A few Subwoofer questions.

[ahl395]

Hi everyone.
Im a bit of a noob/beginner and this is my first speaker building, so i need some advice.

I have a few questions with subwoofers.

First Question...
Would it be okay to have a Subwoofer and a Full/Extended Range speaker in the same enclosure? Or should they be seperate?

Second Question...
How does this subwoofer look? I know reviews are good but looking for another opinion.
Dayton SD315-88 12" Shielded DVC Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com

Third Question...
Looking at the hookups for this sub, HERE... it shows double the hookups of a regular speaker... how exactly do i hook that up and where do i plug all of those into?

Fourth Question...
Im planning on buying two of the subwoofers above, how does that compare for bass output to ONE of these...?
AudioSource PSW112 12" 175 Watt Front Firing Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com

Fifth Question...
How does the subwoofer above work exactly? it has its own amp in it? so then it doesnt need power from the receiver? how do i hook it up to the receiver, just regular speaker wire?

Last question...
Is pine wood ok to make a subwoofer enclosure out of?

 

[Cokewithlime]

First Question...
Would it be okay to have a Subwoofer and a Full/Extended Range speaker in the same enclosure? Or should they be seperate?

Generally not a good idea to put a FR driver in the same enclosure as a sub unless you made a separate internal box for the FR - besides you will most likely want the sub and the FR located and oriented in different parts of your room.

Second Question...
How does this subwoofer look? I know reviews are good but looking for another opinion.
Dayton SD315-88 12" Shielded DVC Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com

Its a decent candidate, not a huge amount of xmax(cone excursion) bit workable. What are your design targets, how are you going to use this sub, and also how are you going to drive it - with a plate amp you build into the enclosure or with a separate amp ?

Third Question...
Looking at the hookups for this sub, HERE... it shows double the hookups of a regular speaker... how exactly do i hook that up and where do i plug all of those into?

Each coil of that driver is 8 ohms - if you connect them in parallel ( plus to Plus and negative to negative ) then take the plus(s) and Negative(s) to the amp you will have an impedance of 4 ohms. Make sure any amp you choose for this sub can handle a 4 ohm load.

Fourth Question... Im planning on buying two of the subwoofers above, how does that compare for bass output to ONE of these...?
AudioSource PSW112 12" 175 Watt Front Firing Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com

Difficult question to answer with out knowing what amp you are going to use and what enclosure design you will choose.

Fifth Question...
How does the subwoofer above work exactly? it has its own amp in it? so then it doesnt need power from the receiver? how do i hook it up to the receiver, just regular speaker wire?

The AudioSource has a built in plate amp so you can just take the sub(LFE) line level output from your main amp (if it has it) and send that to the AudioSource line level sub input. Otherwise you can (using speaker wire) take the left and right speaker outputs from your main amp and put them into the the high level inputs of the AudioSource sub amp.

Last question...
Is pine wood ok to make a subwoofer enclosure out of?

Pine is a very poor choice for a sub enclosure, 3/4 inch MDF or baltic birch plywood both with internal bracing are recommended

 

[ahl395]

Generally not a good idea to put a FR driver in the same enclosure as a sub unless you made a separate internal box for the FR - besides you will most likely want the sub and the FR located and oriented in different parts of your room.

Ah okay, so if i put them in seperate enclosures do i need a crossover at all?

Its a decent candidate, not a huge amount of xmax(cone excursion) bit workable. What are your design targets, how are you going to use this sub, and also how are you going to drive it - with a plate amp you build into the enclosure or with a separate amp ?

Oh okay, do you have any other suggestions? that are around the same price?

I guess my design target would be to get the best bass output?

Im not sure how im driving it yet... ive been referred to plate amps, but i also have a 200W Receiver/Amp I can hook them up to. It would make it cheaper to go that route (ill explain my budget later). Although it is 2 Channel so im not sure if/how i could hook up the subs being that they have two hookups each. (im planning on buying two of these subs). Although i guess splicing would be the answer, im doing it now and have before without problems, even though i know its not "good"

Each coil of that driver is 8 ohms - if you connect them in parallel ( plus to Plus and negative to negative ) then take the plus(s) and Negative(s) to the amp you will have an impedance of 4 ohms. Make sure any amp you choose for this sub can handle a 4 ohm load.

Hmm... a little confused

My amp cant do 4Ohms, id rather hook it up at 8... so could i just hook up one of those sides? but if it has two voice coils wouldnt i only be using one that way?

Difficult question to answer with out knowing what amp you are going to use and what enclosure design you will choose.

I ran WinISD to find an enclosure, this is what it gave me...

W: 18 in
H: 28 in
D: 12 in
Vent: 4" hole

The AudioSource has a built in plate amp so you can just take the sub(LFE) line level output from your main amp (if it has it) and send that to the AudioSource line level sub input. Otherwise you can (using speaker wire) take the left and right speaker outputs from your main amp and put them into the the high level inputs of the AudioSource sub amp.

Ah okay... yeah i would have to use the speaker wire method.
It might be best for me because then ill still have the 200W from my amp to use elsewhere than the sub. Although this way i only get one sub, even though its more powerful than the other two alone, is it better? myself would tell me the two, lower (but higher combined) powered ones would be better.

Pine is a very poor choice for a sub enclosure, 3/4 inch MDF or baltic birch plywood both with internal bracing are recommended

[/QUOTE]

Ack, okay. thanks.




Otherwise... if you can help me change all of what im looking at, my overall budget is from $100-$150 for everything. My main concern is to have bass, so im looking at getting two subwoofers, as well as an Extended Range speaker. Those plus any plate amps or crossovers i need... not sure how much that will all be but im hoping under $150. the enclosures im building myself so they shouldnt be too much of a concern and should be cheap.

 

[godfrey]

The Audiosource powered sub is the cheap and easy option. Don't know how good it is, but it's everything you need in one box, ready to go.
btw, Here's more info on it: AudioSource :: Products :: Speakers

You could probably get better results with the Dayton drivers but then you'll need the drivers and an amp and a crossover and a box, plus lots of head-scratching about the design etc.

... my overall budget is from $100-$150 for everything...

Yikes! The powered sub is $200 on it's own...

Sounds like you already have a receiver you can use to power the main speakers? So your budget just has to cover the main wide-range speakers plus either a powered sub or passive subs and an amp for them?

 

[godfrey]

Just saw your second post now.

Here's an idea: If you connect the two voice coils of the Dayton in series instead of in parallel, you end up with 16 ohms instead of 4 ohms. That will be easy for your amp to drive. Also, if they're hooked up like that, they'll be able to take the full output from your 200W/8ohm amp without frying.

Maybe then you can use the 200W amp to power the full-rangers and the subs.

 

[ahl395]

The Audiosource powered sub is the cheap and easy option. Don't know how good it is, but it's everything you need in one box, ready to go.
btw, Here's more info on it: AudioSource :: Products :: Speakers

Hmm... well usually cheap easy and ready to go solutions arent the best

thanks for the link though, still lacking alot of specs that are listed on the other sub im looking at, so not much to compare by... so not sure i want to buy that.

You could probably get better results with the Dayton drivers but then you'll need the drivers and an amp and a crossover and a box, plus lots of head-scratching about the design etc.

Hmm okay, thats what i thought too. but if i use the amp i have it would cut down the price... and can you put me in the right direction with the crossovers, i really dont know much about them, what kind i need, or even if i DO need one. so can you help me with that? much appreciated

Yikes! The powered sub is $200 on it's own...

well the Audiosource sub is on sale for only $100 here...
AudioSource PSW112 12" 175 Watt Front Firing Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com

Sounds like you already have a receiver you can use to power the main speakers? So your budget just has to cover the main wide-range speakers plus either a powered sub or passive subs and an amp for them?

[/QUOTE]

well the amp i have for this is 200W, just for the two subwoofers and Extended Ranges. I know that in the end they'll be a little underpowered... but my only other option is to get seperate plate amps for the subwoofers (or at least one of them), if its in budget that is... not sure what plate amp i should get though.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[ahl395]

Just saw your second post now.

Here's an idea: If you connect the two voice coils of the Dayton in series instead of in parallel, you end up with 16 ohms instead of 4 ohms. That will be easy for your amp to drive. Also, if they're hooked up like that, they'll be able to take the full output from your 200W/8ohm amp without frying.

Maybe then you can use the 200W amp to power the full-rangers and the subs.

okay... sorry for being a beginner here but i dont understand what "in series" and "in parrallel" mean could you explain?

But yeah, 16 ohms would definetly be better if i could hook it up that way.

could you just explain how i would hook it up this way? greatly appreciated

 

[godfrey]

Like so:

If each coil is 8 ohms then series connection gives 16 ohms total and parallel connection gives 4 ohms total.

 

[Cokewithlime]

Honestly, from a price point if view, I think that you should just go with the AudioSource PSW112 12" Subwoofer it's on sale for $99 from now until the end of the year. It is a complete solution that you really could not build for less $$

You can't use your existing amp to drive the sub you where thinking of building directly - you would need either a sub crossover network that combines the L+R channels of your current amp and then also filters out all the frequencies above about 80Hz and then passes this signal onto the sub driver - or - buy a plate amp similar to what is in the AudioSource to perform this function, best value/price right now is this Dayton one which is on sale for $99.

Bottom line is that if you want to build a complete sub that works, it is going to cost you (in any event) more than $99 for the Audiosource - if you want to build something better than the Audiosource then you should budget in the $200 > $300 range

Just remember that for less than $200 you would get 2X complete Audiosource subs that are a simple plug in to what you already have - hard to beat from a DYI point of view - lol

 

[ahl395]

Honestly, from a price point if view, I think that you should just go with the AudioSource PSW112 12" Subwoofer it's on sale for $99 from now until the end of the year. It is a complete solution that you really could not build for less $$

You can't use your existing amp to drive the sub you where thinking of building directly - you would need either a sub crossover network that combines the L+R channels of your current amp and then also filters out all the frequencies above about 80Hz and then passes this signal onto the sub driver - or - buy a plate amp similar to what is in the AudioSource to perform this function, best value/price right now is this Dayton one which is on sale for $99.

Bottom line is that if you want to build a complete sub that works, it is going to cost you (in any event) more than $99 for the Audiosource - if you want to build something better than the Audiosource then you should budget in the $200 > $300 range

Just remember that for less than $200 you would get 2X complete Audiosource subs that are a simple plug in to what you already have - hard to beat from a DYI point of view - lol

Well i would like to try and avoid buying the AudioSource subwoofer... because i think two of the Dayton sub's would be better than one of those, right? (i cant buy two of the AudioSources)

I looked at some Sub Crossover networks... didnt know i need that But its alot cheaper than buying plate amplifiers...
How are these two?
http://www.amazon.com/PLXR2-Electronic-Subwoofer-Crossover-Network/dp/B0002BEWYM
Amazon.com: Legacy LXR1 Electronic Subwoofer Crossover Network: Electronics: Reviews, Prices & more
And with these, the amp i have now will power the subwoofers right? this will just filter out high frequencies?

buying those i could easily set up what i want for in my budget i think

 

[godfrey]

How are these two?
Amazon.com: PYLE PLXR2 Electronic Subwoofer Crossover Network with 12dB Bass Boost: Electronics: Reviews, Prices & more
Amazon.com: Legacy LXR1 Electronic Subwoofer Crossover Network: Electronics: Reviews, Prices & more
And with these, the amp i have now will power the subwoofers right? this will just filter out high frequencies?

Wrong sort of crossover. Those give low-level output, so you'd still need an amp.

 

[ahl395]

Wrong sort of crossover. Those give low-level output, so you'd still need an amp.

Well i have an amp, which id connect the crossover to with speaker wire (high-level?)

Could you show me the type of crossover i need with a high-level output?

How about these? they look like the right thing to me... (to me )
http://www.mavin.com/index.php/products/cerwin-vega-sub-woofer-200-watt-crossover
http://www.mavin.com/index.php/prod...r-crossover-network-sw12b---good-to-300-watts

And to quote your earlier posts thanks! i didnt know that was possible.

 

[godfrey]

You'd need a passive crossover. Probably expensive though, if you can find one, due to big coil(s) and capacitor(s).

edit: OK, you found some and they're not expensive

 

[ahl395]

You'd need a passive crossover. Probably expensive though, if you can find one, due to big coil(s) and capacitor(s).

edit: OK, you found some and they're not expensive

Hmm... ok.
Sorry just a little confused.

So i would buy two of these for each sub and hook the input up with speaker wire to my amp.
Then im guessing that the outputs also on the plate go to the tweeter/extended range (since it says high freq. output) and then the wires that come out of the back hook up to the sub?


Also, just a side question, could the Foster WF-100K subwoofer plate amplifier, on this page a little less than half way down, power one of my subs?
it says "115W into 4ohms, 80W into 8ohms".
first of all it doesnt list 16ohms like it would be if i hooked the sub up the way you showed me, so im not sure how many watts it could put out.
and doesnt that not make sense? i thought the more ohms, the more watts could be outputted?

thanks so far

 

[Cokewithlime]

Hmm... ok.
Sorry just a little confused.

So i would buy two of these for each sub and hook the input up with speaker wire to my amp.
Then im guessing that the outputs also on the plate go to the tweeter/extended range (since it says high freq. output) and then the wires that come out of the back hook up to the sub?


Also, just a side question, could the Foster WF-100K subwoofer plate amplifier, on this page a little less than half way down, power one of my subs?
it says "115W into 4ohms, 80W into 8ohms".
first of all it doesnt list 16ohms like it would be if i hooked the sub up the way you showed me, so im not sure how many watts it could put out.
and doesnt that not make sense? i thought the more ohms, the more watts could be outputted?

thanks so far

Yes absolutely, they are great little amps. Also a very good choice for the driver that you mentioned, if you connect the two coils of that driver in parallel then the Foster amp would be able to deliver it's full cpacity of 115W into that 4 ohm load.

The Foster sub amp is a better overall solution than using a passive network to drive the sub off of your main amp. All passive networks are lossy by their nature, and especially high level(speaker level) ones will lose(use up) some of the little power that you have available from your main amp in trying to drive the subs that way.

 

[ahl395]

Yes absolutely, they are great little amps. Also a very good choice for the driver that you mentioned, if you connect the two coils of that driver in parallel then the Foster amp would be able to deliver it's full cpacity of 115W into that 4 ohm load. The Foster sub amp is a better overall solution than using a passive network to driver the sub off of your main amp.

Okay! now i understand lol. was confused with the Ohms thing. I think thats definitely my best bet then.

I only have a few more questions about them, it says " low pass adjustable from 50-200Hz." does that mean the lowest frequency it goes is 50? because thats not very low for a subwoofer... 20 would be more like it no? I dont want this to cripple my sub... or do i have it wrong?

And a pretty important issue... is that i dont think ill be able to hook it up in parallel format...
If you look at this picture of the sub amp... it only has ONE negative and ONE positive. but to hook it up parallel i would need TWO of each. so with this i would have to hook it up the Series way... making it 16Ohms and this amp wont be able to provide enough power.

And LAST one lol, it says "0-180 degree phase switch"
what does that mean?? lol

thanks alot for your help! wasnt understanding before.

edit: ok i lied just one more lol, the ordering process seems complex and a bit risky/scammy for that site... which i was recommended from here (not sure if in this thread or my other), are you sure they are reliable and safe? and does the $10 fee you pay go towards your order or is it an additional fee?

 

[Cokewithlime]

I only have a few more questions about them, it says " low pass adjustable from 50-200Hz." does that mean the lowest frequency it goes is 50? because thats not very low for a subwoofer... 20 would be more like it no? I dont want this to cripple my sub... or do i have it wrong?

No, the word low pass says it all - only frequencies below the adjustable range from 50-200Hz will be allowed to the sub driver

And a pretty important issue... is that i dont think ill be able to hook it up in parallel format...
If you look at this picture of the sub amp... it only has ONE negative and ONE positive. but to hook it up parallel i would need TWO of each. so with this i would have to hook it up the Series way... making it 16Ohms and this amp wont be able to provide enough power.

The wiring diagram that godfrey posted earlier in this thread shows the correct parallel connection for the driver coils and the + In and - In then just connect to the speaker outputs of the Foster sub amp.

And LAST one lol, it says "0-180 degree phase switch"
what does that mean?? lol

It simply means that you can switch the phase of the sub to allow you to get the best bass results, most useful if you have multiple subs - this is done by you just listening to the working sub in your room and then choosing the setting which results in the best LF reproduction

edit: ok i lied just one more lol, the ordering process seems complex and a bit risky/scammy for that site... which i was recommended from here (not sure if in this thread or my other), are you sure they are reliable and safe? and does the $10 fee you pay go towards your order or is it an additional fee?

Don't worry Jack Hidley is very reputable and responsible and has sold to 100s of DIY people on these forums without any complaints - as to the $10 - Here is what Jack says about that right from his site
" This is a nonrefundable fee that gets credited towards your order total."

 

[ahl395]

No, the word low pass says it all - only frequencies below the adjustable range from 50-200Hz will be allowed to the sub driver

Ohhh okay! that makes alot more sense. lol

The wiring diagram that godfrey posted earlier in this thread shows the correct parallel connection for the driver coils and the + In and - In then just connect to the speaker outputs of the Foster sub amp.

Okay... gonna be a bit of a pain here... sorry lol

The picture shows the parallel method having TWO positive and TWO negative connections coming out of the amp. Does it not? That wont be possible on this amp...

The Series way is the one that shows only ONE negative and ONE positive coming out of the amp... right?

It simply means that you can switch the phase of the sub to allow you to get the best bass results, most useful if you have multiple subs - this is done by you just listening to the working sub in your room and then choosing the setting which results in the best LF reproduction

Ohh okay, ill have to play with that then when i get it.

Don't worry Jack Hidley is very reputable and responsible and has sold to 100s of DIY people on these forums without any complaints - as to the $10 - Here is what Jack says about that right from his site
" This is a nonrefundable fee that gets credited towards your order total."

[/QUOTE]

Okay! just wanted to check. thank you

 

[Cokewithlime]

Some times a picture is worth a lot of words see the following connection diagram for connecting the dual 8 ohm coils inside the sub in parallel (to get a total 4 ohm load) and then connected to the Foster sub amp.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[ahl395]

Some times a picture is worth a lot of words see the following connection diagram for connecting the dual 8 ohm coils inside the sub in parallel (to get a total 4 ohm load) and then connected to the Foster sub amp.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

okay wow that makes alot more sense lol, i didnt realize thats what that earlier diagram ment

thank you very much

my only last question, is those wires connecting the pos/neg connections on the two voice coils. they use special connectors on the ends, where do i buy those?
(although ive also just taken speaker wire and soldered them to those connections, im assuming thats not recommended lol)