Exciters - Tectonic | Tectonic
Teax25c10-8 is sold under the tectonic brand now,this is basically the exciter I have been using for about 10years now,except mine are 4ohms.
Parts express sells them with frog feet only, by the looks of it,I paid a fraction of this price for a pair, let alone one!!
I ended up buying 20 pairs ,shipping was expensive plus import tax
Still a fraction of the price now.
Steve
Teax25c10-8 is sold under the tectonic brand now,this is basically the exciter I have been using for about 10years now,except mine are 4ohms.
Parts express sells them with frog feet only, by the looks of it,I paid a fraction of this price for a pair, let alone one!!
I ended up buying 20 pairs ,shipping was expensive plus import tax
Still a fraction of the price now.
Steve
Actually, you should try with the bongos. You don't have to paste the exciter on the bongo, just use some tape to hold it on the bongo. It would be interesting what you hear.
Yes, your subjective feeling is the best.
I've tried putting a driver to a Mandolin. Lovely sound. My wife won't allow me to paste anything on that.
It is quite old. The Technics plastic cone has two holes facing each other parallel to disk to get the air out, but atm, I am not ready to damage the driver cone. I am still looking for a thin honeycomb sheet, but what's available in home depots are bit thick. Have to find time to look in junk yards.
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Exciters - Tectonic | Tectonic
Teax25c10-8 is sold under the tectonic brand now,this is basically the exciter I have been using for about 10years now,except mine are 4ohms.
Parts express sells them with frog feet only, by the looks of it,I paid a fraction of this price for a pair, let alone one!!
I ended up buying 20 pairs ,shipping was expensive plus import tax
Still a fraction of the price now.
Steve
Here's link for whole lot of them from Aiyima, but I am not buying any still.
Actually, they are of interest. Some well known companies had made speakers 3-4 decades ago. Nowadays we can get tiny bluetooth vibration speakers that you can put on any surface, and still answer a phone call through it. There's lot of them on ebay UK. More at Aliexpress.
Actually, there's no fun in pasting an "exciter" on any panel. The idea is to get something done specially for my wife's ears, and that has to be pleasing to look at.
I know that pasting a disk over a standard driver gives nice sound, only finding the right disk is the problem, yet. And, on a Mandolin. I don't have a guitar or a drum to test.
By the way, that little Huawei bluetooth (omni) speaker I posted earlier has practically flat surface instead of a cone. (post #2417)
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Experiment few years ago on many surfaces, and again last year. The guy is somewhat funny, or he thinks so, but has millions of views. Many surfaces, many sounds. Best for me is the vase quarter full of water.
And, four years ago.
And, someone else explaining this much better, especially with a spring tied to a membrane.
And, four years ago.
And, someone else explaining this much better, especially with a spring tied to a membrane.
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Chdsl.
Those exciters do not interest me because I am only interested in exciters that can produce the highest quality sound.
Watching someone putting a, what can only be described as a toy on a box or a table isn't much help either.
I could put my exciter on a toilet brush and put it on YouTube,but how would that help
the way to build a high quality sounding panel is set out in this thread and others on line,not just my designs.
Steve .
Those exciters do not interest me because I am only interested in exciters that can produce the highest quality sound.
Watching someone putting a, what can only be described as a toy on a box or a table isn't much help either.
I could put my exciter on a toilet brush and put it on YouTube,but how would that help
the way to build a high quality sounding panel is set out in this thread and others on line,not just my designs.
Steve .
Chdsl.
Those exciters do not interest me because I am only interested in exciters that can produce the highest quality sound.
Watching someone putting a, what can only be described as a toy on a box or a table isn't much help either.
I could put my exciter on a toilet brush and put it on YouTube,but how would that help
the way to build a high quality sounding panel is set out in this thread and others on line,not just my designs.
Steve .
The exciter you have is also a toy.
It is just a coil around a magnet in a simple enclosure and some 2-sided paste film. And, it transfers vibration to any surface, even to a toilet brush. Some producers had taken that "toy" and added a bluetooth module, a power source and a nice enclosure. Some of them have a coil and a magnet that can carry a lot of load, some don't. But it still is an "exciter" or a vibration loudspeaker.
I know people are trying to create a high quality sounding panel here, but most of them have gone away. There were pretty good thoughts on the way about carving the middle, or fixing a beer can bootom, etc to get the thinner sound and getting the lows from the thicker part. No one appeared to listen their experiments, and their subjective feelings (hearing), and they have moved away.
Around 40 years ago, very big audio companies (Akai, Aiwa, Philips, Technics, Sony) had done research and had presented the world with unique speakers. Some can be found in the 2nd hand market today. At that time bluetooth was not invented, but now it is the life.
I don't run to turn knobs on the amplifier anymore. I don't want to put on cds, dvds and so on anymore. I turn the music into digital, where possible, and send the signal to the amplifier through bluetooth. Sure, let the those, who wants to hang their expensive turntables on wires from the ceiling and enjoy vinyl disk music (I have a stack of them). I enjoy music streamed from Solar Radio, Smooth Radio, by the way.
Anyway, I am going to experiment with these panel speakers. I haven't found nicer sound than from the Mandolin, yet. It tells something. Mandolin is box of some sort. Maybe, in the end, I'd buy a pair of 40 year old Technics (£160/pair). Or a Philips £60/pair (bit damaged but sounds nice) and forget about all.
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Well my exciters showed up today and I did the requisite newbie testing of assorted materials. My findings unsurprisingly mirrored the 250 preceeding pages of results. I only have DAEX25QLP-4 (10w, 25mm) and I used a garbage mini amp right now so not much power. I'll be getting some Thrusters and feeding them from a better amp for the next round. All materials were raw and uncut and I just held the exciters against them.
1" Foamular 150 XPS - massive output, very good sound. Everyone's right - this stuff is hard to beat.
1/4" sureply underlayment - Great sound, notably lower output but I was using a 4' x 4' sheet. Will try smaller cuts soon.
Acrylic 8" x 10" x .08 - Decent clarity but no output. I think the sheet was too small and dense. Want to try a larger piece.
Foamcore sheet - Eh. Muted in both FR and output. Not impressed.
Cardboard (corrugated single core) - Good balance between FR and output. Somewhere between the sureply and the Foamcore. Tried a few different kinds. The more rigid the better.
Aluminum cookie sheet - very good clarity and output but it definitely has an unpleasant metallic ring to it.
Craft Fōm (Styrofoam made from recycled plastic) - Nope. I thought the rigidity and air cavities might make it a good candidate but it's garbage for sound and output. Nothing like EPS.
18x20 canvas frame - pretty clear but low output as-is - seems like it has potential once properly prepped and the exciters affixed correctly.
Cutting Sheets - basically plastic placemats from the dollar store intended to be used for chopping vegetables. Great clarity and output but too flimsy on their own. May work well in a frame. Also found they sharpened the quality of the sound when placed between the exciter and the xps, but at the cost of SPL and a little bass. Interested to try them as skins on other substrates.
3/16 "marker board" - had high hopes for this but it's too dense. Sound was dull and output terrible. May be worth a second try when the Thrusters arrive.
Plastic cardboard (like the stuff they use for yard signs) - not good. Low output, localized sound, unpleasant sound characteristic.
I was not impressed with the low end on any of them and that was totally expected. I was however a little disappointed with the upper range on all of them. This is just the preliminary messing around, though. Thrusters and better designed/prepared panels will hopefully yield better results.
1" Foamular 150 XPS - massive output, very good sound. Everyone's right - this stuff is hard to beat.
1/4" sureply underlayment - Great sound, notably lower output but I was using a 4' x 4' sheet. Will try smaller cuts soon.
Acrylic 8" x 10" x .08 - Decent clarity but no output. I think the sheet was too small and dense. Want to try a larger piece.
Foamcore sheet - Eh. Muted in both FR and output. Not impressed.
Cardboard (corrugated single core) - Good balance between FR and output. Somewhere between the sureply and the Foamcore. Tried a few different kinds. The more rigid the better.
Aluminum cookie sheet - very good clarity and output but it definitely has an unpleasant metallic ring to it.
Craft Fōm (Styrofoam made from recycled plastic) - Nope. I thought the rigidity and air cavities might make it a good candidate but it's garbage for sound and output. Nothing like EPS.
18x20 canvas frame - pretty clear but low output as-is - seems like it has potential once properly prepped and the exciters affixed correctly.
Cutting Sheets - basically plastic placemats from the dollar store intended to be used for chopping vegetables. Great clarity and output but too flimsy on their own. May work well in a frame. Also found they sharpened the quality of the sound when placed between the exciter and the xps, but at the cost of SPL and a little bass. Interested to try them as skins on other substrates.
3/16 "marker board" - had high hopes for this but it's too dense. Sound was dull and output terrible. May be worth a second try when the Thrusters arrive.
Plastic cardboard (like the stuff they use for yard signs) - not good. Low output, localized sound, unpleasant sound characteristic.
I was not impressed with the low end on any of them and that was totally expected. I was however a little disappointed with the upper range on all of them. This is just the preliminary messing around, though. Thrusters and better designed/prepared panels will hopefully yield better results.
Negativeghostrider.
You are really going through the old favourites, good and bad.
but I suppose it's the only way to learn for yourself what works or not.
Listening without a low frequency driver will sound a bit lacking as well.
Properly gluing the excited to a panel will also help.
Have fun .
Steve.
You are really going through the old favourites, good and bad.
but I suppose it's the only way to learn for yourself what works or not.
Listening without a low frequency driver will sound a bit lacking as well.
Properly gluing the excited to a panel will also help.
Have fun .
Steve.
If anyone is interested in how a specialised speaker maker connected the aluminium honeycomb panel to the voice coil. This is one of the many such connections. Here, they had used an aluminium "cone." The honeycomb panel is suspended on a flexible surround. The "cone" is there to stiffen the 4 legs that transfer the vibrations to the flat composite panel.
On the other hand, on our "exciter," a small disk is connected to the coil.
On the other hand, on our "exciter," a small disk is connected to the coil.
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Further testing brings interesting results. I ditched the shitty little "18 watt" Chinese amplifier and put the same exciters on an 800 watt PA amp and they became completely different animals. Despite only being 10 watt exciters they were clearly not getting clean power, or enough of it, or both. Subsequently I tested some materials over again, as well as some new ones I picked up today.
1" Xps cut to 12"x24", raw - Has the best clarity of the foams I've tried. Carries the mids and highs the best and sounds the least "boxy". Takes a slight hit on output compared to EPS and the low end isn't nearly as full. I have a feeling if I can thin the panel out it would really bring up the bass and open the sound a bit, but it may cause more "ring".
EPS .9 x 11.8 x 23.8 - got this at the craft store. "Smooth Foam" brand. Not sure of the density. Best low end by far, rich midbass but the highs aren't as good as the XPS. Mids are a little more open but the overall sound is boxy. Needs damping.
EPS .4 x 11.8 x 23.8 - same as above but thinner - good low end but not as bold as the thicker EPS. Clearer mods and highs but more ringing/boxiness to the sound because the material itself is under damped. When I put one of the dollar store chopping mats between the exciter and the styrofoam a lot of the boxy sound goes away and the mids and highs really clear up, at the expense of some output and bass, however. A thinner veneer may be the magic here. This will be a candidate for carbon fiber fabric and epoxy treatment for sure.
Double walled cardboard 36 x 12 - this is one wing chopped off a presentation board from Staples. Output is below all the foams but the sound is warm and tight. Doesn't have the overall presence or extension at the hog and low ends of the foams but possibly has the best tonal quality in my opinion. Want to try the carbon fiber and epoxy on these as well to see if it will brighten them up.
Framed canvas - Not a thick sound but nice sound. Very smooth, open and airy without sounding anemic. Less restrained than the cardboard or foams but without the presence and extension in range. Excited to try this again after it's been properly prepped.
So overall I'm much more excited now than I was last night. Output from all materials is much higher than before, where before it was barely useful when cranked. I couldn't figure out how people were so impressed with the output of these after the first test, but now I get it.
One thing that really surprises me is how localized the sound is on the panels themselves. Granted, I am listening to them very near field, as I'm am still just holding the exciters to the material, but they don't "disappear" or "get lost" behind the panels like I thought they would. Not sure if bigger panels will help or exaggerate this more. I was kind of hoping to use some DMLs as nearfield monitors for my turntables but now I don't know if that's going to work.
My Thrusters should be here tomorrow and I'm excited to try them on heavier materials like the SurePly. I'll also be able to run a biamped setup with active crossovers next week. I think there's a lot of promise in 2 way systems with EPS for low(er) and canvas, cardboard or XPS for high end. Clarity improved notably in the associated ranged when I EQ'd the exciters either for mid/high or mid/low on a given substrate. 2 way systems could really knock it out of the park. I don't think there will ever be a practical way to eliminate the need for a sub though, and certainly not from a single panel system. As magical as DMLs are, you can't ask them to solidly reproduce a full range from one panel. Physics just won't allow as far as I can tell.
I also got a mic so I can check FR and SPL as I go. I'll wait to start doing that with prepped panels though.
1" Xps cut to 12"x24", raw - Has the best clarity of the foams I've tried. Carries the mids and highs the best and sounds the least "boxy". Takes a slight hit on output compared to EPS and the low end isn't nearly as full. I have a feeling if I can thin the panel out it would really bring up the bass and open the sound a bit, but it may cause more "ring".
EPS .9 x 11.8 x 23.8 - got this at the craft store. "Smooth Foam" brand. Not sure of the density. Best low end by far, rich midbass but the highs aren't as good as the XPS. Mids are a little more open but the overall sound is boxy. Needs damping.
EPS .4 x 11.8 x 23.8 - same as above but thinner - good low end but not as bold as the thicker EPS. Clearer mods and highs but more ringing/boxiness to the sound because the material itself is under damped. When I put one of the dollar store chopping mats between the exciter and the styrofoam a lot of the boxy sound goes away and the mids and highs really clear up, at the expense of some output and bass, however. A thinner veneer may be the magic here. This will be a candidate for carbon fiber fabric and epoxy treatment for sure.
Double walled cardboard 36 x 12 - this is one wing chopped off a presentation board from Staples. Output is below all the foams but the sound is warm and tight. Doesn't have the overall presence or extension at the hog and low ends of the foams but possibly has the best tonal quality in my opinion. Want to try the carbon fiber and epoxy on these as well to see if it will brighten them up.
Framed canvas - Not a thick sound but nice sound. Very smooth, open and airy without sounding anemic. Less restrained than the cardboard or foams but without the presence and extension in range. Excited to try this again after it's been properly prepped.
So overall I'm much more excited now than I was last night. Output from all materials is much higher than before, where before it was barely useful when cranked. I couldn't figure out how people were so impressed with the output of these after the first test, but now I get it.
One thing that really surprises me is how localized the sound is on the panels themselves. Granted, I am listening to them very near field, as I'm am still just holding the exciters to the material, but they don't "disappear" or "get lost" behind the panels like I thought they would. Not sure if bigger panels will help or exaggerate this more. I was kind of hoping to use some DMLs as nearfield monitors for my turntables but now I don't know if that's going to work.
My Thrusters should be here tomorrow and I'm excited to try them on heavier materials like the SurePly. I'll also be able to run a biamped setup with active crossovers next week. I think there's a lot of promise in 2 way systems with EPS for low(er) and canvas, cardboard or XPS for high end. Clarity improved notably in the associated ranged when I EQ'd the exciters either for mid/high or mid/low on a given substrate. 2 way systems could really knock it out of the park. I don't think there will ever be a practical way to eliminate the need for a sub though, and certainly not from a single panel system. As magical as DMLs are, you can't ask them to solidly reproduce a full range from one panel. Physics just won't allow as far as I can tell.
I also got a mic so I can check FR and SPL as I go. I'll wait to start doing that with prepped panels though.
How about using 5 petal flower panel, the OP had done that with OB. With OB speakers, the baffle and any sides attached to it would also vibrate and give sound, even though the OB users won't speak about it. Most OB speakers have a large baffle, after all.
Some vibrations (or planned vibrations) in the boxed speaker are good, depending on what surface you put the speakers -- on the floor it gives more bass, while on a semi-filled shelf, or on a bookshelf, depending on how many books there, or how heavy those books are, they give different lows.
Some vibrations (or planned vibrations) in the boxed speaker are good, depending on what surface you put the speakers -- on the floor it gives more bass, while on a semi-filled shelf, or on a bookshelf, depending on how many books there, or how heavy those books are, they give different lows.
Funny you mention that. I have a concept for a small-ish DML with an OB downward firing, baffle loaded 8. And I have been bugging XKR in a couple of his foam enclosure sub threads because I think his XKi and double loaded Lighter Than Air could serve well in a FAST/WAW companions with a DML. Once I have a panel design or two that I'm excited about I'll start messing with the bass drivers.
For a DML, you can use a flower shaped disk/panel with the exciter on the back or front.
"The flower shape reduces edge diffraction effects."
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I gave up waiting for my recordings to upload from my phone ,so I thought I'd just show a picture of the recording in production, that is on my tablet.
The phone is just resting on a rolled up rug.
There are two recordings ,I might have to upload them one at a time?
Steve.
The phone is just resting on a rolled up rug.
There are two recordings ,I might have to upload them one at a time?
Steve.
