I think the new rectangular voice coil is probably what gives this driver the "magic" the other MA drivers simply do not have. The transient response is remarkable but the overall musical qualities are also quite special. The A7MS gave me listener fatigue; I found it irritating for long listening sessions. The A7P has issues in the top octaves; ringing, harshness, etc. which I filtered out with a LP, 2nd order. The P7PHD has NONE of these negative issues; it is extremely accurate, articulate, neutral, natural, "musical", etc.
I listen to a lot of acoustic jazz and Baroque era chamber music but these things can also rock out and do justice to a full Mahler Symphony as well (within reason of course). I truly think it is one of the best sounding drivers available...PERIOD!...Cheers!
[p.s.; don't be afraid to try a super-tweeter; when implemented properly; there is additional magic in the top 2 octaves. I need it because of my advanced age but you may not want or need one.]
Best of luck; let us know later on your project...
Dave, see my p.s. on the reply. I can tell by listening from another room even that the T90A matches the P7PHD "perfectly" (for MY listening preferences). What I mean by this is that without the super tweeter; the music isn't complete. I can switch it in and out (ST on amp speaker switch "A" and FR on amp speaker switch "B"). I can do either by themselves or "A" + "B" for both. I fully understand the picket fence/lobing effect but consider that VERY MINOR as compared to the many other variables we deal with as our "chosen" compromises.
As you said; that is one of the beauties of DIY.
Cheers!
All i can say is that the physics says that given the significantly larger than 1.4 wavelength separation of tweeter & FR that the peaks & dips caused by the separation of the drivers will be different depending on where you are listening/measuring them. I have clearly heard this and Danny Ritchie has demonstarted the issue with measurements.
Every loudspeaker is a compromise, and adding a $215 tweeter to a $50 FR is a decided budget compromise (not to mention the cost of an XO).
Turns a $200 project into a $700 project.
But whatever works for the individual user is the right way to go and i am glad you enjoy your loudspeakers.
(Fostex T90A Top Mount Horn Super Tweeter)
(Markaudio Pluvia Seven PHD 4" Paper Cone Full Range)
dave
Every loudspeaker is a compromise, and adding a $215 tweeter to a $50 FR is a decided budget compromise (not to mention the cost of an XO).
Turns a $200 project into a $700 project.
But whatever works for the individual user is the right way to go and i am glad you enjoy your loudspeakers.
(Fostex T90A Top Mount Horn Super Tweeter)
(Markaudio Pluvia Seven PHD 4" Paper Cone Full Range)
dave
I don't disagree at all; I can also hear these effects even though anything much above 10KHz is severely attenuated for me. But, for MY tastes; I much prefer having the super tweeter; it all comes down to personal preference obviously. BTW, I bought the T90A's for another project with much more expensive drivers; I would normally never match a $50 driver with a $200 driver. Having said that; I like the sound quality of the P7PHD much more than many more expensive drivers; even those costing $$hundreds$$. As we already discussed; price doesn't necessarily indicate high quality or high fidelity.
Again; I think the P7PHD does EVERYTHING very well and I have ZERO complaints; I would happily pay $200 each for these as I think that they are just THAT GOOD. Now; one day, I would like to try the MAOP 7. Out of range of my current budget. The MA site does mention the rectangular VC as being used on some MAOP models; the way I read it; ONLY the P7PHD also has that VC; no other MA drivers do. Again; I think this is the biggest reason these things sound sound good.
With or without a tweeter; the P7PHD is currently my favorite driver regardless of cost and I think it is very hard to beat; highly recommended by this "old speaker guy"...
Again; I think the P7PHD does EVERYTHING very well and I have ZERO complaints; I would happily pay $200 each for these as I think that they are just THAT GOOD. Now; one day, I would like to try the MAOP 7. Out of range of my current budget. The MA site does mention the rectangular VC as being used on some MAOP models; the way I read it; ONLY the P7PHD also has that VC; no other MA drivers do. Again; I think this is the biggest reason these things sound sound good.
With or without a tweeter; the P7PHD is currently my favorite driver regardless of cost and I think it is very hard to beat; highly recommended by this "old speaker guy"...
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It seems like I've been guilty of conflating two distinct terms. So, to be clear, there are full-range drivers, and there are single-driver speakers. I guess I have a habit of thinking of full-range drivers as typically being used for single-driver speakers. Anyway, what I intend to build are a pair of single-driver speakers each employing one full-range driver.
I think I'll just buy a pair of 7.3's and a pair of P7PHD's, and return the ones that I'm not happy with. That seems to be the easiest solution!
Thanks,
David
I think I'll just buy a pair of 7.3's and a pair of P7PHD's, and return the ones that I'm not happy with. That seems to be the easiest solution!
Thanks,
David
I have a pair of those. Made of unobtainium, When Chris had them he was very protective of them and i only had one comparison session. They go head-to-head with Alpair 7.3eN.
I do know that it is the only difference between A5.2 and A5.3, supposedly smooths out the top end, but by the time i am finished improvin gthse drivers there is little or no differnce which leads me to the idea that it is a necessary marketing move to sell drivers into Japan (MA’s largest market).
My favorite driver depends on the application. Currently, ignoring that teh A7.3eN, which are the midTweeters in the big WAWs i am currently listening to.
dave
Each needs some 100+ hours of breakin before you can properly evaluate them. Don’t decide too quickly.
dave
ditto on the break in period, 100+ hours. AND; keep the bass level WAY down as well as the overall power level until 100+ hours.
The mark Audio website shows a 5.4 ohm rating for the 7.3, and a 3.5 ohm rating for the PHD. That seems pretty low for amp.
That is DCR not impedance. A7.3 is nominal 8Ω, CHP nominal 4Ω. Some AV amps are specced minim 6Ω but this is when using all the channels.
More important than the R is the phase angle and this is usually fairly benign in a FR driver.
What is your amp?
dave
More important than the R is the phase angle and this is usually fairly benign in a FR driver.
What is your amp?
dave
Oh, that's the voice coil dc resistance. Ok.
The amp I just built is an EL34 SET triode (Tubelab SSE). the OPT's I'm using are Edcor GXSE15's with 8 ohm secondaries.
Thanks.
The amp I just built is an EL34 SET triode (Tubelab SSE). the OPT's I'm using are Edcor GXSE15's with 8 ohm secondaries.
Thanks.
I tried to copy and paste but it didn't work. I use the impedance curves rather than the stated impedance. It varies with frequency and also depends on the box type what happens; especially in the bass region. The Pluvia 7PHD for example is really closer to about 5 Ohms from 200 Hz to 2KHz then begins a very slow rise above that. Among other things; this is an indication that the VC inductance is quite low; a GOOD thing!
If you have taps on a vacuum tube amp; I would choose the 4 Ohm tap for the P7PHD.
That makes a difference. For optimum matching you want nominal 8Ω but it is important that the real impedance curve does not really resemble that, expecially as the bass resonance is approached.
dave
"You introduce memory into the spiders"??? That's a new one to me?...Unless you have audible documented proof of this phenomenon....this is how myths, suppositions & general errors are introduced into our endeavours.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick........
Richard,
Words from the spider designer himself.
And pretty obvious if you think about it. A spider is a piece of fabric pressed into a set of convoluted concentric rings treated with a lzquer-like compund to seal it and such that it sets the stiffness of the spider (after break-in). The spider will have its own resonances and “FR". If you hit it with a big signal at predominantly single frequency before it has broken in then the coating will breal in such a manner that further break-in is unable to create the desired target at the end of break-in. A memory of that big hit. Perhaps not as big a deal with drivers with limited range, but with any well designed FR will affect its performance.
A couple comments that describe the proper break-in process way better than i could come up with.
Mark Fenlon :
Scott Lindgren:
dave
Words from the spider designer himself.
And pretty obvious if you think about it. A spider is a piece of fabric pressed into a set of convoluted concentric rings treated with a lzquer-like compund to seal it and such that it sets the stiffness of the spider (after break-in). The spider will have its own resonances and “FR". If you hit it with a big signal at predominantly single frequency before it has broken in then the coating will breal in such a manner that further break-in is unable to create the desired target at the end of break-in. A memory of that big hit. Perhaps not as big a deal with drivers with limited range, but with any well designed FR will affect its performance.
A couple comments that describe the proper break-in process way better than i could come up with.
Mark Fenlon :
Scott Lindgren:
dave
I'm not going to even bother with this one...so many words, so little of substance to say...the snake-oil is running like water. Of course, if a spider X-max is exceeded it is in a failed condition.
---------------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........
---------------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........
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I still haven't committed to a new cabinet design! So many routes one can take.
Out of the blue, I remembered an old friend in North Carolina who had built a pair of Jericho Horns. I always wondered if they were scalable for 4" driver use. Looking at other horns like the BK-12m's that Madisound sells, made me think they could even be simplified a bit?
Out of the blue, I remembered an old friend in North Carolina who had built a pair of Jericho Horns. I always wondered if they were scalable for 4" driver use. Looking at other horns like the BK-12m's that Madisound sells, made me think they could even be simplified a bit?
