My laptop went crazy on me, in trying to edit I lost the post you replied to, here it is;
I resisted stereo for a number of years as I didn't want to dedicate floor space to a pair of K15s. A friend at work also resisted as his speaker was an ElectroVoice Patrician w/18" woofer. Our branch chief laughed at us as he had picked up a pair of AES Giggilos at a hi-fi show.
I still like to listen to and certainly evaluate speakers one at a time.
The first K12 must have not stayed a "Karlonette" long as I think the little 8 inch bookshelf enclosure came sometime in 1955.
I'm trying to retrieve Julian Hirsch's "The Audio League" review of K12 vs K15 from November 1955 but its a mess as Imageshack deleted images, and Audio Asylum lost its links - plus I had uploaded another issue so there are pages missing at this point and probably mixed with a report reviewing the AR1 speaker by the great Edgar Villchur.
We know from the January 1954 issue featuring K15 dimensional details that John Karlson warned against making a 0.8 scale K15. (I don't necessarily share that opinion but do think the front shelf depth might be shortened)
it'll take pretty good speed to load these images - maybe i can sort them out better - for now I can just leave links
There's pertinent info in the report - - If they had tested the slit vent K12 which appeared a bit later, the low harmonic distortion
on the K12 would have gone to high harmonic distortion in the region around tuning.
I disagree with Julian Hirsch on bracing although factory Karlson enclosures were pretty good due to good joinery, glue blocks and stiffening of the wings on the models which had Formica covering. The rear panel on K15 is "drummy" which can lead to a subjective increase in system Q. The wing modulation effects on K15 can be reduced quite a bit with two 3/4" dowel rod struts between the front shelf edge and wing back. Likewise even a single strut from the rear shelf edge to back panel is helpful. On-edge plywood vertical ribs on the back can help too.
EddieT is an early adopter - I only could read about Karlson's and didn't hear K15 to around 1970
THE AUDIO LEAGUE REPORT - mention of the new Karlson 12 at the big NYC show, November 1954
THE AUDIO LEAGUE REPORT - October 1955- review of Karlson by Julian Hirsch
page 1
http://i.imgur.com/wkeYOyf.gif
page 2
http://i.imgur.com/t896H59.gif
page 3
http://i.imgur.com/2pnd4hi.gif
page 4
http://i.imgur.com/0PprDz4.gif
page 5
http://i.imgur.com/l2VE0ev.gif
page 6
http://i.imgur.com/DIDcBly.gif
page 7
http://i.imgur.com/0rxMW7J.gif
page 8
http://i.imgur.com/Pn47zAW.gif
page 9
http://i.imgur.com/hbqGB79.gif
page 10
http://i.imgur.com/0HBqzdH.gif
The first K12 must have not stayed a "Karlonette" long as I think the little 8 inch bookshelf enclosure came sometime in 1955.
I'm trying to retrieve Julian Hirsch's "The Audio League" review of K12 vs K15 from November 1955 but its a mess as Imageshack deleted images, and Audio Asylum lost its links - plus I had uploaded another issue so there are pages missing at this point and probably mixed with a report reviewing the AR1 speaker by the great Edgar Villchur.
We know from the January 1954 issue featuring K15 dimensional details that John Karlson warned against making a 0.8 scale K15. (I don't necessarily share that opinion but do think the front shelf depth might be shortened)
it'll take pretty good speed to load these images - maybe i can sort them out better - for now I can just leave links
There's pertinent info in the report - - If they had tested the slit vent K12 which appeared a bit later, the low harmonic distortion
on the K12 would have gone to high harmonic distortion in the region around tuning.
I disagree with Julian Hirsch on bracing although factory Karlson enclosures were pretty good due to good joinery, glue blocks and stiffening of the wings on the models which had Formica covering. The rear panel on K15 is "drummy" which can lead to a subjective increase in system Q. The wing modulation effects on K15 can be reduced quite a bit with two 3/4" dowel rod struts between the front shelf edge and wing back. Likewise even a single strut from the rear shelf edge to back panel is helpful. On-edge plywood vertical ribs on the back can help too.
EddieT is an early adopter - I only could read about Karlson's and didn't hear K15 to around 1970
THE AUDIO LEAGUE REPORT - mention of the new Karlson 12 at the big NYC show, November 1954
THE AUDIO LEAGUE REPORT - October 1955- review of Karlson by Julian Hirsch
page 1
http://i.imgur.com/wkeYOyf.gif
page 2
http://i.imgur.com/t896H59.gif
page 3
http://i.imgur.com/2pnd4hi.gif
page 4
http://i.imgur.com/0PprDz4.gif
page 5
http://i.imgur.com/l2VE0ev.gif
page 6
http://i.imgur.com/DIDcBly.gif
page 7
http://i.imgur.com/0rxMW7J.gif
page 8
http://i.imgur.com/Pn47zAW.gif
page 9
http://i.imgur.com/hbqGB79.gif
page 10
http://i.imgur.com/0HBqzdH.gif
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Here's where the first K12 was briefly called the "Karlsonette" while there were only two sizes - I think the slit vent K12 cabinet came along about a year or so later - perhaps to make it more adaptable to a wide range of drive units
Funny how a little used name held on in later years. The BA catalog version of the K12 appears to have the slits.Here's where the first K12 was briefly called the "Karlsonette" while there were only two sizes - I think the slit vent K12 cabinet came along about a year or so later - perhaps to make it more adaptable to a wide range of drive units
Larger libraries used to keep periodicals on microfilm. That's where I got my copy of the K15 article in the mid 60s. I wonder if libraries threw out all those films when digital became the rage? I looked up some magazine articles as late as 1984 in Jacksonville, FL library.
I'm probably responsible for the Karlsonette name in later years but it was the first K12 and inside geometry distinct from K15 and the later K12 which had a 10 degree forwards cant port board either with slits, or distributed hole array.
I have a 1955 full size blueprint for the Karlsonette.
here's a front and rear view of the first K12 aka "Karlsonette" - the adjustable rear lowpass gap was clever and useful
The late Leander Adams apparently had a blueprint for an early K8 which had a 3 inch round port rather than slits. I assume the cabinet below was factory (?)
http://i.imgur.com/S2BVe9b.jpg
I have a 1955 full size blueprint for the Karlsonette.
here's a front and rear view of the first K12 aka "Karlsonette" - the adjustable rear lowpass gap was clever and useful
The late Leander Adams apparently had a blueprint for an early K8 which had a 3 inch round port rather than slits. I assume the cabinet below was factory (?)
http://i.imgur.com/S2BVe9b.jpg
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Here's the sketch made from the 1955 K12 kit build that I cloned. Hope it's readable. I built a pair of them, used them for years then sold the Lafayette coaxes and put guitar speakers in them. Later I donated them to a pro-life crisis pregnancy center fund raising garage sale along with a stereo receiver. The purchaser thought they sounded great and placed them in his basement rec center.
Attachments
you really got the dimensions down nice - I'm trying to find out if the 12K kit with hole array port sold in the 1960's was really 23.5" tall or like other K12 - small spiders, small coils, low moving mass sometimes enhanced the clarity (I think)
some vintage speakers probably were better sounding in K12 than such things as Eminence coax.
although K12 can work very well with 10 inch speakers, a "K10" done right should be something nice to add to the K and Karlsonator lineup.
as Karlson said in the January 1954 issue of Radio and Television News, don't scale K15 to 0.8 - - I think I could live with that choice
as long as the front shelf were adjusted subjectively
K12 with pro 12" woofers can hit very hard and as long as power sufficient, compete or "beat" (for size) small front loaded
horn systems
0.8 scale - never had a super strong speaker in it but did run a JBL D123
this Jensen/Knight had a weak motor but pretty midrange
some vintage speakers probably were better sounding in K12 than such things as Eminence coax.
although K12 can work very well with 10 inch speakers, a "K10" done right should be something nice to add to the K and Karlsonator lineup.
as Karlson said in the January 1954 issue of Radio and Television News, don't scale K15 to 0.8 - - I think I could live with that choice
as long as the front shelf were adjusted subjectively
K12 with pro 12" woofers can hit very hard and as long as power sufficient, compete or "beat" (for size) small front loaded
horn systems
0.8 scale - never had a super strong speaker in it but did run a JBL D123
this Jensen/Knight had a weak motor but pretty midrange
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The 1955 K12 kit had a stand with slanted sides connected with 2 dowels, open in front and rear. I didn't copy them.
there was a one-dowel ingenious stand for K12 shown in the July 1958 K12 plans http://public.blu.livefilestore.com...Rzd63Mbmy-0jxqUvbpw/transductor-bo.jpg?psid=1
That may have been it, it's been a long time and I may have mis-remembered the dowels. The K12 looked good on the stand.
I was thinking about the K15. When my son and I converted it into a guitar cab the gold grill cloth and walnut veneer seemed out of place. We stripped the veneer and damaged the exterior plywood in places so we textured the whole cab with a black walnut and a hammer. We went all over the cab striking the walnut just shy of cracking it, then painted it flat black.
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that sounds cool - - I'd sure like to find some nice gold grill cloth for my K12s - I got something funky and gaudy - more like accordion grill cloth than speaker and it soaks up highs,
here's what I think was the standard factory K15 cloth for the mahogany "Karlsonite" (Formica) finish - a silver version was used with the blond Formica option.
here's what I think was the standard factory K15 cloth for the mahogany "Karlsonite" (Formica) finish - a silver version was used with the blond Formica option.
You have to know someone who designs custom clothing. They go to NYC fabric district and I think ANYTHING can be found. They go weekly.
thanks - it seems to be an extinct cloth - here's something in silver which might work but its too short for even a K12 so would have to go on smaller/custom Karlson-type cabinets in the "K10" down region - it might look better with a blonde than dark cabinet -?
there's a 70"x 24" piece of hideous gray cloth direct from China at Ebay for $4.72 including shipping - hehe
https://www.etsy.com/listing/89356676/antique-radio-metallic-speaker-cloth?ref=shop_home_active_2
there's a 70"x 24" piece of hideous gray cloth direct from China at Ebay for $4.72 including shipping - hehe
https://www.etsy.com/listing/89356676/antique-radio-metallic-speaker-cloth?ref=shop_home_active_2
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here's what Carl N says about The Audio League Report
Lot of plus points for the K.
Lot of bad comments about ported boxes.
Re: K vs. Big horns of the day
- outperformed in bass and bass dynamics.
- the list should include a lot more than the Aristocrat & Baronet.
I suspect the of the Audio League's distortion measurements. Many of the same speakers have been tested in the K in recent years as well as tested in ported boxes. Consistently the K has shown lower distortion.
So much for alignment critics of the K... according to the Audio League the speaker brand wasn't significant in the K. On our tests the better speakers have low mass cones and high BL.
Re: Testing. It's so funny that they were unable to do a series of polar plots.
Summary of their subjective comments pertaining to the K:
- creates a startling illusion of actually being in the concert hall with certain types of music
- the sense of realism was un-mistakeable
- performance held up at whisper levels
- the apparent distribution of complex sound is very good whatever the reason
- solid non-boomy bass
- all the highs you could want
- sometimes it has a subjective mid-frequency coloration..."you get used to it in a couple of days"
Lot of plus points for the K.
Lot of bad comments about ported boxes.
Re: K vs. Big horns of the day
- outperformed in bass and bass dynamics.
- the list should include a lot more than the Aristocrat & Baronet.
I suspect the of the Audio League's distortion measurements. Many of the same speakers have been tested in the K in recent years as well as tested in ported boxes. Consistently the K has shown lower distortion.
So much for alignment critics of the K... according to the Audio League the speaker brand wasn't significant in the K. On our tests the better speakers have low mass cones and high BL.
Re: Testing. It's so funny that they were unable to do a series of polar plots.
Summary of their subjective comments pertaining to the K:
- creates a startling illusion of actually being in the concert hall with certain types of music
- the sense of realism was un-mistakeable
- performance held up at whisper levels
- the apparent distribution of complex sound is very good whatever the reason
- solid non-boomy bass
- all the highs you could want
- sometimes it has a subjective mid-frequency coloration..."you get used to it in a couple of days"
The "X" System way of doing Karlson - type speakers
Karlson cabinets were usually offered unloaded but in 1965 a down-scaled 15 inch loaded 2-way model called "X15" with CTS woofer and internal tweeter was introduced.
Maybe someone will have fun sometime making a foam-core or wood "X" system as two way or fullrange with helper tweeter.
The 2nd K12 ten degree port panel offers a nice place to mount a K-tube as would GregB's "Karlsonator" plus the front cavity depth is about right for a 5.5- 6 inch tube to work well and reach the main aperture. On the larger Karlsonator, a bolt mount compression driver would fit up into the "stub" and tube could press fit into a hole.
Karlson's X15 - the first version used a mini wooden K-coupler with 3 inch cone speaker for tweeter, replaced shortly with slotted metal tube and compression driver
Rough survivor showing where it's 1.875" diameter tube fits to the 3-panel reflector
Carl's "X8" based on a standard factory 1950's K8
IG's "X5" based on a scaled 1960's K8
http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/5/59663/X5.jpg
For those who'd like to experiment with Karlson's clam/klam
a K-tube can be attached to some coaxial. I generally recommend
regular Karlson vs klam as klam have the driver buried back further
in the front chamber.
I will say my klam15 with its coax's HF extended by a K-tube
sounds pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mupb8X6iZ6I
Karlson cabinets were usually offered unloaded but in 1965 a down-scaled 15 inch loaded 2-way model called "X15" with CTS woofer and internal tweeter was introduced.
Maybe someone will have fun sometime making a foam-core or wood "X" system as two way or fullrange with helper tweeter.
The 2nd K12 ten degree port panel offers a nice place to mount a K-tube as would GregB's "Karlsonator" plus the front cavity depth is about right for a 5.5- 6 inch tube to work well and reach the main aperture. On the larger Karlsonator, a bolt mount compression driver would fit up into the "stub" and tube could press fit into a hole.
Karlson's X15 - the first version used a mini wooden K-coupler with 3 inch cone speaker for tweeter, replaced shortly with slotted metal tube and compression driver
Rough survivor showing where it's 1.875" diameter tube fits to the 3-panel reflector
Carl's "X8" based on a standard factory 1950's K8
IG's "X5" based on a scaled 1960's K8
http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/5/59663/X5.jpg
For those who'd like to experiment with Karlson's clam/klam
a K-tube can be attached to some coaxial. I generally recommend
regular Karlson vs klam as klam have the driver buried back further
in the front chamber.
I will say my klam15 with its coax's HF extended by a K-tube
sounds pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mupb8X6iZ6I
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I think originally it was just a tribute to the famous X15 plane and not Xperiment, etc. - to me, it seems a way to separate K-coupler with internal K-tube from those with external tube, or fullrange/coaxial. What might an XKi with internal K-tube (if will fit) be called ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15
hey xrk971 - fwiw, I could convert a little coupler which has run W8-1772, Nirvana Super8 and FE206EN to nice effect to an "X8" two way with K-tube - its curved reflector and my meager skills means I would have to shim either the compression driver or threaded adapter to keep from rocking on the curved surface. The little Delta Pro 8A would probably be pretty lively. Its about as large as the 62 percent scale K10. I think a scaled K12 as X8 or 10 would be fun.
I'm probably more interested in an "X10" as a 10" pro woofer can move just about enough air to be
fairly effortless in the upper and midbass regions.
SK8A with AN Super 8 -- I think we should experiment more with apertures like this one:
SK8 with Delta Pro 8a showing reflector profile
0.62 scale K15 with Beta10cx and original APT50 with APT3 adapter
0.62 scale K15 with FE206EN
I'm probably more interested in an "X10" as a 10" pro woofer can move just about enough air to be
fairly effortless in the upper and midbass regions.
SK8A with AN Super 8 -- I think we should experiment more with apertures like this one:
SK8 with Delta Pro 8a showing reflector profile
0.62 scale K15 with Beta10cx and original APT50 with APT3 adapter
0.62 scale K15 with FE206EN
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