thanks for your interest in the DDDACseems you are picking a very nice set up - Sowters are not "cheap" - you can send me an email for current price - Still people spend similar amounts on Capacitors, Interlinks and Power cables
Sounds good, mail sent
As i just got my allo digione board back i have to figure out how to get the i2s from this board, if I can do this, i'll stick with the digione.
I have no idea about the Kali board you have to count on @Brumjam to tell you how he did it (I was just refering to his post)
What type of capacitors were you using before you bought the Sowters? Have you firmly settled on transformers, or you have second thoughts? It would be interesting to find out what you think about the differences in sound, now that you spent some time with transformers and managed to give them a good run (listen)...
Hi.
I tried different capacitors before. Mundorf SIO and SGO, Duelund VSF (it was loudspeaker type so not optimal), and russian K75-10. All of them have their virtues, but I liked K75-10 best. I suspect I had liked Jupiter and Duelund for electronics, but I never tried them.
The transformers will stay. Much more of everything. But, they are more revealing and I think if I put a thinner sounding analytical amplifier in the chain, it would be too much. Then it would be better with some PIO caps to smoothen things out.
I have chokes and transformers for experimenting with PSU. I was thinking of raw LCL or replace the R-C-R-fuse-C network on the original PSU with LCL.
Can you tell a little bit about your findings regarding DDDAC 12V PSU?
Hello Norway,
There are not many chokes you can use for choke input for the DDDAC with 4 boards because it will have to handle 1A . Lundahl has the LL2733 that can take 1,7A and has 0,4 Henry. They can make it with smaller airgap so it can take less current but Henry will go up. Or you can use the one i use the LL2771 which can take 1A and has 3 Henry.
The LL2733 with 1A rating will have around 0,6 Henry. The LL2771 is about 40 % up in price compared to the LL27733 but the difference between 600 mH or 3000mH is big!!
It is common practice to use a so called bleeder resistor to create a minimum current through the choke . The higher the H the less current you need to bleed which is a good.
The LL2771 as choke input will create a big voltage drop so you need a transformer with quiet some voltage. I used a Lundahl heater transformer which had just a lot of 6,3 volts that i could put in series.
You could make a test set up with a 40 volt transformer and use a variac to find out the right voltage you need. Maybe i mentioned the voltage here in this thread or you can use psud. Depending on the diodes you will use ( i use the SBYV28 range) and if you will make it an LCLC ( which i use) you will probably need a 30 volt transformer. Split bobbin from Triad can deliver 1,6A sufficient for a choke input for sure!!!
Greetings, Eduard
There are not many chokes you can use for choke input for the DDDAC with 4 boards because it will have to handle 1A . Lundahl has the LL2733 that can take 1,7A and has 0,4 Henry. They can make it with smaller airgap so it can take less current but Henry will go up. Or you can use the one i use the LL2771 which can take 1A and has 3 Henry.
The LL2733 with 1A rating will have around 0,6 Henry. The LL2771 is about 40 % up in price compared to the LL27733 but the difference between 600 mH or 3000mH is big!!
It is common practice to use a so called bleeder resistor to create a minimum current through the choke . The higher the H the less current you need to bleed which is a good.
The LL2771 as choke input will create a big voltage drop so you need a transformer with quiet some voltage. I used a Lundahl heater transformer which had just a lot of 6,3 volts that i could put in series.
You could make a test set up with a 40 volt transformer and use a variac to find out the right voltage you need. Maybe i mentioned the voltage here in this thread or you can use psud. Depending on the diodes you will use ( i use the SBYV28 range) and if you will make it an LCLC ( which i use) you will probably need a 30 volt transformer. Split bobbin from Triad can deliver 1,6A sufficient for a choke input for sure!!!
Greetings, Eduard
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Hello Eduard,
Thank´s for sharing your experience:-D
I have a nice transformer with variable secondaries up to 20V in 1V steps, and LL2733.
May I ask what PSU configurations you have tried out, and what your results are?
I mean raw LCLC, LCL-reg etc.
Hello,
I started with a 500VA R core LCLC giving around 12 volt output fed directly into the main print where the 7810 regulators are. Both chokes were LL2733. The first one 544mH with 1,25A current rating the second one 700mH with 0,9 A rating. The LL2733 can take that because there is not much ripple left after the the first LC.
Then i got a Lundahl transformer with 8 6,3 volts windings because i didnt know about the Triad yet. I think Lundahl 160VA
BUT i got the LL2771 3Henry to replace the first LL2733. Now i have got an LCLCLC. I had to add an LL1694 to create some extra voltage drop. Rather be safe than sorry. I didnt connect it yet because i have other things to finish but Doede did simulate the supply and says the attenuation of 100 hertz is higher than 200 db.
Greetings, eduard
P.s If have used choke input all over my gear and i am sure that getting an LL2771 with a small transformer ( i think 30 volts will be enough but you can simulate or try with a variac. I think with the 500VA i put 2*21volts in parallel and that was barely enough for the LL2733. In the photo you can see the the LL2771 inside my DDDAC and the LL2733 in front. Doede was surprised so see these tiny diodes but that is possible because the choke causes a nice steady current draw!!!
I started with a 500VA R core LCLC giving around 12 volt output fed directly into the main print where the 7810 regulators are. Both chokes were LL2733. The first one 544mH with 1,25A current rating the second one 700mH with 0,9 A rating. The LL2733 can take that because there is not much ripple left after the the first LC.
Then i got a Lundahl transformer with 8 6,3 volts windings because i didnt know about the Triad yet. I think Lundahl 160VA
BUT i got the LL2771 3Henry to replace the first LL2733. Now i have got an LCLCLC. I had to add an LL1694 to create some extra voltage drop. Rather be safe than sorry. I didnt connect it yet because i have other things to finish but Doede did simulate the supply and says the attenuation of 100 hertz is higher than 200 db.
Greetings, eduard
P.s If have used choke input all over my gear and i am sure that getting an LL2771 with a small transformer ( i think 30 volts will be enough but you can simulate or try with a variac. I think with the 500VA i put 2*21volts in parallel and that was barely enough for the LL2733. In the photo you can see the the LL2771 inside my DDDAC and the LL2733 in front. Doede was surprised so see these tiny diodes but that is possible because the choke causes a nice steady current draw!!!
Hi thanks for all the info! Now you pushed me down the DIY PSU route (which is big
) im already working with the PSUD ^^I have a sbooster PSU with the ultra upgrade, which seems to have a good reputation (I guess the Ultra upgrade is some kind of chocke filter too but thats just a wild guess, i didnt look into it..)
When i get my DDDAC running (atm I'm still making my parts-list for that) i will upgrade to the sowters, then going from Digione - SPDIF to the isolator - Kali recklocker - i²s (just to get rid of the unnecessary(?) conversion steps) and then i'll attack the PSU
Thanks for the choke tipp, I'd really like to build one with a rectifier tube and i would start with one for the Kali (though I'm not sure if this makes sense. First of all bc the Kali needs only 5V but quite some current as far as i read until now, and second I'm not sure if the Kali will profit so much from it or if it would be better to swap the sBooster for a 12V DIY choke PSU)
Advice is very very welcome
nvm, just found it on allos website: 100mA
Seems way more reasonable, than what I had in the back of my mind xD
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Hello,
On the little boards containing the Tent shunts Doede added a 7810 regulator to act as '' preregulation ' AND to protect the shunt for to high input voltage which will heat up the shunt to much.
SOME people got nice reults by ommiting the 7810. IF your AC from the wall is perfect it could work. But i dont wanna take the risk because my DDDAC is on all the time.
Better use a bleeder to assure you have the minimum current. The higher the Henry the less current you need to bleed.
With 100 mA there are loads of chokes available i would just use diodes like the SBYV28
My idea is that using a choke input is the way to go. Take care that you get a transformer with the right ac output.
Greetings, eduard
On the little boards containing the Tent shunts Doede added a 7810 regulator to act as '' preregulation ' AND to protect the shunt for to high input voltage which will heat up the shunt to much.
SOME people got nice reults by ommiting the 7810. IF your AC from the wall is perfect it could work. But i dont wanna take the risk because my DDDAC is on all the time.
Better use a bleeder to assure you have the minimum current. The higher the Henry the less current you need to bleed.
With 100 mA there are loads of chokes available i would just use diodes like the SBYV28
My idea is that using a choke input is the way to go. Take care that you get a transformer with the right ac output.
Greetings, eduard
Sounds good, mail sent
As i just got my allo digione board back i have to figure out how to get the i2s from this board, if I can do this, i'll stick with the digione.
I have no idea about the Kali board you have to count on @Brumjam to tell you how he did it (I was just refering to his post)
The SDA clocks were purchased separately. I removed the original NDK clocks and replaced them with the SDA versions. Make sure you buy the same 22 and 24mhz versions, otherwise your music will sound like Mickey Mouse on helium.
Hi thanks for all the info! Now you pushed me down the DIY PSU route (which is big
I have a sbooster PSU with the ultra upgrade, which seems to have a good reputation (I guess the Ultra upgrade is some kind of chocke filter too but thats just a wild guess, i didnt look into it..)
When i get my DDDAC running (atm I'm still making my parts-list for that) i will upgrade to the sowters, then going from Digione - SPDIF to the isolator - Kali recklocker - i²s (just to get rid of the unnecessary(?) conversion steps) and then i'll attack the PSU
Thanks for the choke tipp, I'd really like to build one with a rectifier tube and i would start with one for the Kali (though I'm not sure if this makes sense. First of all bc the Kali needs only 5V but quite some current as far as i read until now, and second I'm not sure if the Kali will profit so much from it or if it would be better to swap the sBooster for a 12V DIY choke PSU)
Advice is very very welcome
PSU with tube rectifier(s). That sounds very interesting. But what tubes would you use to get the required 1.5A/12V?
I didnt think much of it bc i thought there are tube rectified psu dac's (like the lampi or the border patrol and they probably have a similiar current draw as the dddac) so there has to be a tube for the job -- Seems I was wrong -- . So i checked and the Border Patrol DAC has a hybrid PSU (with a ez80), and the lampi uses something like a 5u4G so I guess it's the rectifier tube in the PSU which is just for the output stage and not for the DAC :/
Perhaps I'll start a thread in the power supply section and see if someone there can give e a push in the right direction. Anyway if I can find a good solution I'll report back
I didnt think much of it bc i thought there are tube rectified psu dac's (like the lampi or the border patrol and they probably have a similiar current draw as the dddac) so there has to be a tube for the job -- Seems I was wrong -- . So i checked and the Border Patrol DAC has a hybrid PSU (with a ez80), and the lampi uses something like a 5u4G so I guess it's the rectifier tube in the PSU which is just for the output stage and not for the DAC :/
Perhaps I'll start a thread in the power supply section and see if someone there can give e a push in the right direction. Anyway if I can find a good solution I'll report back
Goody
Hello,
I think choosing the right power transformer ( like the split bobbin from Triad), then a nice set of diodes and a big choke input and 75% of the improvements to be made on the power supply are done so to say.
Because i am '' working '' on a LCLCRC i started rereading some French publications written by Rinaldo Bassi twenty years ago. He is well known electronic engineer but only in French speaking countries.
Rereading after a long time sometimes makes things clearer than it was when i first read it.
What i like about chokes is that they have something that was understood long long time ago and most of the '' ideas '' remain the same. The radio designers handbook told us about chokes and everything published at a later date repeated the information and added some more.
Give it a try. greetings, eduard
I think choosing the right power transformer ( like the split bobbin from Triad), then a nice set of diodes and a big choke input and 75% of the improvements to be made on the power supply are done so to say.
Because i am '' working '' on a LCLCRC i started rereading some French publications written by Rinaldo Bassi twenty years ago. He is well known electronic engineer but only in French speaking countries.
Rereading after a long time sometimes makes things clearer than it was when i first read it.
What i like about chokes is that they have something that was understood long long time ago and most of the '' ideas '' remain the same. The radio designers handbook told us about chokes and everything published at a later date repeated the information and added some more.
Give it a try. greetings, eduard
Hello,
Anyone willing to start a thread using DDDAC with no USB '' source '' but one that uses the I2S connection? Audio Creative is selling the berry streamer and the Roon nucleus.
Of course the audio creative website could be a little biased because they are in for the money.
This set up will skip the wave IO but then you need to get some small circuits which also need a nice power supply. BUT in the end it will still be cheaper than the Aurender.
Photo is my latest tube line pre amp which needs to be finished before judging my bigger choke input DDDAC power supply.
Someone here was looking for some '' tube decoration '' on his DDDAC. you could use a VR tube. Doesnt need a heater just some high voltage and gives a nice glow.
Greetings, eduard
Anyone willing to start a thread using DDDAC with no USB '' source '' but one that uses the I2S connection? Audio Creative is selling the berry streamer and the Roon nucleus.
Of course the audio creative website could be a little biased because they are in for the money.
This set up will skip the wave IO but then you need to get some small circuits which also need a nice power supply. BUT in the end it will still be cheaper than the Aurender.
Photo is my latest tube line pre amp which needs to be finished before judging my bigger choke input DDDAC power supply.
Someone here was looking for some '' tube decoration '' on his DDDAC. you could use a VR tube. Doesnt need a heater just some high voltage and gives a nice glow.
Greetings, eduard
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I plan on going from the Kali with i2s instead of Hifiberry(just bc I prefer allo, I think they make great products). It seems very straight forward, the WaveIO outputs a i2s signal to the mainboard to, so you can just replace it with a quality i2s signal from a streamer like from a rpi with Kali or Hifiberry. I don’t know how the WaveIO compares to the Hifiberry or Kali jitter wise but I think it’s nice to skip the conversion to usb audio (like in the aurender) and then back from usb to i2s (in the WaveIO).
Psu wise I’m now looking to build a solid state choke, like you did, thanks again for the input (I’m just looking into the math). Tube rectifiers just don’t fit in this low volt field (did a thread in the psu section and although it’s possible it leads to nonsense designs).
I was just looking into vr tubes, but the problem seems that they have a very low maximum current (<40mA max), so not suitable for the the 5v 100mA psu i need for the Kali, and even worse for the DDDAC itself with 12v 1A.
Hello,
I think that for power supplies from 5 to 15 volts dc and higher currents it is much easier to stick with some soild state diodes, a nice big input choke . So an LCRC or LCRC with a resistor in parallel to take care of the minimum current. After these parts you can add some kind of regulation circuit like the Belleson and there many more available. Some require a higher voltage drop.
I wonder when using a '' properly designed '' choke input the sonic impact of the regulation that is behind the LCRC/LCLC stage is less when there is less garbage to filter?
If i remember well i needed two power supplies for the upgrade to the berrystreamer/Roon nucleus combo. One very similar to the wave IO supply and one taking around 400 mA. I ordered two LL2771 some time ago . one that can take 200 mA and the other one 500 mA. This choke has more than 8 times the weight of the power transformer. But the choke will give the transformer a much easier life. Sometimes you will see on old transformers the specs showing that with choke input it can deliver much more current.
Greetings, eduard
I think that for power supplies from 5 to 15 volts dc and higher currents it is much easier to stick with some soild state diodes, a nice big input choke . So an LCRC or LCRC with a resistor in parallel to take care of the minimum current. After these parts you can add some kind of regulation circuit like the Belleson and there many more available. Some require a higher voltage drop.
I wonder when using a '' properly designed '' choke input the sonic impact of the regulation that is behind the LCRC/LCLC stage is less when there is less garbage to filter?
If i remember well i needed two power supplies for the upgrade to the berrystreamer/Roon nucleus combo. One very similar to the wave IO supply and one taking around 400 mA. I ordered two LL2771 some time ago . one that can take 200 mA and the other one 500 mA. This choke has more than 8 times the weight of the power transformer. But the choke will give the transformer a much easier life. Sometimes you will see on old transformers the specs showing that with choke input it can deliver much more current.
Greetings, eduard
