A Speaker that Kicks Butt in Large Spaces

[freddi]

tying the front and back to the shelf might be sufficient. I had a cheap Warwick bass combo amp whose MDF flexed a lot and it was functional.
Using 1/2" material would be 14.6" wide by 21.5" high going by 0.65 * K15's internal dims

 

[freddi]

hey X - I've got a mini K15 in the 0.55 scale ballpark for an 8" which might hold a 10" - could one get a rough idea of performance in that case where the front of the cone sees an ~7" diameter cutout? have to be careful not to let B102's cone slap against the baffle (IF it will fit the rear chamber)

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[xrk971]

hey X - I've got a mini K15 for an 8" which might hold a 10" - could one get a rough idea of performance in that case where the front of the cone sees an ~7" diameter cutout? have to be careful not to let B102's cone slap against the baffle (IF it will fit the rear chamber)

Not sure what your question is... You have a K15 scaled down to 8/15 (0.53x) and you want to put a 10 incher (B102) in it?

If that is your question, here is what you get:

Usable to 80Hz, needs a sub below 80Hz.

 

[freddi]

its 1/2" plywood, this size: 1.4 cubic foot external bulk at 18.625" H x 13.5" W x 9.625" D (sans molding) and is cutout for an 8" - can I get a pretty good idea of how it would perform with proper cutout for a 10" by rear mounting a 10" speaker over the ~7" diameter hole? do you predict good power handling with Delta10a or B102 in 0.55 to 0.65 size K? (got 1kw/c) - -would a 2X10" Karlsonator be a good project with regards to range and power handling? or does it get too tall/long? - (two 2.5" to 3" coil should do pretty well.)

 

[freddi]

oops -the external dims are ~18.7"H x 13.5"W x 11.5"D for ~1.7 cu.ft. external bulk and B102 fits pretty well centered over the existing cutout - got to dig for a camera. The plywood in this old cabinet isn't as stiff as modern 1/2" Baltic birch. If it really could hit 80Hz with power then would be a good substitute for larger front load horns. I'm pretty sure ~0.65 scale will do 80 with Delta10A. Sometimes its easier and better to add a sub or two than try to extend some drivers LF cutoff. That recent TQWT with 1260W Infinity is liked by TheJessMan.

the speaker which came with this little diy K was a weak motor Stromberg-Carlson

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[freddi]

with a thrown together mismash of 1uF to a CTS KSN1005 helper tweeter w. 28R shunt, the new model of B102 does pretty well - drums have real visceral kick without even 1/16" peak to peak excursion - maybe better than some front horn such as my 100Hz hypex - its got promise in this tiny form factor - the old mahogany plywood cabinet is flexy and tweeter not optimum - a good sub or two and this might be a pretty good system for realistic spl in a small package. btw, the cutout for the 8 is such as it just barely hides B102's surround.

for those who want real dynamics and are willing to experiment, Karlson enclosures offer a good alternative to direct radiator and horn

 

[freddi]

hey X - what are some of the best small drivers for wide dynamic little K work? I've one Delta Pro8A - although it shows strong in the graph below, its less sensitive than a F6 L.Cao - but the Eminence will take more power - there should be some strong 10" - I want realistic drum sounds in as small of a package as possible (combined with a sub) at 18.6x13.5x11.5", my little K15 type even with the weaker/new B102 is impressive in its range.

Delta Pro8A in SK8 vs F6 L.Cao in a Karlsonator6 prototype - perhaps SK8's curved reflector and (small area) port are contributing
to the large spl variation

 

[xrk971]

Have you looked at any B&C's ? Their 6 in and 8in drivers are pretty nice for sensitivity. Get the Nd magnet ones - cost a little more but are more powerful typically.
B&C 8NDL51 8" Neodymium Woofer

Faital Pro 8HX200 coax is also nice
http://www.usspeaker.com/faital%20pro%208hx200-1.htm

 

[freddi]

for a 4ohm driver, MCM has a good price on a Faital Pro 10" - its only rated 300W but that's not shabby - how does this look to you? The amp I bought recently is optimized for higher loads - rated 1K@8/1.3K@4ohm

I have some SN10 P-Audio 10" coax unused which might make pretty good little midbass Ks


Faital Pro 10 Inch 300W 4 Ohm Mid Range / Mid Bass Speaker | 10PR300C | Faital Pro

Faital10

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

my P-Audio 10cx IIRC has a bit stronger motor than spec and being neo, is pretty light

Here's SN10C's pdf http://bjl.audioconcept.free.fr/Archives/03_Caracteristiques_HP/P.AUDIO SYSTEM/SN SERIES/SN-10C.pdf

do you think it would work in this small K?

coaxial speaker
diameter in / 10/254 mm
Power RMS (W) 200
resistance (ohms) 8
resonant frequency Fs (Hz) 67.3
Sensitivity 1 W / m (dB) 94
overall quality factor Qts 0,455
equivalent volume Vas (l) 27.2
maximum displacement Xmax (mm) 2.8
Frequency range (Hz) 65-20000
diameter of the coil (in) 2,5
neodymium magnet material
HF driver (in) 1
Weight (kg) 3.1

here's SN10C's woofer graph - extremely blurry but believe the 94dB/1KHz sensitivity helps mark its window
it has a rise similar to Delta10A

SN10C coax

Delta10A

 

[freddi]

here's the only picture I can find of my P-Audio 10" coax - if its good for a little K then may have a pair made -

 

[xrk971]

SN10C works well in 0.55x K15

Freddi,
The P-audio SN10-C seems to do a good job down to 80 Hz or so - possibly enough for your drums?

 

[freddi]

thanks - that might be enough - is a bit larger any more useful? - does power handling of the 0.55 size look good?

how much sub would you say is needed to subjectively balance out a little 0.55 scale pair?

Delta10a looks pretty strong

compared to the moderate strength motor coax, SN-10C

 

[xrk971]

If you only needed 100Hz, the SN10C gets close to 100dB sensitivity at 100Hz (with a little peak) if using a slotted K-aperture vs a cusp shown above. The cusp gets deeper extension at the price of SPL level.

 

[freddi]

100Hz might do -besides a pair of SN10C, I've a pair of Delta10A, one new spec B102, 2 old 10G200, and maybe 2 new Beta10cx- a good sub would be needed - - what might one make which is reasonably compact to keep up with the little Ks and reach say 40Hz?

how far downwards does the cusp aperture shift tuning?

 

[xrk971]

For a sub, don't you have that nice box Jessman made for your Alpine drivers? If you want 98dB sensitivity to 40Hz, and reasonably compact and good dynamics to match the K's, I would go with a tapped horn. The cusp stretches it about 10 to 15 Hz lower vs the slotted aperture.

 

[freddi]

it was for an Infinity 1260W - I let him keep it awhile to evaluate with a new set of speakers - he likes that sub - -what might be done for a strong ~40Hz tapped horn sub?

 

[xrk971]

There is the Keystone sub that is well liked:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/subwoofers/229178d1309290471-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers-keystone_sub_dwg_corrections_2.pdf

With a Lab12 driver reaches 40Hz I think.

You can't go wrong with the TH-18 if you can handle the size:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/190635-th-18-flat-35hz-xoc1s-design.html

Predicted performance:

 

[freddi]

for a midbass module in a full horn system, RCA-Fan's Hypex70 could be used instead of a Karlson-coupler

but for impact and small size, I prefer K to horn.

what scale K15 looks best for Kappa12A? -

Thiele-Small Parameters

Resonant Frequency (Fs)45 Hz
DC Resistance (Re)5.41 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)0.77 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)7.76
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.28
Total Q (Qts)0.27
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)4 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.3 mm/N
BL Product (BL)15.2 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)42g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)3.2 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)519.5 cm²

for already made bass, I can use a Stereo Integrity SI15D2 bandpass box

 

[xrk971]

I just noticed this driver posted in another thread. Might be good for a K?

MONACOR INTERNATIONAL : SP-30PATC

 

[freddi]

probably ok - its been around a real long time but I've not seen it for sale in the USA