Only usable above 1800 Hz, but the HEIL AMT is doing its best above 6k/8k ! like many AMT !
Some have stacked 3 Heils to go in the low territory !
Some have stacked 3 Heils to go in the low territory !
Hmm, I use mine XO at 700Hz and it sounds really good. Ideally just above 1200Hz gets into much lower distortion. How does stacking them let you go lower? Don't have to drive them as hard?
Here is example at 700Hz XO:
Corresponding harmonic distortion:
Impulse Response:
The bass here is provided by the KaZba (Karlson Z-baffle) dipole with dual 8in RS225-8's in push-pull.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...zba-dipole-k-aperture-z-baffle-dipole-11.html
Here is example at 700Hz XO:

Corresponding harmonic distortion:

Impulse Response:

The bass here is provided by the KaZba (Karlson Z-baffle) dipole with dual 8in RS225-8's in push-pull.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...zba-dipole-k-aperture-z-baffle-dipole-11.html
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And some says 1500 Hz, some 1800 Hz (to avoid those distorsions and turbulences ) But many agree after measurement no to go below 1500 Hz. I heard some design with a 10" or 12" below... Something works bad here : the subjective feeling of fastness and micro dynamics give a bad match with the paper drivers I heard. But after a horn in the highs there are testimonals to say it's the best treble unit ever made for (relative) high efficienty
I surmise they stacked to move more air to play it at the lowest FR this driver is able avoiding a too thin sound !
I surmise they stacked to move more air to play it at the lowest FR this driver is able avoiding a too thin sound !
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Interesting, from the specs it seems H2 is only 25dB down. But it is measured at 1W (100dB)
http://www.beyma.com/getpdf.php?pid=CP-21/F
Cross it at 4.5-5kHz and the peak between 3-4kHz is no issue, higher up it's about -30db. No one will hear this, but it's off topic….
Peter
Impulse Response:
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Wow X nice IR, how would that look if XO filter exchanged to linear phase and get tweeter polarity back to be same as woofer.
Jay,
Sounds as you have some fun there 😎 think xrk971 did a good job and probably also because we listen to previous winners here it got very hard to predict letters to sound clips even there is a real difference but much less as in previous rounds.
To me the previous round is harder. May be because of the less control in place, even with Barleywater's files I'm sure I can do 100/100 of Foobar ABX blind test with any of the two files in this round 4.
I think we must learn from SY and the other guys that small different can create bias in an uncontrolled test. What I have noticed is the importance of SPL level. A slight higher SPL, and the perceived quality will be higher because it will have greater impact and dynamic.
Get little confused because predictions you made at post 138 and postponed vote for preference sound, how have that to do with driver building tech plus specs and what others have guessed the letters paired a sound clip, you only need to make a vote for what of the five clips is your preferred sound not a third txt-file 🙂.
I know 😀
I postponed vote because I knew I will listen to the files again. And I knew I would listen again because I was still puzzled with TG9-10F relationship

So, even tho I know what I like best at the moment, as long as I will still listen to the files with different system there will be possibility I will change my preference. I have done this many times on this site. Cheap desktop speaker or headphone is usable, but there are things that my Sennheiser can do better [e.g. the room reverberation on piano clip was not heard with the cheap headphone]. And there are things that my speaker can do better than the Senn [e.g. the exotic vocal of the 10F was not heard on the Senn, B80 was sweeter].
My champion here actually is/was the 10F coz I have planned a 4way system using this driver where the lower driver will be similar sounding [fiberglass]. Whatever the result of this round, 10F is still the best match for my drivers [I wanted the ATC dome, but too expensive].
The vocals are so clear and lifelike, it sounds like the singer has been shrunken and is sitting inside the tweeter singing away.
That's a weird description of the quality 😀 Because I prefer the singer sitting far from the tweeter as if the tweeter doesn't exist.
That's a weird description of the quality 😀 Because I prefer the singer sitting far from the tweeter as if the tweeter doesn't exist.
In an integrated stereo speaker with phantom image yes. What I meant was if you picked up and held the AMT in your hands - it sounds like that.
Voted. They were all good and sounded very close. Only one sounded different enough for me to be able to distinguish... but I liked it least.
Voted. They were all good and sounded very close. Only one sounded different enough for me to be able to distinguish... but I liked it least.
If you said "voted", everyone who monitor the poll result will know what you voted 😉 And it's a "brave" vote by the way 😀 And Jeshi thinks it sounds good too.
Brave? Maybe... I'll admit it was my second choice. I voted different due to hearing one driver that didn't have an apparent rise in HF (more in line with the original song played back) and voted for that one for overall tonality. But I actually liked the midrange on my number 2 and 3 better. Always compromises to be made, right?
So like Jeshi I liked it too.
So like Jeshi I liked it too.
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for a nice inexpensive tweeter from ~1K2 upwards, consider a decent compression driver on a K-tube
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In an integrated stereo speaker with phantom image yes. What I meant was if you picked up and held the AMT in your hands - it sounds like that.
I see. Some [experienced] people don't like this AMT and I don't know or remember what exactly they don't like...
Brave? Maybe... I'll admit it was my second choice. I voted different due to hearing one driver that didn't have an apparent rise in HF (more in line with the original song played back) and voted for that one for overall tonality. But I actually liked the midrange on my number 2 and 3 better. Always compromises to be made, right?
Unfortunately I don't know or remember what your number two and three are... But yes, compromises... And preference can change with different systems... Reminds me why in the old days I always use piano to judge sound quality...
With my Senn I could hear room reverberation clearly but not with cheap headphone. Reverberation is very important for piano...
With most music with piano, the piano should grab your attention before other instruments because it is usually the most beautiful...
When I listen to Adele with my speaker, I always noticed and enjoyed the piano, not the vocal. But with many systems the piano is not "noticed" at all. The same when I heard the second clip with cheap headphone yesterday, I forgot if there was piano there...
Jeshi? Are you calling me a girl?
Certainly this comparison is much closer than the others. Perhaps the most accurate drivers have risen to the top? Personal preference barely seems to count this time around.
Certainly this comparison is much closer than the others. Perhaps the most accurate drivers have risen to the top? Personal preference barely seems to count this time around.
my question - - are good dynamics available with these drivers with ~350Hz FAST setup? can they play things like DAFO's Beast drop, large taiko drum, piano without noticeable strain? fwiw I would want passive xover.
Wesayso I think we voted for different drivers. Maybe my notes where confusing since I listed them in reverse order with my pick at the bottom.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a-11.html#post4443362
I guess I am not taking this round so seriously since I think this approach has limits so I am not so convinced that my pick here would be the same as my pick if I had the drives in hand. I do think these tests help weed out drivers we would be disappointed in though. So I think my top3 here would all be drivers I would be happy to own.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a-11.html#post4443362
I guess I am not taking this round so seriously since I think this approach has limits so I am not so convinced that my pick here would be the same as my pick if I had the drives in hand. I do think these tests help weed out drivers we would be disappointed in though. So I think my top3 here would all be drivers I would be happy to own.
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IMHO, this list can be split in two according the listener tastes :
A & F : soft, casual, warmer
B&D&F : more hifi : better resolution, tones, dynamic, clearer (and yes D is definitly not so bad 😉, honor is safe for it now !)
Maybe according the room & the system you can only have a preference for one of the two ! In my good damped listening room, It seemed someone putted me Nutella paste in the ears with A, and marmelade with F ! (marmelade is lighter but still a plug of wax !)
What is the max SPL those toys can output in a sealed cabinet ?
A & F : soft, casual, warmer
B&D&F : more hifi : better resolution, tones, dynamic, clearer (and yes D is definitly not so bad 😉, honor is safe for it now !)
Maybe according the room & the system you can only have a preference for one of the two ! In my good damped listening room, It seemed someone putted me Nutella paste in the ears with A, and marmelade with F ! (marmelade is lighter but still a plug of wax !)
What is the max SPL those toys can output in a sealed cabinet ?
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I think Jay was talking about you (and me) liking the one driver that's now finally recieved a vote. I think we both had it high in our ranking. But with Jay you never know. He keeps calling them names that I can't follow 😀. Our first place vote was different, I know.Wesayso I think we voted for different drivers. Maybe my notes where confusing since I listed them in reverse order with my pick at the bottom.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a-11.html#post4443362
I guess I am not taking this round so seriously since I think this approach has limits so I am not so convinced that my pick here would be the same as my pick if I had the drives in hand. I do think these tests help weed out drivers we would be disappointed in though. So I think my top3 here would all be drivers I would be happy to own.
A & F : soft, casual, warmer
B&D&F : more hifi : better resolution, tones, dynamic, clearer (and yes D is definitly not so bad 😉, honor is safe for it now !)
You mean A & E: the warmer paper cone?
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