowers...
-
It looks fancy and of course I have the option to use it's dac and connet rcas to Yamaha's 6ch input (bypassing Yamaha's dac/dsp) It could feed the minidsp directlly By toslink or direct rca, but just for convenience I use AV-Yamaha as preamp. Fortunately I have wooden ears, I can't hear any difference in sound between these options! (I suppose it is the minidsp messing everything 😉 )
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Juhazi,
I have to admit I have read through all the posts on this thread, I like to ask a question on the reason(s) why you mount the Mid-bass(10" driver?) at an angle to the vertical? Any particular advantage and why? BTW what brand of Mid bass did you use?
Thanks.
I have to admit I have read through all the posts on this thread, I like to ask a question on the reason(s) why you mount the Mid-bass(10" driver?) at an angle to the vertical? Any particular advantage and why? BTW what brand of Mid bass did you use?
Thanks.
Hi ttan,
It is 12" Beyma MW with neo motor (discontinued) High efficiency is the key factor!
The 15¤ tilted position is copy of Gradient 1.2 and it looks nice! Angulation does attenuate the floor bounce effect but it still exists. Angle for bounce is roughly 45¤ now and because radiation is dipole, it is almost -10dB.
It is 12" Beyma MW with neo motor (discontinued) High efficiency is the key factor!
The 15¤ tilted position is copy of Gradient 1.2 and it looks nice! Angulation does attenuate the floor bounce effect but it still exists. Angle for bounce is roughly 45¤ now and because radiation is dipole, it is almost -10dB.
AINOgradient NeoC
minidsp-controlled, 4-way active hybrid sealed-dipole speaker
SEAS L26ROY, Beyma MW12Nd, BG Neo8PDR, BG Neo3PDR
B&O ICEpower class D amplifiers
I finally pulled the trigger and purchased a pair of B&G Neo3PDR tweeters (without back cup or faceplate). Got them from Spain by eBay. Unused, in plastic bags. First I put them in normal vertical position in the frame, but measured response was not what I expected. Hopla, turn the thing 90¤ and it gets acoustically narrower because it does not fill the opening in the frame (see pic) Raw measurements, some eq, delay setting and xo set LR4 at 3500Hz - bingo!
Dipole action past 6kHz, excellent! The dip in direct response at 7kHz does not show in backside response, so it might be a "cavity effect" and managed with a new frame. Rear radiation was attenuated in NeoB, now it is equal and room decay measurements look more nice. There is more sparkles in the sound too, which is nice. This feature is easily adjusted with minidsp.
minidsp-controlled, 4-way active hybrid sealed-dipole speaker
SEAS L26ROY, Beyma MW12Nd, BG Neo8PDR, BG Neo3PDR
B&O ICEpower class D amplifiers
I finally pulled the trigger and purchased a pair of B&G Neo3PDR tweeters (without back cup or faceplate). Got them from Spain by eBay. Unused, in plastic bags. First I put them in normal vertical position in the frame, but measured response was not what I expected. Hopla, turn the thing 90¤ and it gets acoustically narrower because it does not fill the opening in the frame (see pic) Raw measurements, some eq, delay setting and xo set LR4 at 3500Hz - bingo!
Dipole action past 6kHz, excellent! The dip in direct response at 7kHz does not show in backside response, so it might be a "cavity effect" and managed with a new frame. Rear radiation was attenuated in NeoB, now it is equal and room decay measurements look more nice. There is more sparkles in the sound too, which is nice. This feature is easily adjusted with minidsp.
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Not so easy to solve the low end of the NEO3 in relation to the NEO8PDR...
Bravo !
My best to you for 2015. Thank you for sharing.
Eldam
Bravo !
My best to you for 2015. Thank you for sharing.
Eldam
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AINO gradient Neo83
I have now new birch plywood baffles for BG Neo8 and Neo3 drivers. The tweeter is paced horizontally, because it measures better that way. The baffles were CNC'd by Kuviopuu and coated with transparent Osmo wood wax. I hope that this MkIII version will serve me for along time! I will buy extra Neos for spare parts because it looks like they will be out of production now.
Drivers
BG Neo3PDR dipole highpass LR4 3500Hz acoustic
BG Neo8PDR dipole highpass LR4 600Hz lowpass LR4 3500Hz
Beyma MW12Nd dipole highpass LR2 160Hz lowpass LR4 600Hz
SEAS L26ROY sealed Lowpass LR2 160Hz
Body
Sealed box 30 liter, MDF slices stacked, automotive paint
Pole and baffle solid birch/plywood, Osmo wood wax
Height 120cm (4') Weight 42kg (92lb)
Minidsp 4x10Hd (analog input from AV-receivers's pre-out, AV works as input selector)
Amplifiers B&O ICEpower ASX125 and 50 modules
Frequency range 15-16000Hz, room eq possible with dsp
Some measurements and pictures!
I have now new birch plywood baffles for BG Neo8 and Neo3 drivers. The tweeter is paced horizontally, because it measures better that way. The baffles were CNC'd by Kuviopuu and coated with transparent Osmo wood wax. I hope that this MkIII version will serve me for along time! I will buy extra Neos for spare parts because it looks like they will be out of production now.
Drivers
BG Neo3PDR dipole highpass LR4 3500Hz acoustic
BG Neo8PDR dipole highpass LR4 600Hz lowpass LR4 3500Hz
Beyma MW12Nd dipole highpass LR2 160Hz lowpass LR4 600Hz
SEAS L26ROY sealed Lowpass LR2 160Hz
Body
Sealed box 30 liter, MDF slices stacked, automotive paint
Pole and baffle solid birch/plywood, Osmo wood wax
Height 120cm (4') Weight 42kg (92lb)
Minidsp 4x10Hd (analog input from AV-receivers's pre-out, AV works as input selector)
Amplifiers B&O ICEpower ASX125 and 50 modules
Frequency range 15-16000Hz, room eq possible with dsp
Some measurements and pictures!
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Still some more bass and upper mid/low treble tuning... After a week's listening this sound still very good. Hancock's River CD is spinning with great pleasure now!
Hello!
Nice effort, but why not second or even first order crossover between the neos? How loud do you you listen? You probably noticed that SL himself ditched the LR4 in the midrange.
The directivity is great, but the step response does not look good..
Nice effort, but why not second or even first order crossover between the neos? How loud do you you listen? You probably noticed that SL himself ditched the LR4 in the midrange.
The directivity is great, but the step response does not look good..
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I have an optional configuration with LR2 all the way.
It measures almost the same but looses far off-axis and backwards. The cone resonance of Beyma is at 16/1800Hz, this is the worst single measured problem. It can be eq'd and it must be done with LR2. Overall distortion is also significantly worse in range of 200-2000Hz at loud volumes. I have posted measurements earlier, perhaps a year ago.
When listening the sound is more diffuse, too much tizzle in low treble here in my rather highly reverberant room.
It measures almost the same but looses far off-axis and backwards. The cone resonance of Beyma is at 16/1800Hz, this is the worst single measured problem. It can be eq'd and it must be done with LR2. Overall distortion is also significantly worse in range of 200-2000Hz at loud volumes. I have posted measurements earlier, perhaps a year ago.
When listening the sound is more diffuse, too much tizzle in low treble here in my rather highly reverberant room.
Hi,
I am always interested in your work because I have very similar set of drivers in my hand and like OB designs.
First a comment on aesthetics:
Because naked drivers look very industrial, I would have gone for an all metal free hanging type frame for the part that is above the subwoofer.
Second:
I have been thinking of using the Neo8s on its own to cover the frequencies >1000Hz (no add on tweeter).
The main problem with that is the vertical dispersion of Neo8s. But reticulated foam wedges might solve that problem as in Raal 140-15D
www.audioexcite.com Blog Archive RAAL 140-15D Ribbon Tweeter Measurements!
You have excellent measurement facilities; would you be game to try the foam trick on Neo8s?
I am always interested in your work because I have very similar set of drivers in my hand and like OB designs.
First a comment on aesthetics:
Because naked drivers look very industrial, I would have gone for an all metal free hanging type frame for the part that is above the subwoofer.
Second:
I have been thinking of using the Neo8s on its own to cover the frequencies >1000Hz (no add on tweeter).
The main problem with that is the vertical dispersion of Neo8s. But reticulated foam wedges might solve that problem as in Raal 140-15D
www.audioexcite.com Blog Archive RAAL 140-15D Ribbon Tweeter Measurements!
You have excellent measurement facilities; would you be game to try the foam trick on Neo8s?
BTW, I did try Neo8s as a tweeter with some wool felt applied in up-down position
(neo pdr use felt in left-right position)
and it sounded very good to my ear (better than neo3 actually)
no measurements though
(neo pdr use felt in left-right position)
and it sounded very good to my ear (better than neo3 actually)
no measurements though
I have not tested Neo8PDR for off-axis vertically (on long dimension) with recorded data. I don't think foam wedges would do much benefit.
I will soon get a sparepart Neo8PDR, then I can run some tests. Changing the Fountek NeoCD3.5 to BG Neo3 resulted in much wider vertical dispersion an heavier backside radiation. These gave a really good and natural increment to upper treble in the room.
After these experiences I believe in wide dispersion treble! Narrow disp. is not as good even if one sits in the spot, because decay is too fast compared to other frequencies!
Regarding frame construction esthetics and functionality, perhaps things could be better in either or both... But I am stuck with Finnish birch plywood!
I will soon get a sparepart Neo8PDR, then I can run some tests. Changing the Fountek NeoCD3.5 to BG Neo3 resulted in much wider vertical dispersion an heavier backside radiation. These gave a really good and natural increment to upper treble in the room.
After these experiences I believe in wide dispersion treble! Narrow disp. is not as good even if one sits in the spot, because decay is too fast compared to other frequencies!
Regarding frame construction esthetics and functionality, perhaps things could be better in either or both... But I am stuck with Finnish birch plywood!
I am getting ready to attend to the Finnish DIY-event held in Hyvinkää 23rd May. On a rainy Sunday I fixed a new 18-page presentation, available as pdf from me. PM me to ask for it!
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I just purchased a NHT Power2 amplifier, second hand. 2x500W of ICEpower D-class!
After the diy-event May 23rd I will rearrange the amplification - Power2 to drive lower mids, 125ASXs in BTLmode (250W) to drive bass units. 50ASX seems sufficient to drive the rather sensitive BG Neo units.
After the diy-event May 23rd I will rearrange the amplification - Power2 to drive lower mids, 125ASXs in BTLmode (250W) to drive bass units. 50ASX seems sufficient to drive the rather sensitive BG Neo units.
-and the oddity is that most designs (diy and commercial) seem to be on a "course" headed in the opposite direction. Often proclaiming some objective virtue with respect to minimizing room reflections. 🙁
Note the "depth" add-on to the Sonus Faber Aida (scroll down to the bottom and left):
http://www.absolutesounds.com/pdf/main/press/SF Aida-audiophile0712.pdf
and heard here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elAPzY-ZhXE