We are not steering you away from diy, but rather confronting you with the consequences of your plans.
There are no quick gains: for starters, simple XSim on-axis-only designs are not going to cut it, expensive drivers or not. It is in the design, including off axis measurements, not in expensive components as many seems to think on this site.
There are no quick gains: for starters, simple XSim on-axis-only designs are not going to cut it, expensive drivers or not. It is in the design, including off axis measurements, not in expensive components as many seems to think on this site.
This is not an expensive build, that is the goal. And i do read all the comments and think about it. But some here just say don't even try and build a kit or just tread your room acousticly and buy a monitor. What kind of constructive comment is that?
I know i need to look at off axis response, but for that i first need to measure them. I'm not in that stage yet. I'm in the stage that i got the drivers (actually ordered for an other plan that fell trough) and made a cabinet design that is even not final yet. That xsim simulation is a first test, not the final crossover. I's just an exercise to check driver compability and what kind of crossover could work, and it's done on published specs and not on measuremts of the drivers in the box. So...
I know i need to look at off axis response, but for that i first need to measure them. I'm not in that stage yet. I'm in the stage that i got the drivers (actually ordered for an other plan that fell trough) and made a cabinet design that is even not final yet. That xsim simulation is a first test, not the final crossover. I's just an exercise to check driver compability and what kind of crossover could work, and it's done on published specs and not on measuremts of the drivers in the box. So...
I thought your goal is better music production environment at home. I always want to build a nice budget small monitor myself, and I'm not confronting your plan.
ok, i tried to design an adaptor to mount the SB26ADC to a Visaton WG148 waveguide. This could work for this speaker. Anyone got remarks on this adaptor?
The plan is to let it print it, would PLA be good for that?
The plan is to let it print it, would PLA be good for that?
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I would learn the simple method of routing irregular shapes and use one of my waveguides. You'll be happier with the performance.
Tutorial: How to flush-mount irregular shaped speakers : diyaudio
Tutorial: How to flush-mount irregular shaped speakers : diyaudio
No, but that won't do much, the thin mdf wall cabinet is resonating all over the place and no eq can solve that...
I did repair that Yamaha HS80 a while ago (actually just reconnect a plug that came loose on the tweeter) and did see the inside, and it's 12mm mdf of bad quality, no bracing, just some lining with white fluffy stuff. The amp is also open in the cabinet and the back is not totally sealed (many screwholes and so). The port is ok, but mounted on the amp board. the amp itself is a more or less OK LM3886 amp with a relative beefy regulated linear psu. I don't know about the dsp or analog filter (i don't know what it is) but it's a circuit board with a lot of small ic's i don't know.
But it's mainly the cabinet that is so basic bad build, that it's resonance make the monitor sound very honkey and distorted, even on low level. If you would rebuild the cabinet in decent wood (even decent quality 18mm mdf), add bracing and so it probally would be quiet decent sounding, but i won't bother (it's not mine). I mostly switch that monitor of and only use the Genelec's that are in the same room. I'm not the kind of dj that want party levels in the radiostudio (that's why the Yamaha's were put there). I just need to hear myself.
How disapointing it is from Yamaha.
I would have hoped something more serious given what you described is basically the same that the Alesis active monitor1 mk2 ( circa 2002) i use for dj purpose too ( the same up to the filterboard and lm3886!).
I hope they don't use smps supply in Hs80 as the one in the Alesis lasted maybe 10years ( which is not so bad for an smps... but still). Had to rebuilt a linear one for both.
Given the difference in asking price it is a kind of theft in my view ( the pair of Alesis was something like 300euros new at a clearance sale iirc).
Really i think you've got a good plan as there is not so much 'small' budget studio monitor in recent diy offer ( in my view).
Your adapting plate look good to me but i don't have your tweeter to check.
Augerpro's method he pointed is the same i thought and linked a YT video explaining it.
At this point i would check for both options (relative to cost) and follow the one which seems to have the best performance/cost ratio.
The monacor WG300 may be an alternative to the visaton and with Markbakk link to zaph method it has to be considered too.
Maybe it is a paradigm shift from your initial idea but worth it ( it'll help mitigate roundover concerns too).
Let's see how it will evolve! It's promising.
I would have hoped something more serious given what you described is basically the same that the Alesis active monitor1 mk2 ( circa 2002) i use for dj purpose too ( the same up to the filterboard and lm3886!).
I hope they don't use smps supply in Hs80 as the one in the Alesis lasted maybe 10years ( which is not so bad for an smps... but still). Had to rebuilt a linear one for both.
Given the difference in asking price it is a kind of theft in my view ( the pair of Alesis was something like 300euros new at a clearance sale iirc).
Really i think you've got a good plan as there is not so much 'small' budget studio monitor in recent diy offer ( in my view).
Your adapting plate look good to me but i don't have your tweeter to check.
Augerpro's method he pointed is the same i thought and linked a YT video explaining it.
At this point i would check for both options (relative to cost) and follow the one which seems to have the best performance/cost ratio.
The monacor WG300 may be an alternative to the visaton and with Markbakk link to zaph method it has to be considered too.
Maybe it is a paradigm shift from your initial idea but worth it ( it'll help mitigate roundover concerns too).
Let's see how it will evolve! It's promising.
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I first need to get better with regular routing before i can try this method, but i could maybe use some cnc service, so do you have cad files of the hole that needs to be cut and more important, do you want to share them? It's the 6" SB26 one i need to be able to do that. They ask for a cad file of it, not a regular drawing. .stp format would be perfect. It seems that i can't take it out of the stl file you share as it's locked.
If you go with a waveguide, I strongly recommend the Augerpro designs. They have been vetted over and over again by many DIY'ers on this site.
I collaborated with a friend a few years ago, and he used a technique to "recess" his drivers: He flush mounted them to the main baffle, then used a 1/4" thick fiber board overlay. He used a scroll saw to cut the outline of each driver. The woofer had that non-round semi-hexagon profile that drives everyone nuts. Then he glued the overlay down, and shazam ! it appeard that he perfectly recessed the drivers.
j.
I collaborated with a friend a few years ago, and he used a technique to "recess" his drivers: He flush mounted them to the main baffle, then used a 1/4" thick fiber board overlay. He used a scroll saw to cut the outline of each driver. The woofer had that non-round semi-hexagon profile that drives everyone nuts. Then he glued the overlay down, and shazam ! it appeard that he perfectly recessed the drivers.
j.
Measuring in box is obviously best but you can go a long way to see how your proposed concept will work by using the enclosure and diffraction tools in Vituix to create off axis responses of either a traced on axis or simulated driver of the same Sd. The waveguide is different and needs another type of simulation.
This video and some others from kimmo might help explain better
Creating off-axis responses with VituixCAD Diffraction tool - YouTube
Be careful with this as CNC will be very accurate and 3D printing has bigger tolerances and not every machine and filament will come out exactly the same. I would get the waveguide and measure it before CNC'ing so you don't get a nasty surprise if the there is a lip, gap or it doesn't quite want to go in.
Visaton WG300 works very well with RS28F (and RS28A or RST28A/F).
Paired with a 6.5in woofer it’s a great combo. I did it with Purifi and crossed at 3.5kHz.
Paired with a 6.5in woofer it’s a great combo. I did it with Purifi and crossed at 3.5kHz.
Well as the visaton is the easiest to get here, i'm working on a scenario with the visaton and a mounting bracket to mount the SB26ADC on the visaton.
But it's not decided yet what i will do. Some more thinking and investigating is going on. The Augerpro waveguide seems to be difficult to implement with the tools i have at the moment, but still could be an option if i find a solution for that. But routing it like he said, i have to be realistic, is not an option for me as i don't have the skills for that yet. I only recently got a router and went from cnc shops to cut my wood to try to route my own round speaker holes and even that is still a challenge for me. I'm not a trained woodworker at all.
But it's not decided yet what i will do. Some more thinking and investigating is going on. The Augerpro waveguide seems to be difficult to implement with the tools i have at the moment, but still could be an option if i find a solution for that. But routing it like he said, i have to be realistic, is not an option for me as i don't have the skills for that yet. I only recently got a router and went from cnc shops to cut my wood to try to route my own round speaker holes and even that is still a challenge for me. I'm not a trained woodworker at all.
And once again, I am not convinced you need a waveguide.
If you are sitting in a fixed position, 0.5 m from the speakers, you are mostly immersed in the direct sound. A waveguide helps limit the dispersion of the tweeter at lower frequencies so that the woofer and tweeter are similar... this makes it easier to get a smooth on-axis response AND and smooth sound power response... which in turn helps ensure that the early reflections (ER) are smooth and even.
In your case, your head is 0.5 m from the speakers, and 1.75 m from the side walls, and 3 m from the rear wall. The ER is a lot less important in your situation than in more typical listening rooms. Your listening position may not be the classic definition of near field, but it is very nearly so. You may benefit from a pad of absorptive material on the desk in front of each speaker (I do this with my workbench speakers).
Of course a waveguide can always help, but this must be balanced with the added complication and cost. With your construction capability, your whole project may be at risk if you try to incorporate a waveguide.
j.
If you are sitting in a fixed position, 0.5 m from the speakers, you are mostly immersed in the direct sound. A waveguide helps limit the dispersion of the tweeter at lower frequencies so that the woofer and tweeter are similar... this makes it easier to get a smooth on-axis response AND and smooth sound power response... which in turn helps ensure that the early reflections (ER) are smooth and even.
In your case, your head is 0.5 m from the speakers, and 1.75 m from the side walls, and 3 m from the rear wall. The ER is a lot less important in your situation than in more typical listening rooms. Your listening position may not be the classic definition of near field, but it is very nearly so. You may benefit from a pad of absorptive material on the desk in front of each speaker (I do this with my workbench speakers).
Of course a waveguide can always help, but this must be balanced with the added complication and cost. With your construction capability, your whole project may be at risk if you try to incorporate a waveguide.
j.
And the more you will suffer from the comb filter effect caused by interference between direct sound and reflection from front wall. Plus that from the reflection from your desk. all in all the speakers aren’t the weakest link here. Be sure to have a good pair of cans for reference.
The waveguide gives the perfect physical setback to implement a time aligned crossover easily.
My mistake - it is Monacor WG300.
I was able to implement a passive Harsch XO with the WG300.
Here is step response:
My mistake - it is Monacor WG300.
I was able to implement a passive Harsch XO with the WG300.
Here is step response:
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Wel, that WG300 waveguide is out of stock everywhere here in Europe and got a lead time of about half a year now said several shops to me today when i contacted them yesterday.
The Visaton waveguide is availeble in most shops.