Just got my mother a 50" samsung plasma for christmas to replace her little zenith crt.
I'd like to set her up with a little hearing assistance, more for her guest's sake than her own. She's happy to just blast it all day.
Wanting to use parts on hand I plugged a 3.5mm stereo plug into the "audio out" jack at the back of the televison and ran a 25 ft extension through the access hole behind the tv and up through another hole behind her chair.
I plugged that jack into the back of a tiny little radio shack SA-155 amplifier so she could adjust the volume herself...
...using the cd/tape inputs. Headphones are plugged into the front.
Unlike other devices I've seen the televison does not cancel internal speakers when the 'headphone' jack is used.
Before I test drive this, is there any reason for concern? The cd/tape input measures 77K ohm. Do I risk damage to the television set in any way? Is there a more correct way to do this?
Tuner inputs measure 77K and phono measure 95K.
I'd like to set her up with a little hearing assistance, more for her guest's sake than her own. She's happy to just blast it all day.
Wanting to use parts on hand I plugged a 3.5mm stereo plug into the "audio out" jack at the back of the televison and ran a 25 ft extension through the access hole behind the tv and up through another hole behind her chair.
I plugged that jack into the back of a tiny little radio shack SA-155 amplifier so she could adjust the volume herself...
...using the cd/tape inputs. Headphones are plugged into the front.
Unlike other devices I've seen the televison does not cancel internal speakers when the 'headphone' jack is used.
Before I test drive this, is there any reason for concern? The cd/tape input measures 77K ohm. Do I risk damage to the television set in any way? Is there a more correct way to do this?
Tuner inputs measure 77K and phono measure 95K.
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No, no and no.
There's no reason for concern. 77k is highly unlikely to damage anything, it can't pull a lot of current. There isn't a more correct way to do it.
You might get a slightly improved result with custom filtering. In order to do this you would need to know the profile of your mother's hearing. I don't know how this is done professionally, but you could could get an approximate curve by playing her a rising tone generated by a computer through the headphones, and asking her to report any dropouts. Then you'd want a graphic eq. with boost in the places where her hearing is weak. Or you could just let her loose on the equaliser to adjust it for herself, although that might have it's down side depending on her personality.
She might actually prefer a couple of small speakers attached to her chair instead of headphones. While I enjoy headphones sometimes, I don't want to wear them continuously and they interfere with hearing other things like the phone, doorbell etc.
w
Nice gift.
Thank you very much wakibaki. I gave it a go and it works really quite well.
The equalizer is a very interesting idea. I don't own an equalizer any more, but I see them often at goodwill for five dollars. The test tones ought to be an easy download to find and deliver via the laptop. I could research a bit further and see if there might even be software dedicated to looping signals back through my laptop via the equalizer, but given that just listening to tones is somewhat subjective in the first place, it would probably be sufficient just to have her look at a plot of dips, fill them with the equalizer settings, and hope for the best.
Wait a sec... now that I think of it she was tested three months ago by an audiologist. I'll just drop by and ask for a print out and stop by goodwill on the way home!
Thanks for the suggestion.
Happy New Year !!!!!
The equalizer is a very interesting idea. I don't own an equalizer any more, but I see them often at goodwill for five dollars. The test tones ought to be an easy download to find and deliver via the laptop. I could research a bit further and see if there might even be software dedicated to looping signals back through my laptop via the equalizer, but given that just listening to tones is somewhat subjective in the first place, it would probably be sufficient just to have her look at a plot of dips, fill them with the equalizer settings, and hope for the best.
Wait a sec... now that I think of it she was tested three months ago by an audiologist. I'll just drop by and ask for a print out and stop by goodwill on the way home!
Thanks for the suggestion.
Happy New Year !!!!!
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Advise from one who is one:
1) Stereo only ... surround sound through multiple speakers tends towards muddy ... cross cancelation at some frequencies, re-enforcement at other frequencies.
2) A second set of (stereo) speakers close to the hearing impaired listener ... with a separate boost level control, if possible.
3) HeadPhones ! with their own amp & controls ... A high quality DIY headphone amp with very good "headroom" and very low "noise floor" = better yet. ...
4) Equalizer / tone controls set to boost the "treble" (or "brightness") a bit ... or defeat some of the bass. Old ears tend to have a bit of trouble with bass = contributes toward muddy-ness. (If you put an active band equalizer in the circuit of a second set of speakers for the poor guy, even better way to cut certain frequencies, boost others.) >>>
1) Stereo only ... surround sound through multiple speakers tends towards muddy ... cross cancelation at some frequencies, re-enforcement at other frequencies.
2) A second set of (stereo) speakers close to the hearing impaired listener ... with a separate boost level control, if possible.
3) HeadPhones ! with their own amp & controls ... A high quality DIY headphone amp with very good "headroom" and very low "noise floor" = better yet. ...
4) Equalizer / tone controls set to boost the "treble" (or "brightness") a bit ... or defeat some of the bass. Old ears tend to have a bit of trouble with bass = contributes toward muddy-ness. (If you put an active band equalizer in the circuit of a second set of speakers for the poor guy, even better way to cut certain frequencies, boost others.) >>>
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Hello,
Been down a similar path with a family member.
The headphones help with the hearing however they isolate the person from others in the room too much. No chance for conversation.
What worked best was a stereo receiver connected to the aux output of the TV. The receiver has a remote control for the user. The output of the receiver is a small pair of near field speakers on a side table near the user. This configuration helps well with the hearing and the user is in control of what she hears, programming or conversation, sort of both.
DT
All just for fun!
Been down a similar path with a family member.
The headphones help with the hearing however they isolate the person from others in the room too much. No chance for conversation.
What worked best was a stereo receiver connected to the aux output of the TV. The receiver has a remote control for the user. The output of the receiver is a small pair of near field speakers on a side table near the user. This configuration helps well with the hearing and the user is in control of what she hears, programming or conversation, sort of both.
DT
All just for fun!
Wow, more nice advice. I'm away for a couple of months and forget what a great forum this is.
I give some thought to all of the input.
It's great to hear from others who have negotiated the same path. The headphones probably would make it difficult to interact with anyone else in the room. I'll have to see how she adjusts. Who knows? That might end up being a plus for her while watching television! Her sense of humor, and patience with others, seems to be flagging as much as her hearing these days.
The setup menu provides options for internal/external speaker. When external is chosen the internal speakers are defeated. But when internal is chosen the the headphone jack remains active and inserting a plug does not defeat the internal speakers. Seems a little odd, but that's the way samsung has set it up and it happens to work out perfectly for this application.
On these modern televisions there is a 3.5mm (headphone) jack, and a digital (optical) audio out. There are no RCA audio outs. Perhaps the menu selection only applies to the digital out, or perhaps it is merely a defeat for the internal speakers. No matter. Ma has no interest in surround sound (thank god.. another can o' worms... so the internal speakers are a go!
Incidentally, going from a 25 year old Zenith CRT to a 50" Plasma has really left her awe struck. As you can imagine, talking a 76 year old into something this new was a battle, but I was confident that she had little idea what she was missing. I was right.
Thanks again for the advice and happy holidays guys.
I give some thought to all of the input.
It's great to hear from others who have negotiated the same path. The headphones probably would make it difficult to interact with anyone else in the room. I'll have to see how she adjusts. Who knows? That might end up being a plus for her while watching television! Her sense of humor, and patience with others, seems to be flagging as much as her hearing these days.
The setup menu provides options for internal/external speaker. When external is chosen the internal speakers are defeated. But when internal is chosen the the headphone jack remains active and inserting a plug does not defeat the internal speakers. Seems a little odd, but that's the way samsung has set it up and it happens to work out perfectly for this application.
On these modern televisions there is a 3.5mm (headphone) jack, and a digital (optical) audio out. There are no RCA audio outs. Perhaps the menu selection only applies to the digital out, or perhaps it is merely a defeat for the internal speakers. No matter. Ma has no interest in surround sound (thank god.. another can o' worms... so the internal speakers are a go!
Incidentally, going from a 25 year old Zenith CRT to a 50" Plasma has really left her awe struck. As you can imagine, talking a 76 year old into something this new was a battle, but I was confident that she had little idea what she was missing. I was right.
Thanks again for the advice and happy holidays guys.
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Hello,
Been down a similar path with a family member.
Here is the rest of the story.
Mom may have her remote for her near field speakers. If she turns off or down her speakers you will not be able to hear.
We have found the TV speakers should work for all in the room and Mom’s remote for her near field speakers should be separate.
DT
All just for fun!
Been down a similar path with a family member.
Here is the rest of the story.
Mom may have her remote for her near field speakers. If she turns off or down her speakers you will not be able to hear.
We have found the TV speakers should work for all in the room and Mom’s remote for her near field speakers should be separate.
DT
All just for fun!
I have a related question.
dad is very hard of hearing, and getting worse.
He watches tv alone (with headphones, VERY loudly)
so loud, he cant hear anything else around him at all.
question is, why dont these deaf people just use their hearing aids ??
dad has them, refuses to use them.
when ive asked him or suggested it, he walks of and sulks...
Help me understand.
The technology is there, yet a lot seem to have a pathological fear of it..
dad is very hard of hearing, and getting worse.
He watches tv alone (with headphones, VERY loudly)
so loud, he cant hear anything else around him at all.
question is, why dont these deaf people just use their hearing aids ??
dad has them, refuses to use them.
when ive asked him or suggested it, he walks of and sulks...
Help me understand.
The technology is there, yet a lot seem to have a pathological fear of it..
Hello,
If Dad was not so deaf you would not be so blind!
How do I do this, it is a complex mix of topics.
First hearing aids do not cure anything, to many they are a huge disappointment. If you with your intact hearing go to a holiday party you hear many things and you can focus on any one of many conversations within ear shot. Hearing aids just make things louder like the rumble of the refrigerator compressor in the kitchen and you cannot make intelligence of any of the conversations.
Now add the psychology of an old cranky fart. You are old depressed and you cannot hear.
It is not about the technology.
DT
All just for fun!
I guess if you use a hearing aid it's an admission that you're going deaf. Other people can see you wearing it, so they know you've got a problem. In days gone by deaf people sometimes got treated with a lot of prejudice. Put these things together and I can see why someone might shy away from wearing a hearing aid, illogical as it may be in terms of getting to hear better.
I remember getting a certain amount of stick about wearing glasses. Once I got contact lenses I wouldn't go out in glasses. It wasn't vanity. I used to get in a lot more fights previous to that. I believe that was because a certain kind of person looks at somebody wearing spectacles and sees a victim.
I guess it might require the utmost in tact and understanding and patience to be able help some people.
w
I remember getting a certain amount of stick about wearing glasses. Once I got contact lenses I wouldn't go out in glasses. It wasn't vanity. I used to get in a lot more fights previous to that. I believe that was because a certain kind of person looks at somebody wearing spectacles and sees a victim.
I guess it might require the utmost in tact and understanding and patience to be able help some people.
w
What ?!?!?! Hearing aids don't cure cancer ?!?!?!?
No one ever told me that.. *rollseyes with much sarcasm* Insert big cheesy grin here ....
HOW are they a disappointment ?
Are those that need/use them expecting to be able to hear like an 18 year old again ?
Even I know thats not going to happen.
Aids, are called aids for a reason.
I wear glasses, they are an aid, I certainly don't expect them to 'cure' my failing eyesight.
Ok, so they amplify the weak frequencies, i understand that.
your argument about focusing on one area of whats being heard.
Don't 'normal' people hear all sounds etc at a *uniform level ?
*(not going into full psychoacoustic properties here)
If so, then aren't the 'normals' just using the brains ability to 'filter' what they want to hear anyway ?
So, hearing aids or not, shouldn't it just be a matter of being able to concentrate on what is important to you at that time ?
Isn't using headphones, or turning the volume up on a tv/radio/etc, doing basically a similar thing as using an amplified 'personal' speaker (hearing aid) ?
To recap, I'm not hard of hearing, and as such, I don't understand the reluctance of people to use whats available.
No one ever told me that.. *rollseyes with much sarcasm* Insert big cheesy grin here ....
HOW are they a disappointment ?
Are those that need/use them expecting to be able to hear like an 18 year old again ?
Even I know thats not going to happen.
Aids, are called aids for a reason.
I wear glasses, they are an aid, I certainly don't expect them to 'cure' my failing eyesight.
Ok, so they amplify the weak frequencies, i understand that.
your argument about focusing on one area of whats being heard.
Don't 'normal' people hear all sounds etc at a *uniform level ?
*(not going into full psychoacoustic properties here)
If so, then aren't the 'normals' just using the brains ability to 'filter' what they want to hear anyway ?
So, hearing aids or not, shouldn't it just be a matter of being able to concentrate on what is important to you at that time ?
Isn't using headphones, or turning the volume up on a tv/radio/etc, doing basically a similar thing as using an amplified 'personal' speaker (hearing aid) ?
To recap, I'm not hard of hearing, and as such, I don't understand the reluctance of people to use whats available.
Old'n'Cranky, me too
Hello,
I am not trying to pick on you nor am I making this stuff up.
You cannot fix it and it is not about the technology. Look up the Kübler-Ross model for the 5 stages of grief. Denial and Anger are good start.
BTW it is not just paying attention and will power that lets you sort out the intelligence in sound. The refrigerator and chairs sliding on the floor drown out the conversation, really, hearing aids and all.
Hearing aids can help in a quiet one on one conversation with minimal interference. Look Dad in the eye when you talk with him.
You did say “help me to understand”.
DT
All just for fun!
Hello,
I am not trying to pick on you nor am I making this stuff up.
You cannot fix it and it is not about the technology. Look up the Kübler-Ross model for the 5 stages of grief. Denial and Anger are good start.
BTW it is not just paying attention and will power that lets you sort out the intelligence in sound. The refrigerator and chairs sliding on the floor drown out the conversation, really, hearing aids and all.
Hearing aids can help in a quiet one on one conversation with minimal interference. Look Dad in the eye when you talk with him.
You did say “help me to understand”.
DT
All just for fun!
I do realise your not "picking on me".
think of me as someone thats never seen or heard of a car, and you have to explain what it is and why its needed...
i understand about the grief etc cycle.
its just the logical side of me that has issues understanding the finer (real ?) details of this issue in particular..
For what its worth, and closer to the op.
dad also has a s'sung tv (6 series led)
has hphone, optical, hdmi outputs, using the hphone socket does disable the built in speakers.
it has a graphic eq built in, but sadly it only works on the built in speakers...
so i've come to the conclusion the only way i can help him is to use the hphone output, through an old car equalizer then to his 'phones...
think of me as someone thats never seen or heard of a car, and you have to explain what it is and why its needed...
i understand about the grief etc cycle.
its just the logical side of me that has issues understanding the finer (real ?) details of this issue in particular..
For what its worth, and closer to the op.
dad also has a s'sung tv (6 series led)
has hphone, optical, hdmi outputs, using the hphone socket does disable the built in speakers.
it has a graphic eq built in, but sadly it only works on the built in speakers...
so i've come to the conclusion the only way i can help him is to use the hphone output, through an old car equalizer then to his 'phones...
Hello,I do realise your not "picking on me".
think of me as someone thats never seen or heard of a car, and you have to explain what it is and why its needed...
i understand about the grief etc cycle.
its just the logical side of me that has issues understanding the finer (real ?) details of this issue in particular..
For what its worth, and closer to the op.
dad also has a s'sung tv (6 series led)
has hphone, optical, hdmi outputs, using the hphone socket does disable the built in speakers.
it has a graphic eq built in, but sadly it only works on the built in speakers...
so i've come to the conclusion the only way i can help him is to use the hphone output, through an old car equalizer then to his 'phones...
Speaking of technology and hearing loss. Louder may not be better. Hearing loss varies with the individual. Also hearing loss is not linear across the frequency bands. It is possible that the high frequencies even in the 300 to 3000 Hz (voice) range are so far gone that no amount of amplification/equalization will help.
Some hearing aids use digital signal processing technology and the higher voice range tones are converted to lower frequencies where they are audible to the impaired ear-brain. This is both good and bad. You can hear stuff you could not hear before including the chair dragging across the floor.
Perhaps we audiophiles can take some of that DSP technology put it in a box connect it to the optical/HDMI outputs at the TV. It is hardly the basic high frequency equalization Tom Edison used for his hearing loss or the cut / boost equalization we think of.
If I have sold you I also have a used dodge pickup to sell.
DT
All just for fun!
Her hearing loss came on pretty suddenly. She's 76. Seems like in the course of about three months last year it went from excellent to having to ask everyone to repeat what was said... louder. That suddenness can be a factor in a few ways. Made her testier about it and that irritation was reciprocated, unfortunately, too often. And the suddenness so suggested something temporary, wax buildup, infection, etc, that she spent a lot of effort trying to 'cure' it... but to no avail.
She too insists that she doesn't need/want a hearing aid. It's frustrating. She openly appreciates the "aid" I've set up on the television. But she'd prefer to have it seen as a temporary thing.
My great aunt finally reliquished her driver's license this summer. 93yrs old. About five years too late as far as all around her were concerned. It was a wonder that she never killed or was killed in that time. She didn't even seem to like driving, and we'd chauffeur her anywhere, anytime she needed like a queen. But she so identified losing the privilege as a marker of decline that she fought it like an illness. Mom probably sees the hearing aid similarly.
Guess I won't really know how it feels till I get there. I'm on my way. I was pretty unkind to my eardrums through the years and tinnitus is a part of life now.
Sorry I've gotten so off topic in this part of the board. But thanks again for the input, kind advice, and sharing stories.
She too insists that she doesn't need/want a hearing aid. It's frustrating. She openly appreciates the "aid" I've set up on the television. But she'd prefer to have it seen as a temporary thing.
My great aunt finally reliquished her driver's license this summer. 93yrs old. About five years too late as far as all around her were concerned. It was a wonder that she never killed or was killed in that time. She didn't even seem to like driving, and we'd chauffeur her anywhere, anytime she needed like a queen. But she so identified losing the privilege as a marker of decline that she fought it like an illness. Mom probably sees the hearing aid similarly.
Guess I won't really know how it feels till I get there. I'm on my way. I was pretty unkind to my eardrums through the years and tinnitus is a part of life now.
Sorry I've gotten so off topic in this part of the board. But thanks again for the input, kind advice, and sharing stories.
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I built my dad a headphone amp for a similar problem.
The essentials though were based on an idea in Electronics and Wireless World many years ago. It uses a tuned circuit, a coil and cap and resistor to generate a massively peaked response, something that a simple opamp/equaliser can not do.
I'll try and dig out that part of the circuit if your interested. The rest I made "on the fly" so haven't got a circuit diagram. It detects audio on the phone lead inputs and power up by means of an optically isolated Triac to switch the mains supply. The detection part is ultra low power design with a nicad cell to power it.
The peaked response is the vital bit... right where it's needed at around 2khz although component choice can alter this if needed.
The essentials though were based on an idea in Electronics and Wireless World many years ago. It uses a tuned circuit, a coil and cap and resistor to generate a massively peaked response, something that a simple opamp/equaliser can not do.
I'll try and dig out that part of the circuit if your interested. The rest I made "on the fly" so haven't got a circuit diagram. It detects audio on the phone lead inputs and power up by means of an optically isolated Triac to switch the mains supply. The detection part is ultra low power design with a nicad cell to power it.
The peaked response is the vital bit... right where it's needed at around 2khz although component choice can alter this if needed.
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