Hard to say, the problem might be less if you are using identical supplies. You still run the risk of current crossing over between the supplies across the groundplain, which is something to be avoided. Doede already put thought into this when designing the boards, to prevent this as much as possible.
Thanks, I 'll wait for the new boards because I understand 30% or less what realy is going on here 😛
But it is a real pleasure to read about all the experiments and joy of DIY on this DAC
The only thing I have try is change the power supply of Doede into a Battery one, to much hassle afterall and less controle on lower part ohh and I ve switched from capacitor output to Cinemag and now I have nothing inbetween the DDDAC output, this gives the biggest change in sound. it gives a bit more detail and bass controle, very smooth sound, good for hours of listening pleasure
Any thoughts about when the new boards are ready?
James, Stefan, Stijn
Thanks a lot for your nice and informing stories. Really interesting seeing all the nice stuff at the table.
James, comparing 1 dddac with shunts and unregulated powersupply to a 4 ddac with shunts and unregulated powersupply, how would you describe the differences in SQ, after you inserted ccs pin 20 with sk208o? This is interesting for me to decide to go for 1 full modified deck or a 4 full modified one.
Paul
Thanks a lot for your nice and informing stories. Really interesting seeing all the nice stuff at the table.
James, comparing 1 dddac with shunts and unregulated powersupply to a 4 ddac with shunts and unregulated powersupply, how would you describe the differences in SQ, after you inserted ccs pin 20 with sk208o? This is interesting for me to decide to go for 1 full modified deck or a 4 full modified one.
Paul
And there's absolutely no change to Dose's grounding arrangements with my set up
That's helpful, thanks 🙂 and yes, I agree it's important to test things out for yourself and see what you prefer. I was just wondering if there were any obvious rules we should be following for digital circuits.
Hi Paul,
I was discussing this with Stefan, because after I fitted the 2SK208o ccs in the pin20 in my 1 deck it sounded great. when comparing to Stefan's 4 deck, they certainly sounded different, and I would describe the 4 deck as sounding fuller and richer, but I didn't feel that I was losing any detail with my 1 deck. Mine wasn't filling out the soundstage in the same way. the individual instruments were all present and with great clarity and very clear separation and positioning and a nice wide soundstage, but with a lot of open space in between instruments or performers. The 4 deck had all the same detail, but this space in the soundstage between stuff was kind of filled out with more sound. I'm not great at describing this and I found it tricky to define exactly the difference, but that was my impression. As to which is more accurately reproducing the original recording, I'm not certain. Was mine missing some of the ambient detail in the recording or was the 4 deck adding a little? I don't know.
I'm not in any rush to add extra decks to mine though. I really like the clean and precise nature of it and it works well with my valve amps.
I don't understand why people don't record the output of a dac onto a computer and compare the waveform with the original sound file that was played to create a difference file in order to check for accuracy of reproduction. Anyone know a reason why that doesn't work as a method?
Stijn & David,
I think am lost in this translation. Pls guide me back to the right path?
Are we talking about having two separated unregulated power supply to each analogue and digital, could result in current jumping between two ps, which in turn has detrimental effects?
If this is the case, will raising some concerns for my next dual unregulated ps mod. I was thinking a separated Power transformer, follow by LCLC, each isolated by 4-poles Mundorf AG caps for digital and analogue.
Grateful for all your inputs here, Guys?
Cheers,
Chanh
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the rule is 'local decoupling' as close to the Dac chip as possible i.e after the shunt reg
That's where the vhf digital noise gets shunted to the ground plane
Hi Chahn, some seem to disagree but all I can say is that in my case, it didn't sound very good. Besides that it's not very good practise to have a common ground between different PSU running across a PCB's (not that I care much about "good practise"). Maybe with identical supplies the sonic result is less pronounced. If I wanted to seperate analogue and digital supplies out further I'd go Stefan's route and ad an extra RC for the digital side but maintain the common main PSU. Sometime less is more. It's an inherent trade-off due to the boards common ground.
Maybe save your new supply for the up and coming DSD build. 🙂
Hi Stijn,
Thanks for your reply.
My raw unregulated ps is precisely a duplicate of Stefan's. I did express my satisfaction with what currently having. Nonetheless, part of me wants more! 😀
Anyway, I will give this a try and reporting back?
If I don't like it, will reserve them for my next DSD build. 🙂
Chanh
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The sound of 1 vs 4 decks
I have a single board DAC similar to dwjames with every upgrade I know of using a WaveIO source. I have not had the opportunity to hear a 4+DAC here in the USA. The more "filled in soundstage" was evident before I completed all my upgrades. The soundstage can be so wide it can sometimes project sound sources from the side of me. I also experience space/silence between the voices and instruments while at the same time I can sometimes hear the size and shape of the instruments. IMO this is a more correct and satisfying musical presentation. Of course the rest of your music system has to be very good to experience all of this.
I recommend that the NooB start with a single DAC and use connector pins between the main board and the DAC board to make upgrades and changes much easier. Each change will need about 2 weeks of 24/7 play time for proper evaluation. I recommend that the first built include the consensus affordable upgrades such as capacitors, Rload resistors, and CCS. From there it is a matter of musical taste and $$$.
Will the new DSD have to be stacked? Is the output differential or single-ended? Is the output signal at an elevated voltage (like the Rload) or at signal ground? I would also like one of the first DSD boards.
I have a single board DAC similar to dwjames with every upgrade I know of using a WaveIO source. I have not had the opportunity to hear a 4+DAC here in the USA. The more "filled in soundstage" was evident before I completed all my upgrades. The soundstage can be so wide it can sometimes project sound sources from the side of me. I also experience space/silence between the voices and instruments while at the same time I can sometimes hear the size and shape of the instruments. IMO this is a more correct and satisfying musical presentation. Of course the rest of your music system has to be very good to experience all of this.
I recommend that the NooB start with a single DAC and use connector pins between the main board and the DAC board to make upgrades and changes much easier. Each change will need about 2 weeks of 24/7 play time for proper evaluation. I recommend that the first built include the consensus affordable upgrades such as capacitors, Rload resistors, and CCS. From there it is a matter of musical taste and $$$.
Will the new DSD have to be stacked? Is the output differential or single-ended? Is the output signal at an elevated voltage (like the Rload) or at signal ground? I would also like one of the first DSD boards.
Please give some evidence for this view. Buffalo dac and many others use exactly this topology.
I followed their lead. Your view seems emotional rather than rational. Did you try separate analogue and digital supplies with common ground?
I am talking about separate unregulated psus for analogue and digital supplies but sharing a common earth. In my case these use separate windings from the same tx.Local decoupling is essential after and before the regulator and this arrangement of separate supplies is done by Buffalo and Audio Note among others. High frequency interference is locally decoupled and in any event would not get past the regulators (shunt or otherwise) in terms of return journey. But as I've said, this was determined after listening evaluation.
If you try it and disagree, that's absolutely fine: that's audio. Just don't denigrate with pseudo theory or suppositions.
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It's a shame that the chip format is so teeny, cos this type of thing with smd caps across the pins would probably work well
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I had a quick look and I think you could do it with 0402 size smd caps, but you'd need a way of holding them in the exact perfect place and to use hot air I guess.
Who's brave enough? 🙂
Hi Paul,
I was discussing this with Stefan, because after I fitted the 2SK208o ccs in the pin20 in my 1 deck it sounded great. when comparing to Stefan's 4 deck, they certainly sounded different, and I would describe the 4 deck as sounding fuller and richer, but I didn't feel that I was losing any detail with my 1 deck. Mine wasn't filling out the soundstage in the same way. the individual instruments were all present and with great clarity and very clear separation and positioning and a nice wide soundstage, but with a lot of open space in between instruments or performers. The 4 deck had all the same detail, but this space in the soundstage between stuff was kind of filled out with more sound. I'm not great at describing this and I found it tricky to define exactly the difference, but that was my impression. As to which is more accurately reproducing the original recording, I'm not certain. Was mine missing some of the ambient detail in the recording or was the 4 deck adding a little? I don't know.
I'm not in any rush to add extra decks to mine though. I really like the clean and precise nature of it and it works well with my valve amps.
I don't understand why people don't record the output of a dac onto a computer and compare the waveform with the original sound file that was played to create a difference file in order to check for accuracy of reproduction. Anyone know a reason why that doesn't work as a method?[/QUOTE]
Hi James, and Carlsor
Many thanks for your comments, it helps me to make a choice. I will start with one full modified deck and see how long I can stay at that.
I am wondering if your SQ also differs with the cinemags or straight out from pos and neg to RCA. I myself have the impression that the cinemags does fill in the music and delivers wider stage whereas the straight out is less full, but somehow more delicate.
Paul
I was discussing this with Stefan, because after I fitted the 2SK208o ccs in the pin20 in my 1 deck it sounded great. when comparing to Stefan's 4 deck, they certainly sounded different, and I would describe the 4 deck as sounding fuller and richer, but I didn't feel that I was losing any detail with my 1 deck. Mine wasn't filling out the soundstage in the same way. the individual instruments were all present and with great clarity and very clear separation and positioning and a nice wide soundstage, but with a lot of open space in between instruments or performers. The 4 deck had all the same detail, but this space in the soundstage between stuff was kind of filled out with more sound. I'm not great at describing this and I found it tricky to define exactly the difference, but that was my impression. As to which is more accurately reproducing the original recording, I'm not certain. Was mine missing some of the ambient detail in the recording or was the 4 deck adding a little? I don't know.
I'm not in any rush to add extra decks to mine though. I really like the clean and precise nature of it and it works well with my valve amps.
I don't understand why people don't record the output of a dac onto a computer and compare the waveform with the original sound file that was played to create a difference file in order to check for accuracy of reproduction. Anyone know a reason why that doesn't work as a method?[/QUOTE]
Hi James, and Carlsor
Many thanks for your comments, it helps me to make a choice. I will start with one full modified deck and see how long I can stay at that.
I am wondering if your SQ also differs with the cinemags or straight out from pos and neg to RCA. I myself have the impression that the cinemags does fill in the music and delivers wider stage whereas the straight out is less full, but somehow more delicate.
Paul
Looking for some advice for the unregulated PSU please, the output is just over 19vdc , how do I dial this down, thanks
Thee are the components I am using and the psu design
der:
2 x (ELNAS-187) - 2200uF 25V Elna Silmic Electrolytic Capacitor -
2 x (MLGOAG-040) - 3300uF 63V Mundorf MLytic AG Electrolytic Capacitor -
2 x (ELNAS-179) - 1000uF 25V Elna Silmic II Electrolytic Capacitor -
100R 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor -
http://i58.tinypic.com/apjvw3.jpg
Thee are the components I am using and the psu design
der:
2 x (ELNAS-187) - 2200uF 25V Elna Silmic Electrolytic Capacitor -
2 x (MLGOAG-040) - 3300uF 63V Mundorf MLytic AG Electrolytic Capacitor -
2 x (ELNAS-179) - 1000uF 25V Elna Silmic II Electrolytic Capacitor -
100R 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor -
http://i58.tinypic.com/apjvw3.jpg
change it into choke input
Hello,
Change into a choke input . Just put the 50 volts where the 2200mf are now. Always take care that there is a bleeder so it will work as a choke input.
Greetings, Edward
Hello,
Change into a choke input . Just put the 50 volts where the 2200mf are now. Always take care that there is a bleeder so it will work as a choke input.
Greetings, Edward