Hi All,
I am attempting to build full range ESL panels using louvers and stretchered wires similar to Acoustat panels and am trying to understand how the original panels were built and why.
I believe that older panels used stranded wires. There is a school of thought that at low frequencies stranded wires vibrate less than single core wires. On the other hand I was reading somewhere that in spectra series stranded wire was replaced with a single core wire. Is it correct?
9” X 48” panels were building blocks for full range flat spectra stators. It seems that it would be more economical to build wider 18x48” panels. I wander if the width of the panel was limited by its mechanical stability and wider panels would be prone to vibration and rattling?
Thank you for your input.
I am attempting to build full range ESL panels using louvers and stretchered wires similar to Acoustat panels and am trying to understand how the original panels were built and why.
I believe that older panels used stranded wires. There is a school of thought that at low frequencies stranded wires vibrate less than single core wires. On the other hand I was reading somewhere that in spectra series stranded wire was replaced with a single core wire. Is it correct?
9” X 48” panels were building blocks for full range flat spectra stators. It seems that it would be more economical to build wider 18x48” panels. I wander if the width of the panel was limited by its mechanical stability and wider panels would be prone to vibration and rattling?
Thank you for your input.
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Acoustat always used stranded wire for the stators in its panels - never solid. The only change in the wire was a move to very finely-stranded, oxygen-free copper, which was made fairly early in the company's history.
All Acoustat panels were either 8" wide or 9" wide, the vast majority being 9" wide. I'm sure other people could give you a better answer as to why you don't want to build panels much wider than 9". But I agree with your assumption that tension of the diaphragm and mechanical stability of the stator's supporting structure would be very difficult to control, and you'd end up with a lot of problems with vibration and rattling. Better to use two narrower panels that one very wide one.
Good luck with your project!
All Acoustat panels were either 8" wide or 9" wide, the vast majority being 9" wide. I'm sure other people could give you a better answer as to why you don't want to build panels much wider than 9". But I agree with your assumption that tension of the diaphragm and mechanical stability of the stator's supporting structure would be very difficult to control, and you'd end up with a lot of problems with vibration and rattling. Better to use two narrower panels that one very wide one.
Good luck with your project!
Thank you! I'm planning to build short (< 3ft )panels and can control diaphragm tension with vertical spacers but it will not help with the stator stability.
why do you want to build 3 ft wide panels? of all the Acoustat speakers out there the 0ne+0ne are the very best so far as stage and image go. The best panels I built had a diaphragm width of 7 inches they were better than my 0ne+0nes so far as stage and image went. If I were to build another set I would make the diaphragm 6 inches wide. My choice of louver would be 3/8" thick acrylic. Solid core stator wire Kynar sounds good 30 gage with somewhere between 25 - 30% open area. Panels with greater open area do not provide near enough diaphragm damping and you end up adding it anyway so why mot have greater static field coverage instead and gain twice?
About the 1+1s....my last Acoustat this year....were the 2+2...all stock...No c-mod....I have them now runing as 1+1s....just 2 panels in ea 2+2s....I must say what I am hearing vary good sound image an sound staging..takes me back over 25 years to my first pr of 1+1s ....
But I think this output.. has as much to do with the bass tran input tap...2 panels get the red tap....with the red tap ...theres more output of the 2 panels....an thay seems louder than 4 ran on the yello 4 panel tap....
Mindbending ... there as much sound output with 1+1...as are the 2+2s....must be canceling out of the side by side panels....
all just one mans finding.........moray good to see you...
But I think this output.. has as much to do with the bass tran input tap...2 panels get the red tap....with the red tap ...theres more output of the 2 panels....an thay seems louder than 4 ran on the yello 4 panel tap....
Mindbending ... there as much sound output with 1+1...as are the 2+2s....must be canceling out of the side by side panels....
all just one mans finding.........moray good to see you...
you too buddy love to read about what you are up too. Almost makes me want to build another set of stats. Still having fun with Karlson K-Tubes. Later moray james.
Remember the skinny panels Acoustat used to use when they built three panels across in parallel? I cant remember what width they were? Did you ever listen to a pair of those alone? They sounded good I had use of four of them for a while in a vertical 0ne+0ne knock up frame at work they belonged to Ed Meitner who I worked with at the time. Ed was very tight with Jim Strickland I suppose they still are friends. Even a four inch wide panel would be great and play plenty loud.
Remember the skinny panels Acoustat used to use when they built three panels across in parallel? I cant remember what width they were? Did you ever listen to a pair of those alone? They sounded good I had use of four of them for a while in a vertical 0ne+0ne knock up frame at work they belonged to Ed Meitner who I worked with at the time. Ed was very tight with Jim Strickland I suppose they still are friends. Even a four inch wide panel would be great and play plenty loud.
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I was planning to stuck up 2 18"X26" panels so I can cross them at 80Hz with subs. Do you mean 25-30% open area damps the resonance? I remember reading that you got 3 segments in your panels. With 7" your efficiency should be quite low unless you are crossing around 200Hz
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Unless you plan on Electrically segmenting them or even mechanically, 18" wide panels will be very very directional !!!
FWIW
jer 🙂
FWIW
jer 🙂
I'm planning to segment them. Here is the description of my design: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plan...-pvc-insulated-segmented-wire-stator-esl.html.
I just started playing with 3/8" louvers and rigidity of the panel is my major concern
Oh Okay, Cool !! 😀
Ya rigidity is a problem with that material, That is why I had switched to using TIG Rod for my Stator's.
jer 🙂
Ya rigidity is a problem with that material, That is why I had switched to using TIG Rod for my Stator's.
jer 🙂
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I remeber reading your post about louver wire stator vibration and tig rods but just got it. In the wire stator only the insulation keeps the stator from flexing since a metal wire can move inside the insulation jacket while the tig rod itself is glued to the louver. Gluing horizontal rods every 5 inch or so turns stator assembly into a super rigid structure. Its is difficult however to properly insulate the rods in the areas where they are attached to the louver.
I did not realize they also use louvers. No coloration here for sure but it would be very difficult to DIY something like that. I'm beginning to appreciate ladder structure more and more and your design with two vertical spacers - braces and short distanses between crossbars.
They only use louvers on models with PX stators, which I think they started using on their more expensive models about 10 years ago.
Their other models use larger gauge steel wires with insulation sleeves to span the large distances between spacers.
Earlier this year I built some panels with FR4 instead of the usual XXX phenolic I have been using.
They were noticeably stiffer, which might be useful for you if you plan to go full range and need larger distances between spacers required for low diaphragm resonance frequency.
Bolserst,
I've also thought about using FR4 for some future panels, but from what I've read it is difficult to cut and can be very unhealthy if dust particles become airborne. What technique did you use?
I've also thought about using FR4 for some future panels, but from what I've read it is difficult to cut and can be very unhealthy if dust particles become airborne. What technique did you use?
Thank you for this idea! It's a good one. I just checked some etched PCBs. Even 0.062” sheet is very stiff. It looks like its possible to use 0.092” sheet for horizontal strips and 0.187” for crossbars. Actually I would use 0.25” sheet and cut 0.187” slices since height of crsossbar is much more important than its thickness.
Its not really that difficult . You can cut it on a table saw with a plywood type blade set in reverse direction. Make sure you use a respirator and glasses.
Best way to cut FR4 is with a foot-driven shop shear (not easy to come up with one of those, though). But that results in no dust to worry about and very fast cutting.
I had the supplier cut a sheet into the strip widths I needed (3/8", 1/2", 1", etc). Savings on shipping cost helped offset cutting charge.
Then, all I had to do was snip pieces to length using a table saw with vacuum attachment.
I just use common off the shelf Spray paint primer (only red due to its high talc content and no Titanium Dioxide) and clear acrylic paints.
It is all documented here,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plan...tric-coatings-fact-fiction-2.html#post2893839
I would coat them before attaching them.
jer 🙂
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