A(nother) reason NOT to DIY
- Thread starter AJinFLA
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If these Insignia's aren't "made by" Radiient, they must certainly be made by the same factory in china http://www.ecoustics.com/secrets/volume_13_2/radiient-technologies-europa-speakers-5-2006.html
Too bad they posted no measurements. I wouldn't expect them to be much different, except in the uppermost treble. The XO might be a bit better. I doubt it or the "super" tweeter make it a $150 better LOL. I'll skip on the Biwiring also
.
Interestingly, the Audax CF unit still available from Madisound has a similar shape in its upper range http://www.madisound.com/pdf/audax/hm100c0.pdf
I guess I can't be to fussy about what is probably a $7 driver .
cheers,
AJ
(Has this review been posted before? It will be interesting to see how it propagates to other forums across the internet.)
Too bad they posted no measurements. I wouldn't expect them to be much different, except in the uppermost treble. The XO might be a bit better. I doubt it or the "super" tweeter make it a $150 better LOL. I'll skip on the Biwiring also
.Interestingly, the Audax CF unit still available from Madisound has a similar shape in its upper range http://www.madisound.com/pdf/audax/hm100c0.pdf
I guess I can't be to fussy about what is probably a $7 driver
.cheers,
AJ
(Has this review been posted before? It will be interesting to see how it propagates to other forums across the internet.)
Well I just bought myself a pair of these insignia's and I must admit if I wasnt a diy'er i would return these rather quickly.
But since I bought these to measure them and compare my results to Zaphs and other's to double check that everything is set up right on my end I'll keep them. For $35 I cant complain, they are worth it for confirming that my equipment and SW are operating properly, and when I get around to it they will get fixed up.
For comparison I did some listening to these and my Bose single cubes(older models) and you might not believe me but the bose were better in most respects. First off the older bose were higher quality than the new crap they peddle so try not to think of the new stuff here. Also, I bypassed the crossover and "Bass" module and run the cubes full range crossed to cheap 12's(technics) via internal receiver x-over. Now these bose lack the 100-300hz range pretty bad however
they have really low energy storage and omitting the afformentioned freq. range the cube walls dont resonate at all, so the end result is a very clean sound and not as bright as you might think.
The Insignias, ugghhh. I dont know yet if they lack high end extension or if all of the midbass peaks and box resonance are just overpowering the highs. The mid bass is so resonant that the bass and the mid/upper sound very recessed and I did not enjoy listening to them at all.
That being said, I ran the bose off one amp and the insignias off another and when running them both together with appropriate levels they complimented each other nicely, although still too much resonance.
An interesting song to listen to on these, which happens to be great for detecting resonance in male vocals is "purple rain" by Prince, ironically its also good for analyzing female vocals, i mean it is prince were talking about here. What makes this song good is the silence after he sings in parts which make any delayed sounds (from the box) really stand out, these speakers are so bad it sounds like an echo chamber, no exaggeration.
also listening to hotel california by the eagles you can hear some "tapping" sounds right after the drum beats, another enclosure aspect!!!
But since I bought these to measure them and compare my results to Zaphs and other's to double check that everything is set up right on my end I'll keep them. For $35 I cant complain, they are worth it for confirming that my equipment and SW are operating properly, and when I get around to it they will get fixed up.
For comparison I did some listening to these and my Bose single cubes(older models) and you might not believe me but the bose were better in most respects. First off the older bose were higher quality than the new crap they peddle so try not to think of the new stuff here. Also, I bypassed the crossover and "Bass" module and run the cubes full range crossed to cheap 12's(technics) via internal receiver x-over. Now these bose lack the 100-300hz range pretty bad however
they have really low energy storage and omitting the afformentioned freq. range the cube walls dont resonate at all, so the end result is a very clean sound and not as bright as you might think.
The Insignias, ugghhh. I dont know yet if they lack high end extension or if all of the midbass peaks and box resonance are just overpowering the highs. The mid bass is so resonant that the bass and the mid/upper sound very recessed and I did not enjoy listening to them at all.
That being said, I ran the bose off one amp and the insignias off another and when running them both together with appropriate levels they complimented each other nicely, although still too much resonance.
An interesting song to listen to on these, which happens to be great for detecting resonance in male vocals is "purple rain" by Prince, ironically its also good for analyzing female vocals, i mean it is prince were talking about here. What makes this song good is the silence after he sings in parts which make any delayed sounds (from the box) really stand out, these speakers are so bad it sounds like an echo chamber, no exaggeration.
also listening to hotel california by the eagles you can hear some "tapping" sounds right after the drum beats, another enclosure aspect!!!
All right, I just finished the FR of these but I cant get a copy of the chart out of SW, im rather irritated but thats expected at 3am.
So I now know that my system measures almost exactly like Zaphs except for more of a hump around 100-180 hz, this might be a port merge error though, and I need a different mic mine rolls off around 18khz, $35 well spent. The mic is, was used by audiologists although the output is really low and all 1m measurements averaged -60dB.
Anyways, if anyone knows how to get a copy of the graph out, I would like to know.
So I now know that my system measures almost exactly like Zaphs except for more of a hump around 100-180 hz, this might be a port merge error though, and I need a different mic mine rolls off around 18khz, $35 well spent. The mic is, was used by audiologists although the output is really low and all 1m measurements averaged -60dB.
Anyways, if anyone knows how to get a copy of the graph out, I would like to know.
nunayafb said:
I initially felt the same way. But I followed what some have said and gave them break-in time. After 7 days of 8-10 hrs of play, I've noticed improvements in bass. One guy said his treble only STARTED to open up correctly at 8 days. So mine may still improve a little more.
Now that it's $35, it's worth my while to try Zaph's notch filter design. That will be another $35 for a total of $70 + tax/shipping. Besides, at $35, they look too good to take back.
As far as frequency response...to quote Zaph....
"Still, this is a $20 speaker, and for that it's not bad at all. I've seen worse at a few times the price."
Thanks for confirming the measurements. Like you said...$35 well spent.
This is really good to know, I will use them as mains for awhile to break them in. After that I will (eventually) stiffen the boxes up and retest them, tweeter and woofer separately of course and redesign the crossover.
$20 speaker, retail yeah. Has anyone thought about how cheap these were to actually build? Best buy let them out the door for $35 a pair with packing. They made a profit, the chinese(assuming) manufacturer made a profit, the designer/owner(an american firm) made a profit, that doesnt leave much for mdf, plastic veneer,carbon fiber(is it real?),the rest of the speaker, crossover, sutffing, assembly, gloss black cover(radiused). I mean dang, why cant I get stuff this cheap
, its $30 just to get a sheet of mdf! -end rant.
Depends on what mods you intend to do, if you intend to fill in the internal grooves like the website mentioned earlier in the post suggests you can then also lay a sheet of steel on the inside glued on with liquid nails or similar. This will also double as constrained layer damping and should reduce box colorations nicely.
zuki said:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...t&productCategoryId=cat03043&id=1138085354138
Only during the 2-day sale. Time is almost up, though. Maybe you can online order these for in store pick-up. Then return your current ones.
Mods using probably less than $1 worth of materials So now we have the $36 pair of speakers LOL.
A segmented ring, made of Cascade damping sheet, on the backside edge of the cone, rings of very thin adhesive backed felt (courtesy of Walmart) on the frontside edge on the surround and around the tweeter.
Still a very modest speaker, but for $35 what would one expect?
I've seen crappola plastic computer speakers selling for more.
If someone want's to measure one of those to compare against these, be my guest.
Just having a bit of fun is all...
cheers,
AJ
A segmented ring, made of Cascade damping sheet, on the backside edge of the cone, rings of very thin adhesive backed felt (courtesy of Walmart
) on the frontside edge on the surround and around the tweeter.Still a very modest speaker, but for $35 what would one expect?
I've seen crappola plastic computer speakers selling for more.
If someone want's to measure one of those to compare against these, be my guest.
Just having a bit of fun is all...
cheers,
AJ
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
got two pair of these today. Amazing little speakers for what they are.
Navin, I would be willing to give you a pair if you would pay for shipping. You helped me several years ago on a 2way scan speak 8545 xover design. I know shipping to u would be alot. you can contact me at davids2003at adlephia.net
Dave
Navin, I would be willing to give you a pair if you would pay for shipping. You helped me several years ago on a 2way scan speak 8545 xover design. I know shipping to u would be alot. you can contact me at davids2003at adlephia.net
Dave
Thanks Dave,
Geez thanks for the offer but this excercise would be diffucult given the country i live in.
I live in India and our import formalities and duties and taxes on imports makes this rather unattractive.
1. We pay duty of C.I.F value (about 80% of C.I.F)
2. THen we pay local taxes (a sort of Sales tax) on C.I.F value + duty (about 28%)
3. Then we in Bombay (Mumbai) pay about 5.5% tax on CIF+duty+sales tax
I helped you because I could. I'm sure you have done the same for others so we are quits! The power of the internet!
One of the reasons I got into DIY is that the duites on drivers are a lot less than speakers. And these duties are usually levied arbitrarily (the customs assumes the values we show are not correct) so for example importing a pair of Jordan Jxr6 drivers might cost less than importing a pair of NHT 1259 woofers! becuase the customs will assume a 2" driver cant be half as expensive as a 12" driver.
Due to this when I import drivers I rather import good quality small drivers (at present I am considering 5pcs of the Jordan JxR6, JX92, Supravox 135, Veravox 5x, or FR125).
Geez thanks for the offer but this excercise would be diffucult given the country i live in.
I live in India and our import formalities and duties and taxes on imports makes this rather unattractive.
1. We pay duty of C.I.F value (about 80% of C.I.F)
2. THen we pay local taxes (a sort of Sales tax) on C.I.F value + duty (about 28%)
3. Then we in Bombay (Mumbai) pay about 5.5% tax on CIF+duty+sales tax
I helped you because I could. I'm sure you have done the same for others so we are quits! The power of the internet!
One of the reasons I got into DIY is that the duites on drivers are a lot less than speakers. And these duties are usually levied arbitrarily (the customs assumes the values we show are not correct) so for example importing a pair of Jordan Jxr6 drivers might cost less than importing a pair of NHT 1259 woofers! becuase the customs will assume a 2" driver cant be half as expensive as a 12" driver.
Due to this when I import drivers I rather import good quality small drivers (at present I am considering 5pcs of the Jordan JxR6, JX92, Supravox 135, Veravox 5x, or FR125).
These are Insignia, that's why they're so cheap : There are <$100 amps on eBay with giant toroids and lots of nice parts. (Often broken, need to replace a few parts to get them working again)
Yez, Dave I know.
I spent my teens and tweens in the US.
I spent my teens and tweens in the US.
I hate to break the flow of friendly conversation, guys, but I have a question. Now that the gents with the fancy measuring equipment have had these speakers for awhile, has anyone had any thoughts on what type and volume of enclosure these drivers should be used in? Someone had suggested an AS enclosure might work best and some one had mentionedu using the drivers in a builder's contest. If I'm not that impressed with the original cabinets' quality (which I find impressive only on the basis of what these speakers sell for), has anyone given any thought to what new enclosures might suit these drivers?
I dont see much wrong aesthetically with the existing enclosure ( from the pics). It might be not well braced or stiff enough and that can be easily rectified.
The easiest way I have found to stiffen such an enclosure is to use resin impregnated fiberglass mat on the insides. One as to worn on one side at a time and the only access is the drvier hole. so the size of mat depends on how much one can stuff in via that orifice.
The easiest way I have found to stiffen such an enclosure is to use resin impregnated fiberglass mat on the insides. One as to worn on one side at a time and the only access is the drvier hole. so the size of mat depends on how much one can stuff in via that orifice.
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