Well i got the other tower built today so now i"m listening to bipole mltl stereo bliss. Sounds amazing. The little speakers do fill the room. I'm impressed with what $20 worth of ply and a couple afternoons have done for the tangbands.
Nice job Ryan. Do you have photos of the pair? Can you give more details of the listening impression?
Thanks
X
Thanks
X
Stochastic,
I'll take a look at your MLTL design and run it through the AMLTL design process. It will be big though as this is a big 8 incher.
X
I'll take a look at your MLTL design and run it through the AMLTL design process. It will be big though as this is a big 8 incher.
X
I posted an AMLTL solution for you on your thread. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/234547-help-me-model-folded-mltl.html#post3463639
I'll have to get my camera fired up again. I was too busy listening to them last night. I played every music under the sun through them.
I finally settled on their position off the wall. Theyre approx 1 foot off the front wall. Seemed to be the best place. Too close and the music seemed like it moved up the wall. Higher in the room. Too far away and it had an echo affect. Great for live stadium recordings i guess. haha
This is my first foray into bipoles and i am really enjoying it. Now the bad part....I have to take them all apart to get them sanded and stained.
X as i was listening.......I could only imagine what 4- 4" bamboo tangbands in an enclosure sound like!
I finally settled on their position off the wall. Theyre approx 1 foot off the front wall. Seemed to be the best place. Too close and the music seemed like it moved up the wall. Higher in the room. Too far away and it had an echo affect. Great for live stadium recordings i guess. haha
This is my first foray into bipoles and i am really enjoying it. Now the bad part....I have to take them all apart to get them sanded and stained.
X as i was listening.......I could only imagine what 4- 4" bamboo tangbands in an enclosure sound like!
Ryan,
So they still sound good with all the different types of music that you threw at them? A quad TB 4 inch bamboo bipole would sound really good but might be overkill for such nice drivers. These 3 in drivers are so tiny they look a little overwhelmed by the cabinet they are in. This may be a case where a nice 5 in wide x 8 in tall black grill cloth frame held in place with 4 magnets to cover the drivers and make them appear larger may help them not look so tiny (they sound big but look tiny). Only need it for the front though. I am glad that it is still working out, I guess they are keepers if you are going to sand and stain? How does the Mrs like the sound?
So they still sound good with all the different types of music that you threw at them? A quad TB 4 inch bamboo bipole would sound really good but might be overkill for such nice drivers. These 3 in drivers are so tiny they look a little overwhelmed by the cabinet they are in. This may be a case where a nice 5 in wide x 8 in tall black grill cloth frame held in place with 4 magnets to cover the drivers and make them appear larger may help them not look so tiny (they sound big but look tiny). Only need it for the front though. I am glad that it is still working out, I guess they are keepers if you are going to sand and stain? How does the Mrs like the sound?
Oh yes grill will be installed. I have a couple of the "old school" colors from parts express and some good ol' black grill cloth. Just working out a nice shape with the design dept (AKA the mrs.)
I'll get some pics up on my thread as soon as i get some built.
I'll get some pics up on my thread as soon as i get some built.
Visaton BG20 in MLTL ?
I am looking at the BG20 and it looks rather attractive in WinISD with low reaching bass into the 30 Hz range. I am considering making a AMLTL with it. Does anyone have listening impressions of this driver for its mid and high frequencies? Seems very cost effective for a 92 dB 8 inch class FR driver.
I am looking at the BG20 and it looks rather attractive in WinISD with low reaching bass into the 30 Hz range. I am considering making a AMLTL with it. Does anyone have listening impressions of this driver for its mid and high frequencies? Seems very cost effective for a 92 dB 8 inch class FR driver.
If building with foamcore, the B200 with its higher Qts, generally better response + higher efficiency seems the 'no brainer' choice if it doesn't cost a lot more.
GM
GM
The resulting enclosure may end-up being quite large looking at Qts and Vas. Reflex simulation seems to agree with this as well.
IG
IG,
There is no doubt this thing will be large looking, but how does it sound? I am now really interested in bipole configurations seeing how successful it was with the W3-881si that Ryan just built. I know, a bipole with BG20 will be a huge speaker...
Here is my initial AMLTL design for a bipole BG20 AMLTL:
163 liter volume tuned for 37 Hz - very smooth bass shelf.
12 in wide x 17 in deep x 48 in tall (not much bigger than a WIBAQ)
qnty 2 x 3.75 in dia x 4.65 in long ports near bottom.
Usual driver located at 1/3 down or 16 inches from top, stuffing top 32 in at up to 1 lb/cu ft.
WinISD says this will have 95 dB efficiency at 1 watt 1 meter. With bipole, no BSC is needed. If this driver can truly hit 17 kHz, that would be enough for me as I can't hear anything higher.
There is no doubt this thing will be large looking, but how does it sound? I am now really interested in bipole configurations seeing how successful it was with the W3-881si that Ryan just built. I know, a bipole with BG20 will be a huge speaker...
Here is my initial AMLTL design for a bipole BG20 AMLTL:
163 liter volume tuned for 37 Hz - very smooth bass shelf.
12 in wide x 17 in deep x 48 in tall (not much bigger than a WIBAQ)
qnty 2 x 3.75 in dia x 4.65 in long ports near bottom.
Usual driver located at 1/3 down or 16 inches from top, stuffing top 32 in at up to 1 lb/cu ft.
WinISD says this will have 95 dB efficiency at 1 watt 1 meter. With bipole, no BSC is needed. If this driver can truly hit 17 kHz, that would be enough for me as I can't hear anything higher.
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163L is pretty much the default WinISD reflex box, for a single driver; two of them in the same volume looks OK, not too much of a midbass hump yet, but not ideal for a small room IMO. Should be pretty punchy since the MLTL won't have a midbass through to fill in addition to the hump with two drivers. Better if that's not coincident with a room mode though. 🙂
BG20 might be good in the yet-to-be-built Karlsonator: http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/124/karlsonator.png
I have a pair of Peerless 8" nomex-cone drivers that I'm shooting ideas for, scrapped most of them except MLTL so far. I'll see where that takes me.
IG
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IG,
If I were to make the BG20 bipole MLTL they will go in the big recreation room 20 ft x 30 ft. I am wanting to give this a try with that thick isocyanurate sheathing insulation foam. Should keep it light weight. I can imagine if it were made if 3/4 in ply it would be a bear to move. Do you think 3/4 in thick foam can work if braced sufficiently?
Those peerless drivers you mention sound interesting, what model number is that?
The Karlsonator would be fun to try in thick foam with the BG20.
If I were to make the BG20 bipole MLTL they will go in the big recreation room 20 ft x 30 ft. I am wanting to give this a try with that thick isocyanurate sheathing insulation foam. Should keep it light weight. I can imagine if it were made if 3/4 in ply it would be a bear to move. Do you think 3/4 in thick foam can work if braced sufficiently?
Those peerless drivers you mention sound interesting, what model number is that?
The Karlsonator would be fun to try in thick foam with the BG20.
3/4 might be decent if braced to show indication of bass performance, but might be lots of work to do so.
The Peerless drivers are the 830869.
IG
Ryan,
That's funny... I never even thought about using hot melt on this 🙂 Construction adhesive from a big caulk gun was what I am thinking. Hot melt can probably be used to tack pieces together and then seal with the caulk gun. Not sure if I want to buy $110 in drivers I have no experience with. I haven't gotten any feedback from folks whether or not these BG20's have sufficient high frequency quality. Are you continuing to enjoy your bipole MLTL's? What's the best sounding albums on these speakers?
That's funny... I never even thought about using hot melt on this 🙂 Construction adhesive from a big caulk gun was what I am thinking. Hot melt can probably be used to tack pieces together and then seal with the caulk gun. Not sure if I want to buy $110 in drivers I have no experience with. I haven't gotten any feedback from folks whether or not these BG20's have sufficient high frequency quality. Are you continuing to enjoy your bipole MLTL's? What's the best sounding albums on these speakers?
Compact Wall-Mount MLTL Design
I am working on my latest design for a compact Vifa TC9FD wall-mount speaker designed using the AMLTL method. One of the requirements was that it be relatively flat. I decided to start with the TABAQ as a design basis and then modify it from there to suit the cabinet size and materials I have on hand. The TABAQ nominal design calls for a 20 square in CSA (4 in x 5 in typ) and a 30.7 in long line length with a 4 in x 0.75 in (2.5 square inch CSA) x 3.75 in long vent, of course with usual driver mounted at 1/3 from closed end and stuffing in first 2/3rds.
I have some wood-grain masonite (chip board) panel on hand that is 11.25 in wide so I made 2 baffles 17 in tall with top-centrally mounted driver so that the speaker can be used for either left or right channel. Being 17 in tall with a single fold, the line length is 34 in instead of 30.7 in. I decided to stick with the 20 sq in CSA and with 3/16 in foam core walls, the TL width is 5.33 in which specifies a 3.75 in depth. Using these dimensions for a 11.13 liter box tuned to 61 Hz, I end up with a circular 2.0 in dia x 4.18 in long vent. I have decided to put the vent downward firing.
The baffle is 1/4 in thick masonite and is the first time I have made a speaker baffle out of something other than foam core. The walls, back, and dividers will still be foam core.
I am working on my latest design for a compact Vifa TC9FD wall-mount speaker designed using the AMLTL method. One of the requirements was that it be relatively flat. I decided to start with the TABAQ as a design basis and then modify it from there to suit the cabinet size and materials I have on hand. The TABAQ nominal design calls for a 20 square in CSA (4 in x 5 in typ) and a 30.7 in long line length with a 4 in x 0.75 in (2.5 square inch CSA) x 3.75 in long vent, of course with usual driver mounted at 1/3 from closed end and stuffing in first 2/3rds.
I have some wood-grain masonite (chip board) panel on hand that is 11.25 in wide so I made 2 baffles 17 in tall with top-centrally mounted driver so that the speaker can be used for either left or right channel. Being 17 in tall with a single fold, the line length is 34 in instead of 30.7 in. I decided to stick with the 20 sq in CSA and with 3/16 in foam core walls, the TL width is 5.33 in which specifies a 3.75 in depth. Using these dimensions for a 11.13 liter box tuned to 61 Hz, I end up with a circular 2.0 in dia x 4.18 in long vent. I have decided to put the vent downward firing.
The baffle is 1/4 in thick masonite and is the first time I have made a speaker baffle out of something other than foam core. The walls, back, and dividers will still be foam core.
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Well X i think I found a start to a MLTL with a 6.5" Maybe 2 of the 4ohm in a bipole MLTL. This thread has good start. 60 inch line. I'll try and draw a box up tonight and I will let you critique if you graciously would.
I know I know in the long run it will have to turn into a 2way with a bit of tweeter help.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/227666-tl-silver-flute-6-5-a.html
I know I know in the long run it will have to turn into a 2way with a bit of tweeter help.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/227666-tl-silver-flute-6-5-a.html
Hmm, in theory, the vent terminus needs to be > 3*r from a parallel surface, so it will be interesting to see what it winds up being tuned at, especially since the cab's construction is somewhat lossy. Then again, tuning is so far below Fs, it may be a moot point.
GM