Active WMTM 12" + 4.5" + ribbon tweeter

[adason]

Speakers are only one third of the overall experience. Its a trinity: signal source, amplification, and speakers.
If your signal source sucks, no matter how sophisticated your speakers are, you will hear what signal source offers.
If your amplification (pre, eq, amp) lacks musicality, even best signal source and best speakers will not sound good. You need all three.
The strength of the chain is determined by the weakest link.

 

[Dreg54]

Speakers are only one third of the overall experience. Its a trinity: signal source, amplification, and speakers.
If your signal source sucks, no matter how sophisticated your speakers are, you will hear what signal source offers.
If your amplification (pre, eq, amp) lacks musicality, even best signal source and best speakers will not sound good. You need all three.
The strength of the chain is determined by the weakest link.

On the one hand, I want to agree, on the other hand, you are talking about things that are difficult to measure. I trust the microphone more than my ears, and the microphone when replacing the amplifier at a price of x10 will show a distorion drop of 0.1% literally.
Of course, there are other parameters, such as LF driver control.
I am 99% sure that the acoustic treatment of the room will give 10 times the increase in sound quality than a new amplifier at the price of x10.
In fact, I have never heard amplifier more expensive than my ($120).

 

[adason]

Certain things can't be measured.
How do you messure which vine is best?
Even most sofisticated gass chromatography can not tell you how that particular vine will taste.
Only you can taste it and decide for yourself.
Does the nutritional analysis on the back of the box tell you how that food will taste?
Definitely no. Only you can taste and decide for yourself.
Nothing against measurements, i do measure a lot. To know is to measure. But to know what sounds best is only achieved by listening.
Distortion number measured in %thd has very little to do with musicality.
If you are not willing to explore amplifiers above what you have, fine.

 

[adason]

Just one last thing before i go away, being blamed for putting shades on lisa, i remember what steve deckert said when asked about the importance of speakers and amplifiers...loosly...he said he would be rather listening to bose speakers with sweet sounding tube amp, than the best speakers on planet driven by average solid state amp in todays stores...

 

[Dreg54]

Certain things can't be measured.
How do you messure which vine is best?
Even most sofisticated gass chromatography can not tell you how that particular vine will taste.
Only you can taste it and decide for yourself.
Does the nutritional analysis on the back of the box tell you how that food will taste?
Definitely no. Only you can taste and decide for yourself.
Nothing against measurements, i do measure a lot. To know is to measure. But to know what sounds best is only achieved by listening.
Distortion number measured in %thd has very little to do with musicality.
If you are not willing to explore amplifiers above what you have, fine.

By the way, a great example of the taste of food. It makes sense.
I don’t don’t want to explore new amplifiers, I don’t have the financial ability to do it now. Moreover, 1 out of 3 amplifiers I still have to return to my dad, this is his 😀

 

[Dreg54]

Can someone check my measurement? Did I do everything right? Since I have a 2nd filter order, the midrange of the driver is in antiphase, right?
Why is it that, judging by the measurements, there is no need to set a "delay" for the low-frequency driver, that is, the delay of the mid + high driver? The impulse is improved to a certain value, but any delay degrades the phase of the low-frequency driver. Or is the 30 degree phase increase not as important as the delay setting? Indeed, in fact, delay for MF + HF driver is necessary.
Looking at the measurements, in order to straighten the phase even more, I must, on the contrary, set the delay for the low-frequency driver

 

[Dreg54]

I set the "delay" for the bass driver. According to mathematical calculations, it turned out to be 0.5 ms. According to measurements, 0.6 ms is optimal. A delay above 0.6 ms starts to make changes in the pulse to 0 on the time axis.
It turns out:
LF 0 ms
MF 0.6 ms
HF 0.69 ms
Probably, the impulse is not the "fastest", but this is most likely due to the size of the 12" driver and the cheap amplifier

 

[Dreg54]

1. 1x Kartesian Wom120_vMS, in cabinet, 10 cm distance
2. 30 cm distance distortion, 0.2% average in the operating range (from 0.1% to 0.22% and one peak 0.34% at 853 Hz). I think it's a good result. With a more expensive amplifier and DAC, the result would be even less.

I must say that I have a feeling that I lack the sharpness of the voice in the music.
Unfortunately, I don't have any other speakers to compare with. When I finish the second cabinet, I'll take my old speakers from a friend to make a comparison, maybe it seems to me.
Probably, if I had the opportunity to do everything differently, I would make 3-4-way acoustics and put a dome speaker on the midrange, such as the new BlieSMa or Morel EM1308.

 

[Dreg54]

Distance 50 cm, 20 parametric EQ (peaking filters)
What do you think about so many parametric EQ's? I don't see any noticeable effect on phase or distortion

Can someone come in handy for setting through Equalizer APO:

Copy: L=L RL=L SL=L
Copy: R=R RR=R SR=R
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# LOW
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Channel: RL RR
Filter: ON LP Fc 250 Hz
Filter: ON PK Fc 70 Hz Gain -7 dB Q 7
Filter: ON PK Fc 100 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 1.9
Filter: ON PK Fc 110 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 150 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 219 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 7
Filter: ON PK Fc 215 Hz Gain -5 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 298 Hz Gain -6 dB Q 8
Filter: ON PK Fc 351 Hz Gain -15 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 464 Hz Gain -10 dB Q 6
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# MID
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Channel: L R
Filter: ON HP Fc 300 Hz
Filter: ON LP Fc 2200 Hz
Filter: ON PK Fc 7700 Hz Gain -15 dB Q 1.5
Filter: ON PK Fc 11250 Hz Gain -15 dB Q 2
Filter: ON PK Fc 240 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 5.1
Filter: ON PK Fc 310 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 9
Filter: ON PK Fc 420 Hz Gain -5 dB Q 7
Filter: ON PK Fc 540 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 600 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 1
Filter: ON PK Fc 970 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 1920 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 6
Delay: 0.4 ms
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# HIGH
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Channel: SL SR
Filter: ON HP Fc 2300 Hz
Filter: ON PK Fc 12000 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 1
Filter: ON PK Fc 8250 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 14275 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 4400 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 5
Delay: 0.49 ms
Channel: R
Filter: ON PK Fc 910 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 6

 

[Dreg54]

From the listening position, approximately 2,2-2,5 meters
(now bass turned down by 1 step on the amp)

 

[Dreg54]

Smoothing 1/12 everywhere. There is a little reflection from the table on the measurement

 

[Dreg54]

This is a closed box

 

[Dreg54]

In principle, everything works quite stably, I don’t hear any delays when watching a video, which is very pleasing.

 

[Jaypee]

Nice thread! Considering using Wom120_vMS as well. Are you happy with it? No regret?

What was the xover between your mid and tweeter?

I plan to add notch filter on the mid to tame HD3 and hoping to xover quite high (min 3.5Khz).