You do realize this has a high chance of hit and miss? Of course I copied everything I could get my hand on until I discovered I also copied someone else's errors too 🙂
In his first post Bas indicated to need the line amp for a phono setup, which seems to make sense as not many phono preamps put out 2 VRMS.
Did that change?
Why so picky JP??
I'd add 8. to your post #57: "Sorry to be so picky....I just caught a bad day....".
Did that change?
Why so picky JP??
I'd add 8. to your post #57: "Sorry to be so picky....I just caught a bad day....".
He still will use his other source. Ask him. A stage just for upping the phono level would not be called a line stage. He also mentioned source selection and volume control. One does not use source selection with just 1 source... Therefor I thought to assist in having the blocks at the right places. If you check the specs you will see that there will be difference in volume when switching sources, something unsolved with the current way of doing things.
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That's why I found my 6p1p was a miss. And this one a hit (to me)...Yes I realize this. It has been the source of much misery and waste of resources (money)
Yes I'll still use my other source. But I found the pre to not make my system sound worse.
And since I have a linestage I could put the dac out of sofware volume control (Which I've been told is less than optimal).
And since I have a linestage I could put the dac out of sofware volume control (Which I've been told is less than optimal).
So I may conclude that I understood the setup right. Using software volume control is often less optimal (and even unnecessary/undesirable in many cases), that is correct but won't there be difference in volume? That could be solved by placing the blocks differently. The DAC does not need any extra stage and your power amplifier has enough gain as well? Then add the line stage behind the phono stage and then to the source selection. It will not alter/degrade/influence the DACs perfectly good signal and up the level of the phono so no difference in volume anymore. If the pre/line does not make the situation worse it also does not anything useful for the DACs signal except for useless amplifying does it? The DAC laughs at the 20 kOhm of the volume control and has high enough signal level. The phono probably does not laugh at 20 kOhm but maybe will laugh again with the added stage. After the source selection/volume potentiometer either the power amplifier or when really necessary a stage.
Win-win.
(Now if you would calculate the needed gain of the stage to amplify the exact output level of the phono stage to be equal to the output level of the DAC then you would have used real engineering to define required gain....and made the design do what is is supposed to do.)
Win-win.
(Now if you would calculate the needed gain of the stage to amplify the exact output level of the phono stage to be equal to the output level of the DAC then you would have used real engineering to define required gain....and made the design do what is is supposed to do.)
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So linestage after phono...and software attenuation for the dac? Could do. Could also add a pot after the phono and a pot after the dac. However I am planning monoblocks in the future and will have to drive longish leads...
But you know. Just like there are parameters. There are compromises (Never thought I would do that with audio/hifi but I constantly make them)
But you know. Just like there are parameters. There are compromises (Never thought I would do that with audio/hifi but I constantly make them)
No, no software volume control please. DAC to full output level. I am not interested to read ALL about that DAC but most DACs perform best at full output level. No audiophile will even consider to use software control is my experience as it is worse and we want "better". Reread my post to understand. Phono stage with line stage behind it to "phono" pins of source selector and DAC straight to "DAC" pins of source selector. After source selection volume control and then ................
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Ah yes. I get what you are saying. But the phono stage, come to think of it does not really need a linestage....it needs attenuation only. In essence I should have a passive preamp. Time to use my lightspeed for the first time? Or my intact autoformers or my tvc I've never used...
Are you seriously telling me now that your phono has high output level just like the DAC? 😀 I am head desking right now.
Attenuation even ?! Don't tell me it has equal or higher output level than the DAC 🙂 In that case you are amplifying already high level signals with a superfluous device for a mysterious purpose which I, as a solid state guy, probably never will understand. Let's call it "tube magic" 🙂 What you need is not a gain stage but a buffer then or like I already suspected a straight wire! The system of making a drawing and define what is needed wins again, Bas.
Have a nice evening!
Attenuation even ?! Don't tell me it has equal or higher output level than the DAC 🙂 In that case you are amplifying already high level signals with a superfluous device for a mysterious purpose which I, as a solid state guy, probably never will understand. Let's call it "tube magic" 🙂 What you need is not a gain stage but a buffer then or like I already suspected a straight wire! The system of making a drawing and define what is needed wins again, Bas.
Have a nice evening!
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This way you indicate to need a line stage for extra gain, not just to control volume.
It seems two moderators emeritus are spoiling their time 🙄🙄😀
For those not familiar with Dutch habits, this is just normal forum behavior in The Low Countries, where it spices the day 🙂
I was looking for a pic of Jochem Myjer where he mimics his young son saying "But I use a tape recorder, a cassette deck and a tube receiver!". But jokes aside, is there a standard in Audio Card output voltage?
I was looking for a pic of Jochem Myjer where he mimics his young son saying "But I use a tape recorder, a cassette deck and a tube receiver!". But jokes aside, is there a standard in Audio Card output voltage?
Attachments
Sort of. There are plenty of folks who have tried a passive preamp and find an active preamp better.
And it never crossed my mind that this thread would turn into the Spanish Inquisition. 😀
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That is the same as saying "Apple is better than pc's" or "Burr Brown is better than ESS".
All depends on parameters in given situations. With low value potentiometers and high impedance power amplifiers one has a hard time hearing a difference compared to the most neutral sounding topology for a buffer stage. In most cases with tube power amplifiers and modern (younger than 20 years) sources a 25 kOhm potentiometer is a good solution that colors way less than active circuitry. Note: for HiFi that is.
Most will use ready made sources like DAB+ tuners, DACs, SBC's and/or media players etc. These are built according a standard. The standard defines 10 kOhm as lowest load value so 25 kOhm is safe and adequate. No modern source will have any problem with that and no high impedance power amplifier with enough gain will have an issue with that either. It is 2021 after all where gain is almost exclusively for the power amplifiers.
All depends on parameters in given situations. With low value potentiometers and high impedance power amplifiers one has a hard time hearing a difference compared to the most neutral sounding topology for a buffer stage. In most cases with tube power amplifiers and modern (younger than 20 years) sources a 25 kOhm potentiometer is a good solution that colors way less than active circuitry. Note: for HiFi that is.
Most will use ready made sources like DAB+ tuners, DACs, SBC's and/or media players etc. These are built according a standard. The standard defines 10 kOhm as lowest load value so 25 kOhm is safe and adequate. No modern source will have any problem with that and no high impedance power amplifier with enough gain will have an issue with that either. It is 2021 after all where gain is almost exclusively for the power amplifiers.
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