Hello,
Many thanks to Doede for doing the experiments.
Som probably the Aurender users can continue to do so. Happily because it has a rather high price.
Now we need to make a what to buy list for the people who will continue to use the Wave IO .
People can decide themselves if they wanna change some of the power supply parts in this list. It seems some upgrades can be made.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s happily i have some space and an easy way to mount some extra parts to create the shortest connections where they are needed
Many thanks to Doede for doing the experiments.
Som probably the Aurender users can continue to do so. Happily because it has a rather high price.
Now we need to make a what to buy list for the people who will continue to use the Wave IO .
People can decide themselves if they wanna change some of the power supply parts in this list. It seems some upgrades can be made.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s happily i have some space and an easy way to mount some extra parts to create the shortest connections where they are needed
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no need, you can do it like this (see below image)
may be…. in a future next design update I can add them of course… crossed my mind indeed.
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Has anyone had the chance to compare fifopi with other reclockers, like the TP cronus? I'm quite happy with cronus and how that works, but will of course be interested in even better sound if possible ...I'm interested to see how the new 'well tempered' project is going as well ...
I have been using Allo kali and isolator on rpi and cronus/hermes on beagle bone black, running as master clock. Both were i2s connected to the dddac (modified the spdif input on the mother board)
The cronus was a tad better than the kali. The problem with this system was that the software development (and hardware) of rpi did take over in quality and I switched to the rpi with moode audio on the kali.
Than the fifopi entered my streamer, this was fairly comparable to the kali-isolator in the basic configuration.
The advantage of fifopi is that it is easy to tweak; I bypassed the local ldo’s and used a battery power supply, this made the result better than the kali. Than I experimented with the well tempered clock and this put the fifopi far ahead of the kail and cronus.
After reading Doede’s observations, I have a question. I have a simple set-up with the two standard power supplies, two decks (the Tent version) and cinemags. I use a RPI with the Allo Isolator and the DigiBerry connected to the I2S inputs (I used the instructions from the audio creative website). The RPI is powerd by the 5V power supply, the isolator by the 12V supply using a 47 Ohm resistor and an elco to get ~8V. I realy love the DDDAC! It is my first DIY project, so I am pretty proud that it works and it sounds so good (although the credits for the latter are for someone else J)
I would like to switch to the FiFoPi. I wonder what is the best way to power the FiFoPi? Doede showed his setup here:
However, since Doede indicates that does not hear a difference on the quality of the I2S input for the FiFoPi, feeding the RPI from the 5V seems overkill? Or should I follow the scheme and use the 5V for the RPI and the 12V for both DAC and FiFoPi? Note that I do not use the waveio
And also interested in the cables that can be used to connect the FiFoPi to the DAC board.
I would like to switch to the FiFoPi. I wonder what is the best way to power the FiFoPi? Doede showed his setup here:
mmm, see the image in the original post.
However, since Doede indicates that does not hear a difference on the quality of the I2S input for the FiFoPi, feeding the RPI from the 5V seems overkill? Or should I follow the scheme and use the 5V for the RPI and the 12V for both DAC and FiFoPi? Note that I do not use the waveio
And also interested in the cables that can be used to connect the FiFoPi to the DAC board.
Thank you for your experiments and report Doede! However, let's not go too far.
You found that FiFoPi leveled the playing field between a Raspberry Pi and your Aurender, both running Linux. I certainly trust your ears on anything--they gave us this amazing DAC! But that's the extent of the experiment. Other well-customized, well-powered computer servers can outperform those sources by a good margin.
I will eventually be testing my Intel NUC/Windows Server 2019 Core/Audiophile Optimizer/JRiver player with Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocking into WaveIO against the Allo USBridge Signature running JRiver idPi (Linux). I don't care which one sounds better; the price difference is enormous but I just want the best sound in absolute terms. However, based on my computer audio experience, it is extremely unlikely that they will sound the same after FiFoPi reclocking.
(I will be reporting back here on several DDDAC experiments throughout this year. Currently waiting for parts to arrive.)
Over the years there have been many candidates for the silver bullet reclocking product that makes everything upstream irrelevant. It has never before been so...
This is not my DAC, I "borrowed" the picture from Dick. it is New Class-D regulator
Thank you for your experiments and report Doede! However, let's not go too far.
You found that FiFoPi leveled the playing field between a Raspberry Pi and your Aurender, both running Linux. I certainly trust your ears on anything--they gave us this amazing DAC! But that's the extent of the experiment. Other well-customized, well-powered computer servers can outperform those sources by a good margin.
I will eventually be testing my Intel NUC/Windows Server 2019 Core/Audiophile Optimizer/JRiver player with Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocking into WaveIO against the Allo USBridge Signature running JRiver idPi (Linux). I don't care which one sounds better; the price difference is enormous but I just want the best sound in absolute terms. However, based on my computer audio experience, it is extremely unlikely that they will sound the same after FiFoPi reclocking.
(I will be reporting back here on several DDDAC experiments throughout this year. Currently waiting for parts to arrive.)
Over the years there have been many candidates for the silver bullet reclocking product that makes everything upstream irrelevant. It has never before been so...
Looking forward to your report back - It is always good to have people doing some serious testing and comparing and then sharing with the DIY community!
5 Volt supply for the PI
my 2 cents here, as there has been several posts and questions about this theme.
I deliberately took a simple 5V/4A SMPS for the PI for the following four reasons:
1. I tested the SMPS (5V/4A) and was surprised how little ripple and noise it produced under load. The noise was only 10dB - 15dB more than a LF50. I bought a few of them and they were NOT all the same (as good) - but (luckily?) found one who was "clean enough" for me.
2. The whole PI computer-part of things stays before the isolated part of the FIFOPI and the DDDAC. So I was not fearing anything with bad ground or so
3. The PI makes 3,3Volt for the on board logic from the 5 Volt supply - guess what? It does it with a SMPS chip………
4. So I compared the Noise spectrum and levels of the 5V SMPS and the 3,3V coming from the Pi board…. and the 3,3V had 15dB more noise compared to the input voltage - I concluded, why put high end 5 volt in the PI, when it than immediately is converted in a noisy 3,3Volt with a SMPS chip? (assuming the whole discussion is on feeding the PI with clean power to avoid noise on the PI board)
as said, no direct comparisons in real A-B, but somehow I did not expect anything big out of this. So I focused on other things first - see my earlier tests somehow supports this I think
my 2 cents here, as there has been several posts and questions about this theme.
I deliberately took a simple 5V/4A SMPS for the PI for the following four reasons:
1. I tested the SMPS (5V/4A) and was surprised how little ripple and noise it produced under load. The noise was only 10dB - 15dB more than a LF50. I bought a few of them and they were NOT all the same (as good) - but (luckily?) found one who was "clean enough" for me.
2. The whole PI computer-part of things stays before the isolated part of the FIFOPI and the DDDAC. So I was not fearing anything with bad ground or so
3. The PI makes 3,3Volt for the on board logic from the 5 Volt supply - guess what? It does it with a SMPS chip………
4. So I compared the Noise spectrum and levels of the 5V SMPS and the 3,3V coming from the Pi board…. and the 3,3V had 15dB more noise compared to the input voltage - I concluded, why put high end 5 volt in the PI, when it than immediately is converted in a noisy 3,3Volt with a SMPS chip? (assuming the whole discussion is on feeding the PI with clean power to avoid noise on the PI board)
as said, no direct comparisons in real A-B, but somehow I did not expect anything big out of this. So I focused on other things first - see my earlier tests somehow supports this I think
Hi,
so after the build of my new PSU and the exchange of the chip i fried, I did some more testing and the sound certainly improved. I couldn't really test with and without the 74vhct244 chip as my Kali stopped working too which I didn't check first so i build everything back to standard for error checking.
With the new PSU the DDDAC has certainly gained quality. It differs from the >10k € DAC, which we used as reference while testing, more in character than in sound quality i'd guess. But I hope I can get the DDDAC to better it with better clocks in the future, as I used Ian's Fifopi with the standard clocks.
PS:
Thanks again to Doede for sending me the new chips
And thanks to smooth dancer for helping me on the PSU design
PSU:
so after the build of my new PSU and the exchange of the chip i fried, I did some more testing and the sound certainly improved. I couldn't really test with and without the 74vhct244 chip as my Kali stopped working too which I didn't check first so i build everything back to standard for error checking.
With the new PSU the DDDAC has certainly gained quality. It differs from the >10k € DAC, which we used as reference while testing, more in character than in sound quality i'd guess. But I hope I can get the DDDAC to better it with better clocks in the future, as I used Ian's Fifopi with the standard clocks.
PS:
Thanks again to Doede for sending me the new chips
And thanks to smooth dancer for helping me on the PSU design
PSU:
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You have pointed directly on the achilles heel of the rpi for audio. This is the reason that there are ps hats that can be used on an rpi with modifications to by pass the local ldo’s. I wanted to try this but before I got around buying such a hat Allo appeared with the USBridge signature and solved all our problems with a nice ps layout and using the rpi compute module so we can use all the rpi distro’s we are used to.
The USBridge sig. with the fifopi and good power supply is very hard to beat!
Regards,
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So using the stock dddac 5v psu to power the usbridge signature and using the main board 5v to power fifopi would be a good solution? I am planning on upgrading but have not read a lot about the usbridge signature vs normal rpi3. It does make sense when reading through Doedes comments re smps on rpi3, however if it's audible?
Yet another test
Quick one.... I have a very high quality USB to SPDIF converter still lying around.
So I connected the usb input from this board to to PI usb output and grouped this new zone with the fifopi zone in ROON for synchronized music playing output .
Of course the spdif was connected to the DDDAC spdif input.
So now I could compare a good quality unclocked I2S (on board spdif receiver to I2S converter on the DDDAc main board) with the reclocked output from the FIFOPI. The PI streamer is basically the same primary source for both. Split into reclocked fifopi I2S and another I2S coming from the dddac spdif to I2S converter
So basically the same as what I did with the WaveIO....
And indeed, compared both spdif and fifopi and I had back the difference in sound as I had in the earlier tests between fifopi and WaveIO directly connected to the DDDAC.
You hear it immediately. Now I plugged the usb cable from the spdif receiver back to the WaveIO Which is now reclocked as you remember, and indeed, I could again not hear any difference anymore
So again a kind of different way to confirm my observations on reclocked and unclocked signals....
Quick one.... I have a very high quality USB to SPDIF converter still lying around.
So I connected the usb input from this board to to PI usb output and grouped this new zone with the fifopi zone in ROON for synchronized music playing output .
Of course the spdif was connected to the DDDAC spdif input.
So now I could compare a good quality unclocked I2S (on board spdif receiver to I2S converter on the DDDAc main board) with the reclocked output from the FIFOPI. The PI streamer is basically the same primary source for both. Split into reclocked fifopi I2S and another I2S coming from the dddac spdif to I2S converter
So basically the same as what I did with the WaveIO....
And indeed, compared both spdif and fifopi and I had back the difference in sound as I had in the earlier tests between fifopi and WaveIO directly connected to the DDDAC.
You hear it immediately. Now I plugged the usb cable from the spdif receiver back to the WaveIO Which is now reclocked as you remember, and indeed, I could again not hear any difference anymore
So again a kind of different way to confirm my observations on reclocked and unclocked signals....
It definitely is Audible! I have used all kind of streamers: pc, Alix board, beagle bone black, raspberry pi and usbridge. The usbridge is the best sounding solution and very flexible due to the rpi compatibility.
Of course it depends on your audio set how audible this is in your situation.