Hi ! watching some videos on Youtube about high priced small speakers in the comments often someone points out the fact that they use songs with limited frequency response i.e. little bass
for example, one asked why in the demos of small two-way speakers they never use songs like Bach's Toccata and Fugue, if anything, by raising the volume a bit
One answered because otherwise they destroy the speakers
I wonder first of all if this is possible
after all a speaker should be able to reproduce all the music at a decent level with good quality
Does this mean that these small speakers have strong intrinsic limitations ?
I saw a small monitor that costs as much as 100 kusd/pair
If someone puts Bach on and raises the volume, does he risk making it smoke ?
is it possible? if so they should warning the customers
for example, one asked why in the demos of small two-way speakers they never use songs like Bach's Toccata and Fugue, if anything, by raising the volume a bit
One answered because otherwise they destroy the speakers
I wonder first of all if this is possible
after all a speaker should be able to reproduce all the music at a decent level with good quality
Does this mean that these small speakers have strong intrinsic limitations ?
I saw a small monitor that costs as much as 100 kusd/pair
If someone puts Bach on and raises the volume, does he risk making it smoke ?
is it possible? if so they should warning the customers
Good morning and thank you very much for your valuable advice
so it is not true that playing a pipe organ track can break a small speaker ?
i cant imagine the face of a person who buys 100Kusd small monitors plays back a pipe organ tracks and smokes them
my main doubt is about IMD with small woofers at low Hz
I am reading about a 3 ways speaker where the midrange is driven without xover than there is a low pass on woofer and a high pass on tweeter
The sound is said to be extremely beautiful It is the Egglestoneworks Andra speaker and the speaker designer declares that the reason of great sound is in the absence of filters on the midrange
I like the concept a lot and i have no reason not to trust the reviewer who suggest the magazine to buy the speaker to use as a reference
My main concern is that without a low cut on the midrange playing tracks with high level low Hz signals the IMD of the midrange could become evident
All 3 ways have a low cut on the midrange afaik
Moreover i understand that some active studio monitor with small woofers have a low cut filters to cut out all frequencies below 80-100Hz
so it is not true that playing a pipe organ track can break a small speaker ?
i cant imagine the face of a person who buys 100Kusd small monitors plays back a pipe organ tracks and smokes them
my main doubt is about IMD with small woofers at low Hz
I am reading about a 3 ways speaker where the midrange is driven without xover than there is a low pass on woofer and a high pass on tweeter
The sound is said to be extremely beautiful It is the Egglestoneworks Andra speaker and the speaker designer declares that the reason of great sound is in the absence of filters on the midrange
I like the concept a lot and i have no reason not to trust the reviewer who suggest the magazine to buy the speaker to use as a reference
My main concern is that without a low cut on the midrange playing tracks with high level low Hz signals the IMD of the midrange could become evident
All 3 ways have a low cut on the midrange afaik
Moreover i understand that some active studio monitor with small woofers have a low cut filters to cut out all frequencies below 80-100Hz
i see but they tend to use where simple tracks like a singer and few instruments
however the reality kicks in when a real full range instrument like piano or pipe organ is played back
Small speaker start to show their actual limits very clearly The piano is small the organ is weak No pressure in the room It is not realistic
I spent many years listening to small 2 ways When i had the opportunity to listen to a more full range speaker i was shocked
I understood what i was missing A lot
Hi what do you mean precisely?
For instance Stereophile magazine divide the speakers in two classes
Full range and limited range
And they are right
A limited range speaker truly need a bass reinforcement always to sound realistic and so satisfying
For instance Stereophile magazine divide the speakers in two classes
Full range and limited range
And they are right
A limited range speaker truly need a bass reinforcement always to sound realistic and so satisfying
When auditioning or testing any speaker, I use music I actually listen to and with which I'm very familiar. No point in buying a speaker - of any size or type - which won't reproduce those tracks.
I've never 'destroyed' a speaker, but I have turned up the volume so much that the woofer runs out of puff and makes a 'thwack'; I've taken that as a sign that I'm over-doing things and turned it down before anything drastic happened.
Geoff
I've never 'destroyed' a speaker, but I have turned up the volume so much that the woofer runs out of puff and makes a 'thwack'; I've taken that as a sign that I'm over-doing things and turned it down before anything drastic happened.
Geoff
Hi thank you for the very valuable and obviously very sane advice
I think I understand the point
Demos at shows are like commercials
But the fact about small speakers i.e. with woofers smaller than 10 inch at least being limited remains
They have no chances to be satisfying in the long term
My rant is triggered by glowing reviews I see about micro speakers
Everything should be put in a context
I like baroque music but also pipe organ tracks
I need an universal speaker
Just last question
How is important to place an high pass filter on small size woofer
Like a 80-100Hz cut on a 5" woofer
I think that that could help to keep IMD low again with tracks load of low Hz content
I have a story
A friend has a nice pair of little towers with 4" woofers
He had the bad idea to put Jurassic park on the blue ray player
The formers came out of the gaps at the first bass blow
He managed to save the speakers
They should write this very clearly on the user's manual
How is important to place an high pass filter on small size woofer
Like a 80-100Hz cut on a 5" woofer
I think that that could help to keep IMD low again with tracks load of low Hz content
I have a story
A friend has a nice pair of little towers with 4" woofers
He had the bad idea to put Jurassic park on the blue ray player
The formers came out of the gaps at the first bass blow
He managed to save the speakers
They should write this very clearly on the user's manual
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Obviously I haven't heard these, but it appears like you can get pretty good bass from a small-ish speaker:
https://toidsdiyaudio.com/product/dinas-do-i-need-a-subwoofer-plans/
I haven't heard of putting a "cut" (i.e. filter) on a small woofer to limit low frequencies (doesn't mean it's not a thing) but this can be done through your amp by connecting a sub and choosing the crossover point. Sometimes, the enclosure itself can perform that function.
I have a pair of 4" two ways which let the driver run full range and I set the sub to 100 Hz. Even when I didn't have the sub, I never damaged the drivers - however, they simply didn't reproduce low frequencies. For most music that didn't matter, but when we got better speakers, the difference in what we could here was simply amazing.
Geoff
https://toidsdiyaudio.com/product/dinas-do-i-need-a-subwoofer-plans/
I haven't heard of putting a "cut" (i.e. filter) on a small woofer to limit low frequencies (doesn't mean it's not a thing) but this can be done through your amp by connecting a sub and choosing the crossover point. Sometimes, the enclosure itself can perform that function.
I have a pair of 4" two ways which let the driver run full range and I set the sub to 100 Hz. Even when I didn't have the sub, I never damaged the drivers - however, they simply didn't reproduce low frequencies. For most music that didn't matter, but when we got better speakers, the difference in what we could here was simply amazing.
Geoff
Listen to stuff you know well and always use that music to compare things. Otherwise you can't really compare two products properly if you've listened to different music with them.
You speak of excursion. This is a different limit to the thermal issue you spoke about.
Hi ! they look really serious it is difficult to understand the bass level obtainable without mentioning SPL Hz and distortion
SPL should be high while Hz and distortion should be as low as possible
I do not see measurements that back the claims
i did some tests in the past using an active crossover Introducing a 120Hz high pass filter the little monitors sounded more clear in the midrange
of course there was not low bass My guess is that taking away the lowest bass reduce IMD from the monitors
This is the reason why they use a high pass filter on the midrange in 3 ways speakers usually
Interesting thank you Did you try any tracks with very low bass like pipe organ music at realistic levels ?
then i wonder why in 3ways they use a high pass on the midrange They could just use it with a low pass to cross it with the tweeter
The woofer should only fill the bass range not covered by the midrange This is interesting I have to study it better
Hi thanks a lot Well who does not know Toccata and Fugue A speaker must be able to provide good SPLs with low distortion over the full spectrum
there is this fascination about small speakers producing a great bass for their size without explaining what great bass means
i think that small speakers can have a high waf That is the reason of their success and of divorces (joking here)
the level or realism that a big speaker can provide is on entire different scale
Those who have listened to these big speakers will never go back to shoe boxes like Rogers They are a joke of speakers
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yes you are right My point was that i can listen to music on HT speakers but it can be dangerous to playback movie soundtracks on small speakers
Which "Toccata and fugue" are you talking about? Bach has written several?
You are talking about organ music but probably not knowing much about organs themselves. An organ is build to a certain size limiting its largest pipes. About 99% of large organs have the largest pipe put at 16'. Which gives about 18Hz fundamental. Very hard to reproduce in normal living rooms as the wavelength is about 5 meters so you would need at least that free length in your room (organs are mostly tuned lower than 440Hz).
You are talking about organ music but probably not knowing much about organs themselves. An organ is build to a certain size limiting its largest pipes. About 99% of large organs have the largest pipe put at 16'. Which gives about 18Hz fundamental. Very hard to reproduce in normal living rooms as the wavelength is about 5 meters so you would need at least that free length in your room (organs are mostly tuned lower than 440Hz).
When I bought the 4" two ways about 30 years ago, for some unknown reason I was more concerned with mids and highs than deep bass. Maybe a case of don't know what I was missing. I also had a much smaller listening room.
My very basic understanding of the mid range XO in a 3 way speaker is that it needs to filter out highs and lows and leave those to the tweeter and woofer, therefore you need high and low pass crossover components in the mid circuit. This will of course depend on the drivers' characteristics etc.
I've heard 'small' speakers which sound very good and 'big' speakers which sound thin and unpleasant. I haven't heard these but Paul's write up suggests they have great bass, from a 5" woofer:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/carrera
Geoff
My very basic understanding of the mid range XO in a 3 way speaker is that it needs to filter out highs and lows and leave those to the tweeter and woofer, therefore you need high and low pass crossover components in the mid circuit. This will of course depend on the drivers' characteristics etc.
I've heard 'small' speakers which sound very good and 'big' speakers which sound thin and unpleasant. I haven't heard these but Paul's write up suggests they have great bass, from a 5" woofer:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/carrera
Geoff
To my thinking, this is a contradiction in terms - an oxymoron, even!
Note that we never say: huge tweeters...
"They" should also put a sticker on your dashboard saying "don't drive into the lake".
