A NOS 192/24 DAC with the PCM1794 (and WaveIO USB input)

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#5,741
eduard said:
Hello,
I did not want to diy a cable for this connection to afraid to ruin the Aurender and/or the DDDAC. Greetings, Ed
Next thing i wanna try is using some kind of transformer to '' isolate '' the Aurender and? the DDDAC from the rest of my gear.
greetings, Eduard
Click to expand...


The Aurender already has a really good design for the USB output so interesting to see if it will make a difference
 
#5,743
Supersurfer said:
In theory I2S is superior to spdif because it has a separate bit and word clock resulting in much lower jitter.

However if a streamer board like odroid or rpi is connected directly with I2S you will pollute the ground of the dac with the ground noise of the streamer and if no reclocking is used the jitter will be higher because of the bad clock quality of these boards. Note that a computer does not need an accurate clock because it mostly does not have a real time decoding task.

My wave io was surpassed a long time ago by a rpi with acko reclocker and isolator board.

Now I use a beagle bone black with a real master clock and isolation from a cronos-hermes board from twisted pear. This is the best setup I have ever used and I assume in the near future nothing will be able to better this setup!

Next up is experimenting with rpi-kali reclocker, I expect good quality but not at the level of the bbb.
Click to expand...
Hi Supersurfer!
Would you mind explaining what you mean with 'real master clock'? Is this what you get when you use hermes/cronus (with BBB), or is it something else? I'm looking forward myself to get a hold on hermes/cronus for BBB as soon as they are back in stock! I'm already really happy with the sound as it is straight out from BBB (to waveio), but I believe it will be even better with what I hope is a 'real master clock' ... 🙂
 
#5,744
Clock...

Supersurfer said:
In theory I2S is superior to spdif because it has a separate bit and word clock resulting in much lower jitter.

However if a streamer board like odroid or rpi is connected directly with I2S you will pollute the ground of the dac with the ground noise of the streamer and if no reclocking is used the jitter will be higher because of the bad clock quality of these boards. Note that a computer does not need an accurate clock because it mostly does not have a real time decoding task.

My wave io was surpassed a long time ago by a rpi with acko reclocker and isolator board.

Now I use a beagle bone black with a real master clock and isolation from a cronos-hermes board from twisted pear. This is the best setup I have ever used and I assume in the near future nothing will be able to better this setup!

Next up is experimenting with rpi-kali reclocker, I expect good quality but not at the level of the bbb.
Click to expand...

Hello Stefan,

please have a look at my actual installation. Seems to be the same as Yours, but "upgraded" by Andrea Mori's TWTMC (the well tempered master clock), post #1240:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...hase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-124.html

It uses the "clapp"-oscillator. Latest development is the "driscoll"-oscillator, that even uses an oven for the crystals. Both are still available. Latest Group buy closes within the next days. Might be interesting for some members that are interested in extremely low jitter clocks for relatively small money.

Regards,
Hans
 
#5,745
Kanutus said:
Hi Supersurfer!
Would you mind explaining what you mean with 'real master clock'? Is this what you get when you use hermes/cronus (with BBB), or is it something else? I'm looking forward myself to get a hold on hermes/cronus for BBB as soon as they are back in stock! I'm already really happy with the sound as it is straight out from BBB (to waveio), but I believe it will be even better with what I hope is a 'real master clock' ... 🙂
Click to expand...

Hi,

The beagle bone black is capable of running from an external oscillator, all other arm and pc boards are not able to to this without serious modification of the board and oscillator itself. That is why there are so many re-clocking units available: you first put out a high jitter signal from these boards and then try to correct this with the re-clocker.
The bbb runs directly from the high quality clock of the cronos-hermes so it does not need any sub-optimal re-clocking. There is only one master clock in the complete chain in this way.

So you can expect big improvements from your current wave io setup.
 
#5,746
triodehunter said:
Hello Stefan,

please have a look at my actual installation. Seems to be the same as Yours, but "upgraded" by Andrea Mori's TWTMC (the well tempered master clock), post #1240:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...hase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-124.html

It uses the "clapp"-oscillator. Latest development is the "driscoll"-oscillator, that even uses an oven for the crystals. Both are still available. Latest Group buy closes within the next days. Might be interesting for some members that are interested in extremely low jitter clocks for relatively small money.

Regards,
Hans
Click to expand...

Hi Hans,

It looks the same and also different 😉 You are using one massive clock unit! I use a completely tweaked 4 stage dac board with unregulated choke power supply. If you filter my name in this thread you can see the mods I have done.

A bit off topic but is this board been jitter measured/compaired to the clocks on the cronos-hermes?
 
Last edited:
#5,747
Supersurfer said:
In theory I2S is superior to spdif because it has a separate bit and word clock resulting in much lower jitter.

However if a streamer board like odroid or rpi is connected directly with I2S you will pollute the ground of the dac with the ground noise of the streamer and if no reclocking is used the jitter will be higher because of the bad clock quality of these boards. Note that a computer does not need an accurate clock because it mostly does not have a real time decoding task.

My wave io was surpassed a long time ago by a rpi with acko reclocker and isolator board.

Now I use a beagle bone black with a real master clock and isolation from a cronos-hermes board from twisted pear. This is the best setup I have ever used and I assume in the near future nothing will be able to better this setup!

Next up is experimenting with rpi-kali reclocker, I expect good quality but not at the level of the bbb.
Click to expand...

Supersurfer said:
Hi,

The beagle bone black is capable of running from an external oscillator, all other arm and pc boards are not able to to this without serious modification of the board and oscillator itself. That is why there are so many re-clocking units available: you first put out a high jitter signal from these boards and then try to correct this with the re-clocker.
The bbb runs directly from the high quality clock of the cronos-hermes so it does not need any sub-optimal re-clocking. There is only one master clock in the complete chain in this way.

So you can expect big improvements from your current wave io setup.
Click to expand...

So glad to hear that! Thank you very much for your insight and clear answers 🙂
 
#5,749
I have built an upgraded 12 PSU using Doede kit as I needed more current for my 8 module DAC.

I am using a larger transformer, TIP 142 and a large heatsink of 2.7 degrees/watt and the heatsink is running just under 50 C

This is still rather hot in my view but is this acceptable and ok to run at this temperature as I don't have experience here?

I won't be leaving the DAC on all the time either.

I made this PSU as my choke PSU was causing distortion on high frequency female voices. Very strange and I would like to fix that but no idea what it is

The design is rectifier direct to a 1694 choke then to a 10,000 cap then to another 1694 then a 10,000 cap with a bleed resistor of 33 ohm
 
#5,750
SimonJ said:
I have built an upgraded 12 PSU using Doede kit as I needed more current for my 8 module DAC.

I am using a larger transformer, TIP 142 and a large heatsink of 2.7 degrees/watt and the heatsink is running just under 50 C

This is still rather hot in my view but is this acceptable and ok to run at this temperature as I don't have experience here?

I won't be leaving the DAC on all the time either.

I made this PSU as my choke PSU was causing distortion on high frequency female voices. Very strange and I would like to fix that but no idea what it is

The design is rectifier direct to a 1694 choke then to a 10,000 cap then to another 1694 then a 10,000 cap with a bleed resistor of 33 ohm
Click to expand...
How do you know the PSU causes the distortion of female voices? Do you have a scope to test the PSU voltage during playback of female voices (or some better defined test signals)?
 
#5,751
Supersurfer said:
Hi Hans,

It looks the same and also different 😉 You are using one massive clock unit! I use a completely tweaked 4 stage dac board with unregulated choke power supply. If you filter my name in this thread you can see the mods I have done.

A bit off topic but is this board been jitter measured/compaired to the clocks on the cronos-hermes?
Click to expand...

Hi Stefan,

I cannot save the pains for You to read through Andreas thread, but as far as I understand...
Andrea is trying to compare different well known oscillator circuits: clapp, driscoll, butler and pierce. Goal is to find the one that has lowest jitter, assuming that it will sound best. For testing equipment is not widely available and expensive, he will let them be tested, when finished.
Clock-jitter is an equivalent to phase noise. Clocks of equal frequency can be compared by their behaviour at 10Hz, 100 Hz, 1 kHz and so on. There are phase noise to jitter calculators.

Post #5 - clapp in a similar circuit than Andreas'
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ow-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator.html

Post #34 - crystek cchd-957
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-4.html

Post #1279 - driscoll with an unselected cheap crystal
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...hase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-128.html

Post #1280 - Listening Session
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...hase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-128.html

- end of being off topic. If You want, continue by pm...

Regards,
Hans
 

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#5,752
Hi Hans,

In theory the lowest noise clocks would be best but in the real world the implementation of these clocks can be useless if other design details spoil the low noise/low jitter performance. I am not saying this is the case in your setup but as the setup is definitely more complex there will be more to look after.

I might try this clock unit though😉
 
#5,753
mbrennwa said:
How do you know the PSU causes the distortion of female voices? Do you have a scope to test the PSU voltage during playback of female voices (or some better defined test signals)?
Click to expand...

I know by my ear as when I played the music tracks that were bad they are now OK with the upgraded Doede PSU.

OK i need to get a scope to check this correctly but I am not sure how to generate digital test signals to get say 20Khz out of the DAC to see if distorted or not.

As many use choke PSU here I was wondering if my design needs to be better?
 
#5,754
Hi Guys
I need help in solving the problem of no sound from WaveIO board. As I have music coming from the spdif output from a Philips CDPRO2LF CD drive, I assume my DDDAC is functional. ( I have a selector switch on the DDDAC for either spdif or USB)

My setup is really simple: one deck DAC (version 4.4) with version 4.1 mainboard; a pair of Cinemag transformers; DDDAC +12V PSU. I have bought the +5V PSU but left it out temporarily so the WaveIO board is powered by USB for simplicity. (I have moved the power selector on the WaveIO board so when it is plugged into a USB, the green LED is lit)
I have installed drivers from DDDAC site. I have tried several OSes,Win 10, Win XP and MAC OSX 10.11 El Capitan. All OSes could recognize the WaveIO board as Luckit 2.0 but there is no sound except hisses for this USB input. When selector is flipped "spdif", immediately music plays.
I used a digital scope to check the signals. I could see signals on the LR, Data and BCk lines to the DAC board (both right and left channel) when USB streaming is chosen as the input. So, presumably the selector switch IC 74VHCT244AM is ok because signals can be routed.

I am at a loss as to why I could not get music from USB streaming.
I have already got a new WaveIO board from Audio Creative and I think two defective boards are most unlikely. Can you guys help me?

Regards
Albert
 
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