That might be, but if somebody posts information from that source and comments "who writes such nonsense" then it must be nonsense. Otherwise correct informations will be marked as nonsense and that doesn´t help.
@ Waly,
it´s interesting that you basically also think the information is correct and even we agree on the very questionable last sentence of the cite paragraphs.
I guess if you realize (again) that the mains cables carry most likely some RF frequencies the mentioning of the characteristic impedance doesn´t seem as dubious as before.
I probably deserve this, for wasting my time in discussing that garbage.
No Mr. Jakob, we don’t agree on anything in that techno babble.
Let´s see, quote from your post in which you commentet the text cited by Tromperie (your text enclosed by square brackest9:
The first line is about the AC power source grid not developed to .....
Your answer is "So,what" which acknowledged correctly that it _really_wasnt developed....
The next line is about AC noise and the exacerbation by addtional HF noise....
Your answer was "really, exacerbated?" , which correctly implicitely acknowledged the effect but not the "exacerbated" .
Then you objected to the reasoning in the distortion and signal loss due to masking (although it might be onyl meant that signal loss it evoked by masking)
And you objected correctly (imo) to the statement about the other conditioners and mains cable not "up to the task" (a statement that i indeed missed before)
To the next two statements you responded with "Yes" , so i´m afraid but that is confirmation.
Then you objected in the case of the characteristic impedance, and as i pointed out before, the objection is questionable.
And in case of the last sentence we agree that there is evidence missing, ok your "BS" statement use a bit stronger words.
So, mainly you agreed (correctly as i do) to the statements, maybe without realizing it.
And so should we, as the informations are basically correct, beside some wording problems.
Problems arise mainly due to unsupported conclusions from these informations about what to do.
DIY cable flames start here
refer to DIY Power Cord
I found my audio delusional sonic bliss building a variation of Chris VH cables. Using what I had on hand it is simple but effective. 12 gauge copper for live and neutral twisted pair. Safety ground is 10 gauge copper twisted in opposite direction around the conducting pair one twist per foot. FWIW, the wire is stranded but using 20guage strands, not usual fine strand) Beefy IEC connectors... nothing exotic. Finally add a ferrite bead to the safety wire at the load end (not on the conductor pair).
On his site there are lots of audiofool descriptions of perceived results. In my case (no double blind test) I can cite an evening when local audio enthusiasts came to my place bringing their favorite amps to compare using same source and speakers. After 3 flavors of tube amps, OTL & conventional … all agreed mine to be the winners. I suggested they retry their amps using my power cord, replacing a good quality commercial IEC cable like you find on a computer server. All agreed a substantial improvement in sound quality... notably bass strength and dynamics.
refer to DIY Power Cord
I found my audio delusional sonic bliss building a variation of Chris VH cables. Using what I had on hand it is simple but effective. 12 gauge copper for live and neutral twisted pair. Safety ground is 10 gauge copper twisted in opposite direction around the conducting pair one twist per foot. FWIW, the wire is stranded but using 20guage strands, not usual fine strand) Beefy IEC connectors... nothing exotic. Finally add a ferrite bead to the safety wire at the load end (not on the conductor pair).
On his site there are lots of audiofool descriptions of perceived results. In my case (no double blind test) I can cite an evening when local audio enthusiasts came to my place bringing their favorite amps to compare using same source and speakers. After 3 flavors of tube amps, OTL & conventional … all agreed mine to be the winners. I suggested they retry their amps using my power cord, replacing a good quality commercial IEC cable like you find on a computer server. All agreed a substantial improvement in sound quality... notably bass strength and dynamics.
I have tried all the Audioquest storm series cables on CD players, DAC's, preamps, power amps and they have improved the sound in every case. This is with both tube and SS equipment. It is also very high end equipment.
Have any of you, that feel they don't make a difference, tried them like I have? I have an open mind about new products. Do you?
Have any of you, that feel they don't make a difference, tried them like I have? I have an open mind about new products. Do you?
You propose to shield 6' of power cable and ignore the miles of power distribution wire, many yards of lead in to the utility box, and many feet of distribution within the walls of your residence.
How is the last 6' going to stop all the rf already picked up?
This is utter nonsense.
If you really want to do something, build a filter / distribution box that all of your audio gear plugs into as a single point ground, and gets rid of all the noise generated by CFLs, LEDs, Computer switching power supplies, TV switching power supplies, Electronic Florescent lamp ballasts, and include a ferro resonant transformer to get rid of the harmonic distortion as well.
Try to compare a standard black IEC cable with a standard white IEC cable...there is difference.
Dan.
PS - IEC cable plugged into a filtered power board plugged into an autotransformer AC voltage regulator.
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I do not propose. The OP asked if anyone has had any experience. I do and I reported it. It may be of interest to someone. Clearly not you.
I report it because it works, but as you suggest it is not something one would expect to work for all the reasons you cite.
I did build a filter / distribution box that all of my audio gear plugs into, and it does make a difference. It also contains a circuit to eliminate DC offset. Also helped but likely relates to an issue with power quality in my neighborhood. I experimented with isolation transformer, but found it at best helped the digital front end but detrimental to amps. But surprise, the 2' cable between the filter/distribution box and the amp also makes a difference, so nonsense or not, I report it as is the purpose of this thread is to report experience.
A three-core mains cable, as used in the UK, will have a number of characteristic impedances depending on which you regard as the signal and return conductors. In addition, as for a two-core, it will also have an equivalent characteristic impedance as an antenna element with all conductors in parallel. Which one do you think they meant by "characteristic impedance"? After all, if they think it is important they must know which one they are talking about.Jakob2 said:
The text under discussion is mostly FUD, using technical-sounding language to confuse people who don't really understand wires. Presumably the aim is to sell something?
Doesn´t that depend on the kind of noise that is carried by the mains cable?
Basically it seems that we agree on the fact that impedance mismatch can indeed alter the attenuation characteristics of an line cord wrt HF.
We were discussing if the text is "only nonsense" which apparently isn´t correct.
I guess it is considered to be FUD if you strongly belief that a differently constructed "line cord" can´t lead to an auditory difference. (assuming as usual sufficient cross section and connection).
If you can´t rule out, is it still FUD?
It´s obviously a marketing text.........
If it works generally can be proved by measurements; if it makes an audible difference can´t be proved (as you should know) and at least you should tell what kind of evidence you´d like to see.
No thanks.
Matt, I suspect you mean well and are encouraging an engineering discipline which I fully respect. The products we enjoy day to day would not exist if there were not talented designers who learn and apply scientific principle and engineering rigor to produce them.
But I have neither the skill nor the inclination to write a scientific dissertation on this topic. And to what purpose. Even when someone offered the papers from an engineer who is a cable designer it gets shot down for sport as do all of the posts where mere hobbyists report their observations to be taken for what they are... One person's experience with all of the inherent limitations.
This is a hobby site. I appreciate and respect the scientifically proven principals which are presented as well as the experiences of mere hobbyists.
I enjoy red wine. I go to enthusiast sites and read ratings, experiences and observations to help me take an educated guess at things I might want to try. Some times I get a winner and sometimes not worth repeating. But it opens my mind to try things I might otherwise miss.
It would be equally off-putting if every time someone suggested they found a particular vintage and particular year worth a try, that the same crowd of chemical engineers shouted - Prove it!!! show me the chemical analysis which guarantees the so called flavor you have the audacity to suggest. Of course we develop a thick skin and take no offense an go on enjoying our hobby.
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The wine analogy is often used but doesn't hold up, there are no similarities between the differing flavours of wine and hi-fi reproduction. These kinds of analogies are often used by people in the business of selling dubious audio products. This is no secret. It's not about writing a scientific dissertation, it's about measurements
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