Hello all,
I just finished building a Tubelab SSE amp (about 6 - 8 watts). It's truly amazing. I'm currently using my 20-year old Buschhorn MkII's with equally old Fostex FE108∑'s. I've always loved these drivers/horns and they still sound great, especially with the SSE.
But, ... I've got the urge to build something new, and I've settled on the Frugel-Horn Mk 3's. However, I probably won't get around to building any cabinets for a few months.
So, my question is: if I go ahead and buy the drivers for the FH3's now - either the Fostex FE126NV's, or the Alpair 7's - will they work ok in my Buschhorns until I get around to building FH3's? I'm leaning towards the FE126NV's due to their efficiency. I figure I can at least get them broken in good in advance, and ready for the FH3's.
Thanks!
David
I just finished building a Tubelab SSE amp (about 6 - 8 watts). It's truly amazing. I'm currently using my 20-year old Buschhorn MkII's with equally old Fostex FE108∑'s. I've always loved these drivers/horns and they still sound great, especially with the SSE.
But, ... I've got the urge to build something new, and I've settled on the Frugel-Horn Mk 3's. However, I probably won't get around to building any cabinets for a few months.
So, my question is: if I go ahead and buy the drivers for the FH3's now - either the Fostex FE126NV's, or the Alpair 7's - will they work ok in my Buschhorns until I get around to building FH3's? I'm leaning towards the FE126NV's due to their efficiency. I figure I can at least get them broken in good in advance, and ready for the FH3's.
Thanks!
David
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IME, don't bother with the Fostex FE126s. The breakup past 5kHz or so means they really shouldn't be run wide-open.
If it's the way you want to go, I'd consider EQ (whether in the form of speaker-level notch filters or DSP) to be mandatory.
My experience with the Alpair drivers has been much more positive.
Chris
If it's the way you want to go, I'd consider EQ (whether in the form of speaker-level notch filters or DSP) to be mandatory.
My experience with the Alpair drivers has been much more positive.
Chris
Thanks chris661.
Unless I'm missing one, it looks like the Alpair 7P is Mark Audio's most efficient 4" driver, having an Spl of 87.5db.
I guess that could be acceptable. I play music at lower volumes, anyway.
Thanks!
Unless I'm missing one, it looks like the Alpair 7P is Mark Audio's most efficient 4" driver, having an Spl of 87.5db.
I guess that could be acceptable. I play music at lower volumes, anyway.
Thanks!
FE126 magnet dia. is 100mm. Cutout for driver in Buschhorn MkII is shown as 93mm. That would suggest to me that they won't fit.😀
Alpair 7.3 is going to be tough to beat, unless you really like the sound of the Fostex.
jeff
FF105WK looks pretty good. The only Fostex I'd consider.
Either that or the Alpair7P look to be the best high sensitivity options I've come across at a affordable price.
Either that or the Alpair7P look to be the best high sensitivity options I've come across at a affordable price.
The A7.3 is currently considered the best driver for the FH3. It is less efficient, but will allow for much better bass, so not as many issues with room placement and likely give greater satisfaction.
The A7p has some issues that make it less well liked. The new P7HD and the A7ms ar estill too new to make a call on them. Despite expectations that the P7PHD is voiced for the Japanese (ie wonky FR) the last couple comment son it have been positive. It is likely a development on the A7p as the P7HD is purported to be a development on the A7.3. I have them all but have not had an opportunity to listen to them.
The FF105wk is better, IMO, than FE126 (haven’t heard the new one and have yet to see anyone with experience) and the FF125wk.
How loud you like to listen plays a huge role. I used the 5w ACAs on our big MTMs which, given the same A7.3eN as we have in FH3, the passive XO and the 4Ω A12pWeN make for a more difficult load. Those amps staye din my system for way longer than most amps (only moving aside for a pair of the new ACAs, and then the SIT-3). My room is quite large (also a factor) and the only time i ran low on juice was when i wanted to reall crank it (rarely).
The A7.3 is pretty near the same sensitivity as teh FE108∑ so if tou are pleased with the level syou get with it you should be fine.
Do note that the BH2 does not go very low. The A7.3 will work in it, but not be optimum. FH3 is a much better box.
dave
The A7p has some issues that make it less well liked. The new P7HD and the A7ms ar estill too new to make a call on them. Despite expectations that the P7PHD is voiced for the Japanese (ie wonky FR) the last couple comment son it have been positive. It is likely a development on the A7p as the P7HD is purported to be a development on the A7.3. I have them all but have not had an opportunity to listen to them.
The FF105wk is better, IMO, than FE126 (haven’t heard the new one and have yet to see anyone with experience) and the FF125wk.
How loud you like to listen plays a huge role. I used the 5w ACAs on our big MTMs which, given the same A7.3eN as we have in FH3, the passive XO and the 4Ω A12pWeN make for a more difficult load. Those amps staye din my system for way longer than most amps (only moving aside for a pair of the new ACAs, and then the SIT-3). My room is quite large (also a factor) and the only time i ran low on juice was when i wanted to reall crank it (rarely).
The A7.3 is pretty near the same sensitivity as teh FE108∑ so if tou are pleased with the level syou get with it you should be fine.
Do note that the BH2 does not go very low. The A7.3 will work in it, but not be optimum. FH3 is a much better box.
dave
Well, the first watt's the loudest.
All subsequent watts get you +3dB per doubling of power.
I'd recommend using an SPL meter (even the one built into the average smart phone is okay) to figure out how loud you actually need it to be.
Most of the time, I'm listening around 60dB, which means I'm somewhere around milli-watt levels.
However, if I want to crank it up and enjoy some Bon Jovi, I need around 100w/ch (I have the luxury of some very nice amplifiers with peak voltage readouts, so I used one of those to calibrate). My Cambridge CXA80 does the job.
Chris
Thank you for the in-depth reply Dave!
The A7.3 sounds like the driver to go with. I mainly listen at lower volumes in a relatively small room. And, most of the music I listen to these days is not heavily amplified stuff to begin with (acoustic jazz, etc.).
Dave, do you offer this driver through your website? I have visited it in the past; I know you do a special treatment to the cones. I'll read up on that.
I figured the Alpairs would not be ideal in the BH2s and I'm fine with that, since it will be a temporary setup until I can build a pair of FH3s. I never got a lot of bass with my 108 Sigmas in the BH2's, either, and wall proximity is very critical with them.
What is paramount is that I like simplicity. I do not use a preamp, or any kind of eq: DAC straight into my Tubelab SSE (which does have a volume pot). I also use a turntable (but, I do need to build a new pre for that). Point is, I have loved the sound of single, small, full-range drivers in horns driven by tube amps since I first heard them a long time ago.
Thanks again for your help!
Chris, thanks. I agree with you about the 1st watt. It's maybe the main reason I like low-powered tube amps so much.
The A7.3 sounds like the driver to go with. I mainly listen at lower volumes in a relatively small room. And, most of the music I listen to these days is not heavily amplified stuff to begin with (acoustic jazz, etc.).
Dave, do you offer this driver through your website? I have visited it in the past; I know you do a special treatment to the cones. I'll read up on that.
I figured the Alpairs would not be ideal in the BH2s and I'm fine with that, since it will be a temporary setup until I can build a pair of FH3s. I never got a lot of bass with my 108 Sigmas in the BH2's, either, and wall proximity is very critical with them.
What is paramount is that I like simplicity. I do not use a preamp, or any kind of eq: DAC straight into my Tubelab SSE (which does have a volume pot). I also use a turntable (but, I do need to build a new pre for that). Point is, I have loved the sound of single, small, full-range drivers in horns driven by tube amps since I first heard them a long time ago.
Thanks again for your help!
Chris, thanks. I agree with you about the 1st watt. It's maybe the main reason I like low-powered tube amps so much.
I do sell EnABLed A7.3eN, but currently have no matched pairs done up. I am also moving out of doing any but those that are sent to me, so i can put together closer matched stock pairs. But unless Madisound is out, there is little point in shipping them back to the US.
Contact me via email if you wish to explore this further.
dave
Contact me via email if you wish to explore this further.
dave
Sounds good. Looks like Madisound has them. Just to be sure, this is the 7.3, correct?
Markaudio Alpair-7-Gen3 Grey Cone 4" Full Range
Markaudio Alpair-7-Gen3 Grey Cone 4" Full Range
It is another example of a not so great Olson/Nagaoka-style horn. Gemme made a swoopy MDF version (degradin gperformance & pushing the price way up).
FH3 & Aiko are much better. There is also the Lancet, a simplier, ML-Voigt that is quite good (Woden Paid planset).
dave
FH3 & Aiko are much better. There is also the Lancet, a simplier, ML-Voigt that is quite good (Woden Paid planset).
dave
Thanks Dave.
I guess there's no one in the US selling FH3 flatpacks anymore.
I have the woodworking skills, I just don't have the power tools needed to cut a kit, and do it right.
I guess there's no one in the US selling FH3 flatpacks anymore.
I have the woodworking skills, I just don't have the power tools needed to cut a kit, and do it right.
Bob Berner (PA?). The current plague has shttered his shop but once it lifts he has a bunch of people waiting for flat-paks. Similar quality & price to ours, less shipping.
dave
dave
Wow, thanks!
I got his email by searching his name here at diyaudio. I'll let him know I'm interested in a kit. But, as I said, I was planning on building them a few months down the road, anyway, so maybe he'll be up and running again by that time.
I appreciate all your help Dave.
I got his email by searching his name here at diyaudio. I'll let him know I'm interested in a kit. But, as I said, I was planning on building them a few months down the road, anyway, so maybe he'll be up and running again by that time.
I appreciate all your help Dave.
They are? No sign of the FExx8ESigma range being discontinued on the Fostex International site, or Madisound. Granted, the ESigma range is getting on a bit now, so I'd expect them to be updated at some point, but I've seen no evidence of it yet. Any links to that effect?
Re the horn, it's one of the better Fostex offerings of that time (certainly better than the ghastly contemporary design for the FE126E, later recycled for its FE126En successor, and now mercifully retired for the new FExx6NV series units). Not great, could be worse, better options out there, frankly.