Hey Freddy, Do you only use factory spec damping on your K15's? Have you ever done any comparison to having none at all?
I'm at home at the moment and can't do any of that kind of "pressure testing" right now. Maybe if I can find some earplugs and can do it quick enough to keep all the stuff on my table tomorrow.
I'm at home at the moment and can't do any of that kind of "pressure testing" right now. Maybe if I can find some earplugs and can do it quick enough to keep all the stuff on my table tomorrow.
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so far I've only run K15 with roughly factory damping - a little pad on the bottom, a little pad on the top, and a thicker pad under the rear shelf - it may do as well/better without any damping. Have you tried a K-tube?
I did try K-tube. Nice sounding with good dispersion but I couldn't afford to try out bigger drivers to try and match up to the bass. ASD1001 was the best I could come up with but they can't keep up with the 15" bass drivers. So one day it happened that a friend of mine I hadn't seen since I was messing with my K12's came to visit. He also happened to have the JBL's in his basement and they were exactly what I needed. The bigass JBL drivers with the horns win with snare drums and can keep up with the bass drivers so I'm keeping them.
I could of course try 2" K-tube instead of the horns... The horns don't really leve me wanting the extra dispersion of the tubes.
I could of course try 2" K-tube instead of the horns... The horns don't really leve me wanting the extra dispersion of the tubes.
I'd think the nice horn would have power and lower distortion advantages over a 2" format K-tube. What recordings are good to show off snare drum cracks?
ASD1001 might be ok to ~2K5 - on a coax, its weaker say than a PRV D280Ti
your setup reminds me of Lapaire's K15s
ASD1001 might be ok to ~2K5 - on a coax, its weaker say than a PRV D280Ti
your setup reminds me of Lapaire's K15s
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I wonder which HF drivers he used? I have 2 different ones, 2445J and 2446J. I don't remember which one of the two was slightly out of time with the bass drivers but the other one is spot on. Need to measure it again some time.
I wonder if a "K10" for a 10" driver can be reduced a bit more than my last 0.65 size and retain full "hit"? - the goal is the smallest possible K-coupler which can give the impression of a much larger midbass horn and play loud.
I don't know but if you say that a 0.65x scaled K15 still keeps it going then that's a pretty good result already. K12 is about 0.75x K15 size and they are reasonably small IMO.
I still keep wondering why but I don't really have that great memories of my K12. FE206En sounded nice in them but I couldn't seem to get the damping right I guess. With K15 everything just seems to be good at the very least. It just works. Except for the fact that they really are too big and heavy.
I still keep wondering why but I don't really have that great memories of my K12. FE206En sounded nice in them but I couldn't seem to get the damping right I guess. With K15 everything just seems to be good at the very least. It just works. Except for the fact that they really are too big and heavy.
This is where an XKi can come in to give the bass extension lacking in a K12 or K10 and still give the dynamics and punch of the K aperture. The problem with scaling the K15 smaller is that the bass extension (which is at 60Hz) on the K15 just starts to climb. By 0.5x it's 100Hz or no bass. With XKi any size can be optimized for circa 60Hz or 55Hz if the TS parameters support it as a 6th order band pass at that frequency.
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hi X - would you have thoughts for a reasonably small XKi which could carry most of the meat and hit of a kickdrum at believable spl levels? what kind/size of driver is needed?
I think you need at least a 15in for believable kick drum impact. However, with a proper bass FLH, a smaller 12in driver can do it well. So a K15 is needed or an XKi for a 15in. Something like a Deltalite or equivalent. What we need is ability to launch 50Hz pulse with clean impulse response at 105dB at listening position. Similar to THX specification. This means driver needs to make 50Hz and 115dB to 120dB easily at 1m.
I'd suspect low qts type drivers are what you want.
Low Qts and lowish Fs drivers really like to be in ML-TL or reflex boxes, whereas mid to highish Qts drivers do quite well in TQWT and traditional open end TL's. Obviously this is not a hard and fast rule, but IME it is generally true.
Therefore, WRT K derivatives, it seems probable that a low qts driver is going to do well in an xKi, and mid Qts will do better in a Karlsonator.
Considering the synergy of low q and ML-TL, I wonder if a 'high aspect' xKi would sound good with an overdamped sort of driver?
Low Qts and lowish Fs drivers really like to be in ML-TL or reflex boxes, whereas mid to highish Qts drivers do quite well in TQWT and traditional open end TL's. Obviously this is not a hard and fast rule, but IME it is generally true.
Therefore, WRT K derivatives, it seems probable that a low qts driver is going to do well in an xKi, and mid Qts will do better in a Karlsonator.
Considering the synergy of low q and ML-TL, I wonder if a 'high aspect' xKi would sound good with an overdamped sort of driver?
I have some reasonably low Q 15's laying around including Altec 421-8/416, JBL M151, and B&C15tbx40/15pb40 - the latter have good xmax but lose ~5dB in the mids in trade for stiffer cones and more xmax so can require a kw peak to get some presence (I have a buyout Crown rated 1KW @8)
MMJ indicates those B&C will play fine in his 100 liter Karlflex - I think they're not real far off in spec from the PHL used in Metro Audio's T15
for a fixed overall bulk, what role does higher aspect play in a regular K? what might it do in the XKi?
MMJ's prototype with small and shallow front "cavity" has pretty well deleted the traditional K-aperture favoring "E" in the image below - the extra volume of the top stub can also help smooth harmonics
MMJ indicates those B&C will play fine in his 100 liter Karlflex - I think they're not real far off in spec from the PHL used in Metro Audio's T15
for a fixed overall bulk, what role does higher aspect play in a regular K? what might it do in the XKi?
MMJ's prototype with small and shallow front "cavity" has pretty well deleted the traditional K-aperture favoring "E" in the image below - the extra volume of the top stub can also help smooth harmonics
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for a traditional K using a 10 - which of these woofers looks most appropriate ? - are they all too strong to get a solid 70-80Hz? - are there choices with better subjective midrange and lower treble?
10FW65
10HPL64
3010HO
10FW65
10HPL64
3010HO
Basslite S2010 worth considering... Under $90
150W RMS • 2" Coil • Le: 0.47 mH • Re: 5.02 ohms • 54-4,000 Hz
Neo Magnet : 4 oz. • Fs: 46 Hz • 96.2 dB 1W/1m • Vas: 2.2 cu. ft.
Qms: 4.16 • Qes: 0.34 • Qts: 0.31 • Xmax: 4.0 mm
150W RMS • 2" Coil • Le: 0.47 mH • Re: 5.02 ohms • 54-4,000 Hz
Neo Magnet : 4 oz. • Fs: 46 Hz • 96.2 dB 1W/1m • Vas: 2.2 cu. ft.
Qms: 4.16 • Qes: 0.34 • Qts: 0.31 • Xmax: 4.0 mm
Attachments
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3010MB does look very nice (and you did a nicer job of putting its parameters into the graph)
Delta10A is a strong driver but sometimes I wonder if its peak won't contribute coloration even with the lowpass flattening response (?) - with pink noise and the driver in free air, that peak sounds horrific. Is it mainly a function of the 10" size and cone geometry? The new B102 could be used but its sensitivity is less than the original B102 - perhaps that could be a plus in a small (~0.55-0.58 X K15) K-coupler in a small room
its my opinion a good K "could" substitute for a good midbass horn and perhaps be more valuable at times but doubt how may others would share that view (due to their lack of experience). I've had/have 100Hz straight Edgarhorn w. 2220H, EV Sentry IV, Klipschorn, FH1 and generic 50Hz folded horns for rough reference.
the Karlson X15 size 15" coupler which reappeared after John Karlson's death as Transylvania Power Company, KK-Audio, Westwood, BEC, Acoustic Control 115BK and others is a nice size * and appropriate lower cutoff for comparison with typical midbass horns. (* ~27-28"H x 19-20.5"W x 13.5-15"D)
Delta10A is a strong driver but sometimes I wonder if its peak won't contribute coloration even with the lowpass flattening response (?) - with pink noise and the driver in free air, that peak sounds horrific. Is it mainly a function of the 10" size and cone geometry? The new B102 could be used but its sensitivity is less than the original B102 - perhaps that could be a plus in a small (~0.55-0.58 X K15) K-coupler in a small room
its my opinion a good K "could" substitute for a good midbass horn and perhaps be more valuable at times but doubt how may others would share that view (due to their lack of experience). I've had/have 100Hz straight Edgarhorn w. 2220H, EV Sentry IV, Klipschorn, FH1 and generic 50Hz folded horns for rough reference.
the Karlson X15 size 15" coupler which reappeared after John Karlson's death as Transylvania Power Company, KK-Audio, Westwood, BEC, Acoustic Control 115BK and others is a nice size * and appropriate lower cutoff for comparison with typical midbass horns. (* ~27-28"H x 19-20.5"W x 13.5-15"D)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Thunk303 may be building a 2-way horn with a Univ Classic on the bottom (higher Qts driver) get 45Hz to 500Hz, and the Trynergy to go from 500Hz to 20kHz. Here is sim for Delta15LFA (not too shabby and high Qts gives deeper extension):
More details here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-trynergy-full-range-tractrix-synergy-69.html
More details here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-trynergy-full-range-tractrix-synergy-69.html
here's what I get with one of my M151 JBL speakers in hornresp for 1pi with the University Classic
I didn't bother to change the comment entry at the time of the screenshot
I didn't bother to change the comment entry at the time of the screenshot
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A question for the Karlson experts -- after the good results with the Karlsonator that xrk came up with for my chr70s I would like to try the Hemps that I have lying around in a Karlson type enclosure. With the following specs which would be the recommended enclosure?
Thiele-Small Parameter(Herstellerangaben)
Nennimpedanz/Gleichstromwiderstand: 8 / 6,2 Ohm
Resonanzfrequenz: 45 Hz
Gütefaktoren(Qms/Qes/Qts): 2,5 / 0,5 / 0,41
Äquivalenzvolumen(Vas): 88 Liter
Effektive Membranfläche(Sd): 200 cm²
Antriebsfaktor(BL): 6,5 Tm
Schwingspulenüberhang(Xmax): 1,9 mm
The drivers have a coat of dammar and the whizzers removed in case that makes a difference.
Thanks!
Thiele-Small Parameter(Herstellerangaben)
Nennimpedanz/Gleichstromwiderstand: 8 / 6,2 Ohm
Resonanzfrequenz: 45 Hz
Gütefaktoren(Qms/Qes/Qts): 2,5 / 0,5 / 0,41
Äquivalenzvolumen(Vas): 88 Liter
Effektive Membranfläche(Sd): 200 cm²
Antriebsfaktor(BL): 6,5 Tm
Schwingspulenüberhang(Xmax): 1,9 mm
The drivers have a coat of dammar and the whizzers removed in case that makes a difference.
Thanks!
Vas on this 8in driver is a bit on large side, it may work in a Karlsonator 8 but will have to run a sim. Qts and Vas is probably too large for a standard K15 (scaled down) style box though.