A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in Full Range Drivers

[vinylkid58]

I had to search this thread to figure out why I'm following it.

jeff

 

[xrk971]

Cal,
What kind of sound were you expecting from a 85dB driver in a sealed box? They are flat response to be sure but the baffle step will cause them to not have any bass below 200hz and 5dB falloff from 900hz to 200Hz. If you EQ the baffle step back and give them bass support then it will sound better. If you want them to sound good with bass build a 0.40x Karlsonator or at least a BR or MLTL to get some bass down to 55Hz. Why the JVC sounds better? My guess is you like enhanced (hot mids and highs) and not flat response. Hope that helps. But if you do, you may not find this your cup of tea. A Fostex may be more to your liking?

 

[Cal Weldon]

Cal,
What kind of sound were you expecting from a 85dB driver in a sealed box?

Same box for both drivers. It's what the Vifas came in, via another diyAudio member close to me. (not Planet10). I understood the limitations.

They are flat response to be sure but the baffle step will cause them to not have any bass below 200hz and 5dB falloff from 900hz to 200Hz.

Again, I understood the limitations.

If you EQ the baffle step back and give them bass support then it will sound better.

I can build a box to make them sound better than any BSC could hope to offer, that's not the point.

If you want them to sound good with bass build a 0.40x Karlsonator or at least a BR or MLTL to get some bass down to 55Hz.

I'm aware of that.

Why the JVC sounds better? My guess is you like enhanced (hot mids and highs) and not flat response.

Thanks for that tidbit.

Hope that helps.

I feel enlightened.

But if you do, you may not find this your cup of tea. A Fostex may be more to your liking?

The Fostex sound is more like the Vifas which is why I have but 4 Fostex/Foster drivers in my corral. Not my cup of tea.

X my friend, you already know I've been doing this sort of thing for more than 40 years, I'm not sure you can enlighten me further than you have. I wish we lived closer together, so we could sit and enjoy the difference. It's not subtle. The Vifas are a 10 dollar driver and sound like it. The JVC's are in a different league. I wish I had sent them to you for the comparison test. My bad.

 

[BYRTT]

.....so what's wrong?....

Guess nothing is wrong result is what you prefer from that setup, but have a few comments below.

.....They are in a sealed 6 litre box with no filters. I played a test disc I use to evaluate.....

Your setup is some different than drivers this thread which had bass support below 225Hz 24dB/oct LR and baffle step correction plus level matching between the sub and top, but above XO point drivers were presented with their raw response.

.....what it was about the way they were presented that made them win?.....

Maybe different taste than yours, but have you actually also taken the thread test yourself and compared the seven sound clips xrk971 posted and desided which you prefer between those.

.....I wish more than that, that some of you could come on over and have a listen.....

You could easy share sound clips for those two setups, then we can listen and see if we agree and discuss differences in the two clips.

 

[DPH]

Also, knowing the vifa is rather low sensitivity, make sure that volume levels were matched. Cuz if the JVC is louder (and that's a good assumption), we might have our preference. But you've got to work with what makes you happy!

 

[xrk971]

Same box for both drivers. It's what the Vifas came in, via another diyAudio member close to me. (not Planet10). I understood the limitations.

Again, I understood the limitations.

I can build a box to make them sound better than any BSC could hope to offer, that's not the point.

I'm aware of that.

Thanks for that tidbit.

I feel enlightened.

The Fostex sound is more like the Vifas which is why I have but 4 Fostex/Foster drivers in my corral. Not my cup of tea.

X my friend, you already know I've been doing this sort of thing for more than 40 years, I'm not sure you can enlighten me further than you have. I wish we lived closer together, so we could sit and enjoy the difference. It's not subtle. The Vifas are a 10 dollar driver and sound like it. The JVC's are in a different league. I wish I had sent them to you for the comparison test. My bad.

I guess the only thing left is for you to post sound clips. Did you level match? That was what I was trying to get at saying it's a 85dB driver. I bet that JVC is about 89dB. That in itself will seem like it's better unless you attenuated the JVC to compare.

 

[Cal Weldon]

Maybe different taste than yours, but have you actually also taken the thread test yourself and compared the seven sound clips xrk971 posted and desided which you prefer between those.

Sound clips? I thought it prudent to take the two drivers and listen to them in my listening environment with music I am very familiar with.

You could easy share sound clips for those two setups, then we can listen and see if we agree and discuss differences in the two clips.

Sound clips are close to, no wait absolutletly useless when comparing in house, in your listening environment.

Also, knowing the vifa is rather low sensitivity, make sure that volume levels were matched. Cuz if the JVC is louder (and that's a good assumption), we might have our preference. But you've got to work with what makes you happy!

I always want to be happy Fred, that's what this is all about. Sensitivity was not a consideration. See below.

I guess the only thing left is for you to post sound clips. I bet that JVC is about 89dB. That in itself will seem like it's better unless you attenuated the JVC to compare.

If you all would be kind enough to read that the drivers had to be swapped in the same box in order to ensure all things were equal then you'd have a better handle on this. I had a few minutes between listening sessions and since my last post, I've done another couple of switches. I am back to the Vifas. They still offer what they did before. How do you say... uh.. TV speakers?

I really wish you guys were here, especially you X, we have so much to share. See you in the PM's

 

[gazzagazza]

Sound clips? I thought it prudent to take the two drivers and listen to them in my listening environment with music I am very familiar with.

Sound clips are close to, no wait absolutletly useless when comparing in house, in your listening environment.

I always want to be happy Fred, that's what this is all about. Sensitivity was not a consideration.See below.

If you all would be kind enough to read that the drivers had to be swapped in the same box in order to ensure all things were equal then you'd have a better handle on this. I had a few minutes between listening sessions and since my last post, I've done another couple of switches. I am back to the Vifas.

I really wish you guys were here.

I guess Carl has just discovered that the emperor has no clothes.

 

[Cal Weldon]

Who's Carl there Gagga?

 

[vinylkid58]

Obviously your alter ego.

jeff

 

[Cal Weldon]

I have one of those? Let me go check, be right back.

 

[vinylkid58]

What's Carl cooking for supper tonight?

jeff

 

[Cal Weldon]

Lumps of coal.

I have to get back to listening to make sure I didn't make a mistake.

 

[BYRTT]

.....How do you say... uh.. TV speakers?.....

Come on glad in your particular setup what works for you is clear and we get it which you prefer but looking down stuff for TC9FD suddenly out of the blue here eleven months after poll then words as above and the 10$ argument i don't get, and in a way points to i shall feel like a idiot because out of the seven drivers sound clips offered this thread i prefer TC9FD and voted for it.

 

[Cal Weldon]

Come on glad in your particular setup what works for you is clear and we get it which you prefer

Seems ok. My house, my music, listening to the drivers.

but looking down stuff for TC9FD suddenly out of the blue here eleven months after poll

Brytt, I have been looking forward to hearing these since X took the time to do all the work.

then words as above and the 10$ argument i don't get, and in a way

I am confused too. I was not thinking I would be posting what I did.

points to i shall feel like a idiot because out of the seven drivers sound clips offered this thread i prefer TC9FD and voted for it.

I am just telling you what I heard in a typical listening environment. I am not judging anyone's preference, just wondering. I wish you were close enough to join me and have a listen for yourself.

 

[xrk971]

Cal,
Which driver do you prefer from the clips in the listening test - does the TC9 sound dead and lifeless like a $10 TV speaker? So if you want a fair comparison to your in person listening test - you need to use a FAST. About 350Hz high pass on TC9 and an 8in woofer below that. But as I know you don't do measurements or own a mic it's not going to be possible to set relative levels properly. Just 1.5dB off makes a difference. If you want a fairer comparison - listen to one of Pano's or Bush's Manzanita with TC9 as the top. Commercially those sell for $4k/pair and they use the TC9. Must be something to it given the popularity.

 

[gazzagazza]

Who's Carl there Gagga?

Carl = Cal + Spell Checker.

 

[Cal Weldon]

 

[Cal Weldon]

Cal,
Which driver do you prefer from the clips in the listening test

I didn't participate.

So if you want a fair comparison to your in person listening test - you need to use a FAST. About 350Hz high pass on TC9 and an 8in woofer below that.

That is what I am currently doing with the JVC and a 10" woofer. The TC9's biggest concerns were not its lack of bass.

But as I know you don't do measurements or own a mic it's not going to be possible to set relative levels properly.

Don't mistake not having with not using. I found that the flatter I made the response, the less enjoyable the music was. I had full access to a CLIO system years ago and I found that it took away from the enjoyment more than adding to it, hence my desire to voice by ear.

Must be something to it given the popularity.

Must be.

 

[xrk971]

In similar spirit as this thread but for solid state amps.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/295286-virtual-audition-very-simple-quasi-mosfet-amp.html